Kroko Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 This is the first version of my flash-cartridge prototype: Is supports 1K,2K and 4K, F8, F8SC,F6, F6SC, F4, F4SC, FA, E0 and finally 3F up to 512K The rom images are downloaded from the PC with a serial cable. Before I can realease this device, I would like to get a bit of feedback on a few subjects: I need a name for this device :-) Any suggestions are welcome .... I don't have a cheap source for empty atari cartridge cases. Is anybody able to help me with getting cheap empty cases ? I thought about one million copies of ET... or so I am a terrible artist (most engineers are ...hehe). Would you like to help me to design a nice label ? What is the label material and who can print them ? There is a bit of empty space on the CPLD. I have also working VHDL Code for CV,FE,F0 and E7 (Rom only) bankswitching. But I don't want to actually program it into the CPLD. I would like to use the empty space a bit differently: We have a 128K SRAM chip. I would like this RAM to be available for programming. In theory I could enhance the 3F bankswitching to support RAM. We could call it 3F+. 128K/256 that would be 256 blocks of RAM each with a size of 512Bytes which would be mapped into the first 1K of the cartridges address space. (512 bytes write port and 512 bytes read port). A write to 3F selects a 2K Rom slice into the first 2K of the cartridge. A write to 3E could select a 512Byte RAM slice into the first 1K of the cartridge. So the first 1K could be either ROM or RAM, dependent on what address you were last writing to (3E or 3F). What do you programmers think about this. Would this RAM-Slice size be good, or should I make it smaller, lets say 256 slices of 256Byte ..... And finally, how much money would you be willing to pay for this ? I have to compare this number with the material price and decide if it make sense to continue. At the moment I am not sure what to do. Either build a few units myself or releasing the whole thing open source and somebody else can build a larger number of them. Kroko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maibock Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 wow nice work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
povlok1 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 awsome;) how hard would it be to make a USB version?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjk7382 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Although it can't compete with the CC1, this looks like the next best thing (for the 2600) I am sure the people that can't afford a CC2 and just want to play 2600 games will like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted February 2, 2004 Author Share Posted February 2, 2004 Unfortunately I have no idea how to support USB. If you really need USB, there are a few serial to USB converters out there .... And please don't compare it to the CC its simply very different from both CC1 and CC2. Its more or less a development cart for the programmers. Of course you can also use it just for fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vb_master Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 how much will it cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted February 2, 2004 Author Share Posted February 2, 2004 Sorry I don't know yet. I didn't calculate a price because its not a finished product yet. But I guess the current design could be made for less than 100 Euro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I need a name for this device :-) Any suggestions are welcome .... Never ask for a name! People will concentrate on flooding you with names then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted February 2, 2004 Author Share Posted February 2, 2004 Hey Thomas, I was hoping for a comment on 3F+ bankswitching from you :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian M Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 And finally, how much money would you be willing to pay for this ? I have to compare this number with the material price and decide if it make sense to continue. At the moment I am not sure what to do. Either build a few units myself or releasing the whole thing open source and somebody else can build a larger number of them. Depending on how well it works, I'd say my price point would be about $125 - $150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Hey Thomas, I was hoping for a comment on 3F+ bankswitching from you :-) Well, what can I say...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjk7382 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I need a name for this device :-) Any suggestions are welcome .... Never ask for a name! People will concentrate on flooding you with names then. How about cavecopter or heli tunnel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheldon Sims Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 I need a name for this device :-) Any suggestions are welcome .... Flash Cart A2600 A2600 Flash Cart Flash Cart VCS VCS Flash Cart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveW Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Why is it nobody will make a USB version of these type of things? They're always PC serial devices. Like the SIO/PC for the Atari 8-bit line, or the Intellicart. They're always so PC-centric. While we Mac users are left out in the cold . . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Although it can't compete with the CC1, this looks like the next best thing (for the 2600) I am sure the people that can't afford a CC2 and just want to play 2600 games will like this. Excuse me? It's way better than a CC1. 512K ROM, 128K RAM, serial download?! This is the most perfect development system I could ask for. My personal opinion is that these should sell like hot-cakes, and come in at around US$150 each. Cheers A PS: I'm first in line for one, and they should be called the "Krokodile Cart" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susuwatari Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 How were you able to handle SC bankswitching scheme? As I understand, the original ROM that handles SC is still copyrighted and it's the reason CC stopped production long ago, the right to produce CC with SSC software expired. The project also reminded me of an old project someone did called Bankzilla which can handle every bankswitching scheme. Any connection? As for why Serial is used over USB, it's because serial is simplier. You can duirectly connect to the serial port and use a muliplexer to convert 8 1-bit data to single 8 bit for the rest of the hardware. Computer doesn't care what's connected to the serial port, it's entirely up to the software to handle that. USB OTOH is very talkative and establishes itself as soon as it's connected to the computer. The computer is then expected to load a driver to make it work and coding driver tended to be trickier than stand alone software. Extra hardware would also be required on that flash cart to handle USB protocol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cschell Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Can I ask some technical questions out of curiousity? It appears this is powered by a separate DC adapter and programmed outside of the 2600, correct? Can it also be programmed in system? Can the DC power to the cart be connected while it is plugged into the 2600, or are the two power buses shorted together? What's the baud rate on the serial port, and what's the programming time on the flash part? Have you considered ways of cost reducing it? I understand why you would want to skip SC support in a flash cart, but why not support E7? Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 What would be cool is if 2600 programs could both send and receive data through the serial port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smf_4ever Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Hmmm. I dont have a name yet (atleast not anything good... except.. maybe... "Miracle" If it helps.. I have like 15 common carts I can send to help with cases.. I would easily drop atleast $100 on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybastard Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 I'd pay $100 for it easy. I also think you should call it, "Johnny Cart". Using the name Johnny with products has a long tradition and it's kind of funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpbucket Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Call it "Flashdor the Cartinator" Then you could call the program to download ROMs "Cartinator" and you can sing "Cartinating the videogame" while you download it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Here's a name: The Burninator . Well, you do burn the EPROMS . EDIT: Lump, you beat me to it . Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted February 3, 2004 Author Share Posted February 3, 2004 USB needs a dedicated USB chip which is more expensive and more complicated. In addition an eprom is needed to store device info. I am not aware of any non-smd parts, and I am not going to use SMDs. The driver stuff wouldn't be the problem because they are shipped with the chips. I thought about it, but decided to make it standard serial. SC is superchip. I am not aware that there are any license issues with that. I can not support arcadia because the CPLD is too small. I used the biggest non-smd version which is 108 macrocells. As far as I know, the license was necessary because of the audio transmission and because Chad used their code. Superchip is very easy to implement. I have never heard of "Bankzilla", what is that ? The power supply is external. There is no connection to the VCS 5V supply. Only ground is connected. You can download files even if the VCS is switched on. But the risk of transmission errors is higher and I recommend to switch the VCS power off, when a new ROM is transmitted. You will have to do that anyway, to start the game :-) The device has ISP headers, so the firmware can be upgraded via ISP programming, but not via serial download. The DC power has to be connected any time, its the only power source available. But a standard 6V dc supply is all you need. The serial port runs at 115kbps. "FuKung 512K demo" needs 1 minute for transmission and programming. An average 8K ROM-File about 1 second :-) Cost reducing is hard. I would if i had any more ideas. Maybe you can help, Chad. I need a µC which I am able to programm in assembler (AVR). It needs an UART, lots of IO-Lines at has to run @11MHz. I chose the cheapest part available here (non-smd). The SRAM is the only SRAM i can handle. I tried other parts but they didn't work as I wanted so I will use the 128K chip. The CPLD is almost too small, so i can't choose a smaller one. Serial transmission is done by the max232. Very cheap solution, can't make it cheaper ..... Do you have any ideas to reduce costs ? I would be very interested. E7 is not used by a lot of games. I could support it, but space on the CPLD is limited. I like the idea, to support a BS scheme with 128K of RAM available for the programmer. If I will not support the RAM then most likely I will support E7. Serial transmission from the VCS cart to the PC ? Sounds very cool ... I will think about that :-) What would you want to do with that feature ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK WOMBLE Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 I don't have a cheap source for empty atari cartridge cases. Is anybody able to help me with getting cheap empty cases ? I thought about one million copies of ET... or so Not entirely sure where your located, but you mention euros, so probably not too far. I'll send you a load of crappy 2600 carts for free if you cover the postage on them. (But you'll have to peel off the labels and pull the pcb's yourself as I dont really have the time ) Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted February 3, 2004 Author Share Posted February 3, 2004 Very cool, thank you ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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