classics Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Here is my conversion of Atari XL/XE Crystal Castles. There was another version that was a restricted demo of some sort so I just ported the regular XL/XE cartridge. Enjoy Steve crystalcastles5200.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Nice Has anyone tested this with a trackball yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Nice Has anyone tested this with a trackball yet? Doesn't work with either a trak-ball or a Competition Pro, only with a regular analog stick and not very well. Doesn't crash though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Nice Has anyone tested this with a trackball yet? Doesn't work with either a trak-ball or a Competition Pro, only with a regular analog stick and not very well. Doesn't crash though. That's a bummer. Hopefully Clay's TB-frienly version will come out someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Works fine with my analog joystick... whats the problem with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Works fine with my analog joystick... whats the problem with it? Crystal Castles just isn't Crystal Castles without Trakball capability. I just tried the game in emulation. Control is very difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Control is very difficult. That's what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 I thought he meant that joystick input didnt work correctly. Anyone know how the 5200 trackball sends its input? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Anyone know how the 5200 trackball sends its input? From another thread, I don't know how accurate this statement is: The 5200 trakball is the tool of the devil. It's just a crufty design. In order to make the trakball "compatible" with joystick games (and thus to avoid any software changes for already released games) the trakball functions like a "virtual" joystick. As you spin the ball, a current (somewhat, sorta, roughly, almost) like the one controlled by the potentiometer in the 5200 controller is fed to the 5200. The faster you spin the ball, the farther the "joystick" tilts. On a "real" trakball (like a Missile Command or Centipede arcade game) the trakball outputs digital pulses in quadrature-- the game board sees a distinct number of "steps" in a certain direction as a result of the ball spinning. Nice and crisp, smooth input... The 5200 trakball's output is a spastic approximation of an auto-centering joystick being "slapped" as the game is played. It's "trakball-like", but nothing like the fine control you might otherwise expect. -Clay However, if this is 100% true then every 5200 game should theoretically work with a trackball, which is definitely not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Anyone know how the 5200 trackball sends its input? Some explanation and how it relates to CC here I think... http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.p...er=asc&start=27 I fought with the 5200 Trakball for a LONG time trying to get something "good enough" for Crystal Castles. The problem is that the 5200 TB emulates a joystick. When it's at rest the stick is 'centered'. When you spin to the right, the virtual joystick 'tilts' to the right. If you spin faster the 'joystick' moves farther. On a real arcade game, a trakball is an encoder-- it tells you the direction and the number of pulses moved. It's just like a mouse on a PC. (Except it's upside down.) The problem gets to be with how the Crystal Castles code works and how the trakball is read. CC, being for the Atari 8-bits, was designed for digital joystick inputs. The method that Bentley moves is rather intimately tied to the games main timing loop. There are lots of checks performed with Bentley's position as the game 'updates' his position based on input. (On a gem? On an enemy? On the path? On an elevator? etc...) Since the code is always expecting Bentley to move only one 'delta' at a time this works dandy. If however you try to move Bentley *more* than one unit at a time (like if you're trying to approximate a fast trak-ball spin) the collision detectors can break-- you'll pass over gems, through enemies, etc. To make matters worse, animation frames are triggered by seeing sequential position values, skipping over any makes Bentley skip animation frames. One thing that *does* work is to slow down the movement summing. Right now I have two speeds for Bentley depending on how far you move the joystick. If you need to do something tricky you can tilt the joystick less than half way and he'll walk along slowly. If you tilt the joystick farther he moves at regular (full) speed. This same technique with the trakball however, sucks. The 5200 trakball is really low resolution. You can give the trakball a mighty spin and the "joystick" will seem to move pretty far-- for a fraction of a second. What it boils down to is that for 'small' movements the trakball circuitry is really spastic (twitchy outputs), so you can only rely on larger values to get out of the noise. However, in order to get at the larger values the player has to spin that trakball a LOT. It's just not much fun to play that way. (In all fairness, I also think that the trakball motion in Missile Command and Centipede is totally horrible. But again I'm an arcade guy primarily so I might just be being snooty.) So, in the 5200 Crystal Castles I *could* leave the trakball support in, but I think it's pretty pitiful. I'd almost rather take the flak for "why isn't there trakball support?" than "why does trakball support suck?". -Clay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 If it simulates joystick input I may just have the joystick movement thresholds set too high. If it doesnt work with a digital stick thats likely the cause too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 I thought it turned out that Clay's trackball was FUBAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 I thought he meant that joystick input didnt work correctly. Anyone know how the 5200 trackball sends its input? Here you go buddy, hurry up and download it because I am gonna delete it afterwards. http://www.cpuwiz.com/images/TrakBall%20Guide.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 Got it, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Hmmmm....works fine control-wise using Atari800 win and MESS... C'mon CPU, get it to work with a trackball! Awesome game though....another really well done arcade port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Steve, I released the original 16K 1984 version of Crystal Castles a long time ago, why not convert that version over to the 5200, its fully playable. Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted February 14, 2004 Author Share Posted February 14, 2004 Curt, Where can I download that? I looked up your posting but the link to your site with the rom is broken. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 crystal.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Thanks CPU... Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted February 14, 2004 Author Share Posted February 14, 2004 Seems the same except its impossible to die and there are no little songs played between the levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-in-NJ Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Hey you guys, if the game could be made to work with either a Trak-ball or digital stick (my only 5200 controllers), I'd jump at buying a cartridge of this like a shot, even though I've never seen a screen shot. I just got 2600 Crystal Castles last week as part of an eBay lot too :wink: Any chance of making this as a sort of reproduction cartridge? I don't own a computer so ROM downloads just don't do it for me! (Before you all ask, I'm using a 7-1/2+ year-old WebTV. I like my old technology!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Very nice work but what about a port of the updated XE version from 1988? Or is the game too big? You can download the image on our site. -- Atarimania http://www.atarimania.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 Very nice work but what about a port of the updated XE version from 1988? Or is the game too big? You can download the image on our site. Looks interesting, that must be the correct rom for the 'updated' version. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Looks interesting, that must be the correct rom for the 'updated' version. Would be interesting to compare the proto and the official XE release. BTW, the 1988 version has the warp feature. -- Atarimania http://www.atarimania.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.