Very sad news :( I no longer have my Atari collection.

[Zeus]

This just seems extremely strange. Something is fishy here.

[homerwannabee]

There is a possibility that this guy is a total ignorant moron.

imagine this situation,

Guy opens the storage shed hes sees a whole bunch video games and video game systems he looks around and says"what no playstation 2, this is all junk" he looks around a little further and sees alot of D&D stuff he either says"Only complete nerds like this stuff, all junk" or says"AAAh my preacher said this stuff is satanic I must burn it" He looks around and sees alot of figurings and says"No spiderman, all junk"

There are idiots out there who have no idea of the value of collectables especially stuff that is more specialized like you have.

[Goochman]

After reading all of this there has to be something that set this person off. Greg may or may not know what ignited his fuse but folks just dont act this way (excpet those in institutions )

 

WHo knows, maybe the Hot Water heater blew the first day they moved in and he got po'd - there is def something missing from this story......

[Gabriel]

I feel that something is missing from this story as well. However, I'm not inclined to disbelieve Greg Zumwalt's story. In fact, it is a distinct probability that the story is exactly as it is being told.

 

IMX, the vast majority of people on this planet are merely waiting for a chance to dick you over, especially when a situation like this presents itself.

 

In all likelihood Jason Wagner was looking for a way to weasel into a situation. The story makes Mr. Wagner sound like he appears out of the blue with neighbor recommendations. It seems as if Mr. Wagner sucked up enough to get what he wanted out of the arrangement.

 

That's what people like that do. They suck up just enough to get what they want, and then, after they've achieved their goal, they disregard or "forget" any agreements which weren't written in blood and notarized by God. They also tend to tell everyone to "fuck off" afterwards.

 

Looking at the alleged destroyed collection, there isn't much of anything in there a mainstream person would consider valuable. Even if Wagner did examine the collection, it is important to realize that such people really don't recognize value in things. If it doesn't have direct value to them, or have leverage on someone else, then it is worthless. And, I'm sorry to say that Wagner didn't need leverage on Greg Zumwalt. Wagner had already acquired what he wanted, the house, and needed nothing further. Therefore, the collection in the garage was merely junk taking up space. Because of this, it is extremely likely that all of it has been destroyed or is buried in a city dump somewhere.

 

I'd be wary of Mr Wagner having a relationship with someone on the State Police force. It's doubtful, but such a relationship would make this whole situation like a minefield.

 

Barring direct relations with authorities, people of the type I'm talking about can seldom effectively defend themselves legally. When confronted with authority, they tend to reveal themselves as the loons they are. The drawback is there likely won't be anything you get out of the situation. You'll tie yourself up in court for a very long time and tie money up in legal bills, and, in the end, you still won't get your items back and the person you're trying to get justice against will never pay you or will disappear from the face of the Earth (to pull the stunt against someone else).

 

In the end, you really have two options. You can forget the situation and move on with your life, which would be extremely difficult in this instance. Or you can pursue legal action against Jason Wagner and probably get nothing out of it other than financial strain and extreme inconvenience. About the only satisfaction you may get is that Wagner may end up having to pull up stakes and move to greener pastures.

 

Then again, people like what I think Wagner is don't have very good track records on actually paying their bills and things. So, it's likely they'd end up fleeing the area within a year or 2 anyway.

[Greg Zumwalt]

I had my first serious talk with the legal eagles yesterday.

The police did a search of the Wagners house but found nothing.

Wagner still is refusing to speak with them.

The court date has been set to October 23, 2004.

I have also been informed I have 1 year to replace anything to which I have roms. After 1 year, anything not replaced, I need to legally get rid of the roms... that includes the one of a kind.

The good news is, do to the nature of the loss, I can appeal the decision, and stand a good chance I will be able to keep what I have.

 

I have received a lot of help and support from those here and would just like to express how much I appreaciate all you've done.

[ATARI TROLL]

Greg PM me your addy?:

 

I have console vader or woody of your choice and I will send you few games if you want.

 

 

PS give me the arseholes names and I will deploy them to a nasty turd floating out in the pacific!

 

Cheers

[Greg Zumwalt]

Although not console related, a small ray of hope has presented itself.

 

A dice collector on the west coast recently came into possession of some very rare and unique dice.

They were obtained off E-bay (so glad I reported the stollen property to them so they could ignor it).

After reading a post I made in a collectors forum, the person contacted me.

They were quite vague in who they were, but after some talking, were convinced, they had indeed, bought my stollen dice.

Today, I received a package.

Not only were they the majority of my dice, they were still in the same storage box! (Its sort of like a treasure chest.)

The person did not even ask for compensation. So my many thanks goes out to them!

I have AGAIN, contacted E-bay with the stollen property list (for all the uselessness that is) and the police and insurance company.

This means, at least some of my property, was sold for profit, and not entirely destroyed.

Thus far, E-bay refuses to acknowledge WHO made that sale.

[MegaManFan]

Wow, the rabbit hole just goes deeper and deeper on this one. Greg, by the time you're through with these people and in tracking down your stuff (if ever) you'll be able to write a novel about the whole experience. And maybe you should - that's one way to recoup the cost, in personal satisfaction if not actual royalties from book sales.

[Rocko]

Although not console related, a small ray of hope has presented itself.

 

A dice collector on the west coast recently came into possession of some very rare and unique dice.

They were obtained off E-bay (so glad I reported the stollen property to them so they could ignor it).

After reading a post I made in a collectors forum, the person contacted me.

They were quite vague in who they were, but after some talking, were convinced, they had indeed, bought my stollen dice.

Today, I received a package.

Not only were they the majority of my dice, they were still in the same storage box!  (Its sort of like a treasure chest.)

The person did not even ask for compensation.  So my many thanks goes out to them!

I have AGAIN, contacted E-bay with the stollen property list (for all the uselessness that is) and the police and insurance company.

This means, at least some of my property, was sold for profit, and not entirely destroyed.

Thus far, E-bay refuses to acknowledge WHO made that sale.

 

Rare dice? I didnt know people collected dice. I do, but I thought I was the only one. Cool.

[Flojomojo]

As I see it, the moral of the story is: get everything in writing when you're dealing with strangers on a big contract like a house. They were legally justified in doing what they did; the property became theirs at the time of settlement, your verbal agreement with them was non-binding, and it will be difficult to prove otherwise in court.

 

That said, it's a shame about your collectable stuff and I wish you the best of luck.

[Myrmidon]

Hey Dude,

 

It sucks to lose one's stuff but to say:

 

From this day forth, let the name Wagner forever be like shit

on the lips of those who speak it.

 

is an insult almost as bad as the deed itself asshole.

 

Regards

Olaf Wagner

[taxman]

Not only were they the majority of my dice, they were still in the same storage box!  (Its sort of like a treasure chest.)

The person did not even ask for compensation.  So my many thanks goes out to them!

I have AGAIN, contacted E-bay with the stollen property list (for all the uselessness that is) and the police and insurance company.

This means, at least some of my property, was sold for profit, and not entirely destroyed.

Thus far, E-bay refuses to acknowledge WHO made that sale.

 

Have you tried searching the completed auctions on EBAY for to see if you can spot them in a picture?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Well...this isn't a good situation in the least. However, I don't see where legally Greg can do anything. My brother in law is a lawyer and I consulted him about this some time back. He stated that if you only had a verbal agreement on the situation, then legally, you were no longer entitled to anything on the property once the new owners moved in and began to occupy. In other words, they didn't live up to their word. Big deal to them as they know that legally nothing can really happen to them. Fact is, they aquired possesion of the land, and legally anything on it became theirs as well.

 

It is incredibly unfortunate that this happened and more unfortunate that you have now found some of the items on ebay. Cause this means he basically looking in the barn/shed whatever it was you had the stuff stored and saw some profit. He then came up with his stories about destroying it and has been actually selling it off for more money. The guy is scum in what he has done, but the hard fact of truth, is that he also isn't doing anything illegal either at this point.

 

I wish you all the luck on this Greg, I really do. But even my brother in law told me he wouldn't go near this as he finds it to be an instant lost case. Even if I were the one affected by it as you have been. The only thing you can pin on Wagner at this point is that he is a bad liar. Last I checked, you still coulnd't get arrested for that unless you were doing it in a court of law under oath.

 

Wagner didn't know about your collection before the move in did he? Because if you could prove he did know about it, then you might be able to get some motive and then turn it into a criminal case. Because if he knew about it before deciding the move into the place, then it could be used against him as intent to steal. Information like that is critical at this point and you need to compile and get it together quick to get your case up.

[Bruce Tomlin]

I hate to say this, but when I bought a house a couple of years back, I did bother to read the contracts. One part (of what must be a standard contract) said that anything left behind becomes the property of the buyer along with the house.

 

And a verbal agreement is pretty useless when there's no proof.

[sliceablekitty]

What is the upcoming court date for? A civil suit, criminal case, a municipal ticket?

 

Did you make a claim with your insurance company? How is that progressing?

 

I might be able to give you a few tips on this...

[taxman]

I think vigilanteism (sp?) is justifiable in this case.

[silverblt69]

For now...How about posting his Full name/address/heck...go with the phone number also!!!Really.......Serious.....He told you 2 not to come back on the property.........HE DIDN'T TELL THE "REST" OF US ON HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/b]

[Max-T]

Mr. Wagner, the loss of which you speak, and I believe truthfully so, is a heinous act yet one which is not unknown to me. When I was 18 years old, living in Texas, my grandmother, who lived in N. California passed away suddenly.

 

We did not have the money to fly to California, so it took us three days by car. By the time that my father (her youngest son) and the rest of us from Texas had arrived, her elder son (Stanley Clark) and his trophy wife "Barbie" (I have no idea if that was her real name -- she had a ridiculous looking breast enlargment and equally laughable attempts at facelifts) had taken away in several trips in a U-Haul trailer nearly all of my grandmother's possessions, except I guess neither of them were strong enough to lift the grand piano, for that was the only item left in the house.

 

My great-aunt (my grandma's sister) personally watched through her window nextdoor as my uncle and aunt-in-law stole these things, and I can't believe that she was able to live through what had to have been a heart attack for her to tell us about it. Items included several precious antique sets of China, numerous invaluable Native Panamanian pieces of art which she had collected while teaching school at the U.S. military base in Panama City, and various collections of photographs and family histories which she had compiled and had meant specifically for my father to own. Her 1969 yellow Dodge Charger was also mysteriously missing (an item which I, as a typical 18-year-old was anxious to even see, let actually be able to drive).

 

All of this theft happened literally under the nose of my helpless great-aunt, who is the sweetest lady in the world but unfortunately a deaf-mute. She saw what was going on during those three days of theft, yet it wasn't until my wing of the family arrived that she was actually able to express that to someone who could understand.

 

And, as their piece de resistance, Uncle Stan and "Aunt Barbie" managed to dispose of my grandmother's last will and testament, which she had made well know to all of us would be found in the nightstand next to her bed upon event of her death, and which had been drawn up well in advance with a local, hick-town law office. Whose law office, as a coincidence simultaneously misplaced their copy of her will. I don't know if Stan paid them Vicodin or in cash, but yet another crime resulted in that mysterious circumstance.

 

I later found out that my Dear Uncle owed her $50,000 in a loan that he had borrowed from her to start a pharmacy store in upscale Burlingame, CA, a ritzy satellite of San Fransico. A loan tried to have been kept secret from the rest of the family. So the mysterious vanishing act of the will erased the record of his debt to my family.

 

I do not want anyone to take pity on me or even let this concern them so much as Mr. Wagner's case, as this all transpired a decade ago. But I would like Mr. Wagner to know that there are others in positions similar to his, and I personally find his story a tragic and painful reminder of a chapter nearly forgotten in my life, but now re-examined, and again burgeoning like an ulcer on my conscience. And I am so very sorry for anyone who has been the victim of such an underhanded and cowardly crime such as those discussed here.

 

I wish, Mr. Wagner, that there were items I own in duplicate which i could send you to replace at least a tiny fraction of that which you lost, and to restore at least a little bit of your faith in human goodness. I wish that very much. Yet I have barely anything Atari, or otherwise retro-gaming, and I certainly never ventured into the realms of D&D or AD&D or pewter figurines or ingots.

 

I stabs at my heart every time I am forced to remember the treachery that my own Uncle performed upon my hapless family. Yes, i would have loved to have been given the Charger, which most certianly was written into the will as mine. But that is a selfish thought when I consider the ohotos, the scrapbooks, the journals and the art that my father's mother meant for him to have, yet which was looted in broad daylight in a neighborhood either too tired or too jaded to care.

 

What pains me more is that I have no doubt that dear Uncle Stan burned all that was combustible and not of monetary value. So decades of memories and thoughts were probably spent in a 50-gallon drum, accelerated by high-test gasoline (Uncle Stand drives race cars) and charred to the point of irrecognizability within seconds of his or his wife's toss of the match onto the pile.

 

My family will forever be missing that window into our history. We received literally nothing after two years worth of CA probate court hearings were thru with us. My father got her house, and the piano. And there was not a single item left in that house besides that great instrument.

 

My father had a mental breakdown during the plane trip home, and, I believe, very nearly suffered either a heart attack or a stroke. And he wasn't right for weeks after we got home.

 

And I knew what was going on, even I think before my parents realized it. But I had just turned 18 and weighed about 140 pounds. My brother was two years younger, though about the same size. Neither of us had the guts to stand up to our Uncle when both of my parents and my other grandmother were telling us to be quiet and stay out of the affairs.

 

But if Jerod and I had a chance to do it over again, I have the feeling that Stan's skin tone might be matching the fantasticly deep purple color which he painted his favorite Mustang. And Barbie (whom we all believed to be the master"mind" behind the whole affiar) might have her own perosnal insight into the allegedly poisonous nature of ruptured breast implants.

 

I'm sorry for writing such a long and bitter email which I'm sure 90% of have bailed on by this point. But Mr. Wagner's story brought back some very intense memories and emotions in me.

 

If anyone of you being to find yourself in a situation even just beginning to develop into a case similar to that of Mr. Wagner or of myself, I implore, seek the best legal help as fast you can. I know we all make cracks about lawyers, but there actually are certain times when the prudent use of their services can be a lifesaver.

 

Again, Mr. Wagner, you have my deepest sympathies. I wish that I could help you to rebuild that which was stolen from you, but, as I stated earlier, your collections and mine intersect at only a very few tangents. I can't really say that I might have anything you'd want.

 

But I do wish you the very best in luck in exacting vengeance(legal or not-so-legal) upon those who have tresspassed against you. If you and the Forum will forgive me what might be a ridiculous suggestion, if you live in a town with a television station which does "Trouble-Shooter" type stories every night on the news, I have seen them work wonders here in Texas. The more people who know about your story, the more pressure shall be exerted upon those who are the guilty party in this ridiculous charade.

 

I was hoping to bolster your confidence with a similar tale, yet forgive me if I have only wasted your time. But as the great Ted Nugent one said, you must fight tooth, fang and claw for what is rightly yours. And expressing your story on the net is a good first step, mind you. Keep pressing. And continue pressing so hard that those guilty will have no choice but cede to your authority.

 

Man, I'm so worked up now that I am ready to go kick some ass. Unfortuantely, I doubt we're in the same zip code. But operations can be planned, actions can be predicated, and I now am really, really pissed off at whoever stole all your collections.

 

I need to take a pill. But you have my support, moral, if nothing else that I can give. I am truly sorry for your losses.

 

Max T.

[Clock]

Although not console related, a small ray of hope has presented itself.

 

A dice collector on the west coast recently came into possession of some very rare and unique dice.

They were obtained off E-bay (so glad I reported the stollen property to them so they could ignor it).

After reading a post I made in a collectors forum, the person contacted me.

They were quite vague in who they were, but after some talking, were convinced, they had indeed, bought my stollen dice.

Today, I received a package.

Not only were they the majority of my dice, they were still in the same storage box!  (Its sort of like a treasure chest.)

The person did not even ask for compensation.  So my many thanks goes out to them!

I have AGAIN, contacted E-bay with the stollen property list (for all the uselessness that is) and the police and insurance company.

This means, at least some of my property, was sold for profit, and not entirely destroyed.

Thus far, E-bay refuses to acknowledge WHO made that sale.

 

If this case is going to court then the id of the seller is an important part of the investigation and evidence. Ebay will have to give details to the law as it can not with hold any information which may affect the out come of a legal case or indeed the investigation of a possible crime.

 

I would therefore say that this is a huge peice of news and hopefully it will lead to more information to support your case.

 

Personally I don't think he is selling the stuff himself, I believe he has sold the whole lot to a clearence company and they are selling the individual items.

[Brad2600]

Max-T,

 

It was Greg who got the collection stolen from him..not Mr.Wagner.

 

Just thought I'd clear it up.

[SimonTemplar]

This is none of my business but this story seems a little weird to me ; why would anyone leave thousands of $ worth of collectibles in a shed and just leave ?

[davidbrit2]

I say it's time to contact your friendly neighborhood mafia branch office. Tell them to bring a video camera with them.

[Atari Charles]

Sorry to hear about your loss. I'd be totally ticked off if that happened to me. All I can suggest is you don't let this rest. The only way you'll get over this is to fight for what you believe is right. Pursue this via legal channels and of course TV channels. It was totally wrong what he did. You should be vindicated.

 

I've learned that with my stuff: Atari, music related gear, photo albums, etc. is that I would never trust anyone to store it for me. Too many things can happen and too many complications can arise(even so small as; "Oh, I thought it would be alright to store your music gear in the cold and damp separated garage" etc.) I would spend the extra money and rent a storage unit in a pro-level facility and get the stuff insured. Yes, it would be more expensive but worth it.

 

You have to remember all of this stuff is just stuff afterall. You should fight for what you believe is right. You may not get a lot of cash out of this guy, but you can make this guy's life hell if you pester him enough with lawsuits and bad publicity. That's what I'd do. No need to stoop to his level. Bad to say and Iknow I am going to get flamed for this, but if he is unstable, maybe you can drive him to the loony-bin permanently once and for all.

 

My personal thoughts about collectibles based on 20th centure life. The best place for any rare peice is a museum. They can look after the item much better than you or I could. I've donated and sold a few things to museums(non-atari related) as my wish to insure the continued existance of rare items beyond my lifetime. Perhaps at some point enough people will recongnize the inherent value of Atari and such systems as they were a big part of 1980's North American Life.

 

Side note: I used to have a huge collection of D&D stuff. I had all the hardcovers. All the boxed sets from first edition and basic, tons of modules, etc. I ended up selling most of it for more than I paid for it as I developed new interests, I could make some money on the sale, and I felt my collection would be better suited to people who had more of an interest in D&D than I did.

 

I wouldn't try and rebuy everything that you had as that would probably take the a very very long time and there are better ways to spend your time. I would just focus on you favorite hobbie that you are into currently(it could even be a new hobbie) and collect or focus on that. If Atari is your favorite, then buy a complete system and slowly collect you favorite games. No need to try and collect the whole series, but just buy the ones that mean the most to you.

 

Even in my own life, I realize that when I have kids, they may or may not be into what I am into. I understand and accept that. Just like I am not really into what my parents were into when they were alive. I kept a few things life Family albums and soem paintings but sold the rest. I'm sure my kids will do the same thing to me when I am gone. They may think Atari games are pure junk(kind of how I think about those old 1950's pinball machines). If they aren't into it, maybe by the time I reach old age, Atari gear will be sought after by museums or rich colelctors in Germany, who knows. I'll find the appropriate home for my stuff when that day comes.

 

Yes, I rambled a bit, but hopefully this helps.

 

Atari Charles

[sku_u]

They were obtained off E-bay (so glad I reported the stollen property to them so they could ignor it).

 

Unfortunately, they will likely continue to ignore you because the property is not considered stolen. Once a property is sold and closed, the previous owner has a set amount of time that is agreed to in writing at closing to retrieve their property. After that, any personal property is considered abandoned and the new owner of the property can then do whatever (s)he chooses to do with the old property.

 

You can try to sue, file police reports, etc..., but the new owner will win because (s)he is protected by the law.

 

It totally sucks that you lost all that property, and I'd also be pissed off and want retribution in your shoes, but as the law currently stands, the new property owner and not you is protected by the law. (S)he can list everything on that property for sale if (s)he wants to.

 

If I were in your shoes, I'd go after the person who handled your closing for negligence since that person obviously didn't follow the letter of the law and draw up a written contract or hold-harmless clause in your behalf at closing.

 

If you haven't already, contact http://www.clarkhoward.com/ and tell him your entire story. He has a nationwide AM radio show and will do everything he can to help you and advise you in any way he can.

[sly]

Do you have some sort of list of what rarities you had? It may help to recover your stuff.