Why I think E.T. is great

[privateers69]

Everyone I knew thought Pac-Man sucked, but I played it anyway for a while since my parents payed full price for it as soon as it came out.

 

Funny you say that. I did the same thing with Pac_man because my Mother went out and bought it for us as a suprise the day it came out. I always felt bad about that, and to this day I still do.

 

Yes, I felt bad too since my mother had also brought it she paid for it ahead of time (reserved copy) at a local Murphys mart

[Bryan]

Atari also screwed themselves by jacking up the price of the cart. ET was the first console game with a $49.99 retail price, unheard of at the time.

 

True... It wasn't until much later that "big" games could command such a price. Atari's price tag essentially set expectations very high, that this was the holy grail of games. Their heads were in the clouds with the power of the ET franchise.

 

It seems like you've observed some Atari games significantly improved, and concluded that therefore ALL Atari games can be significantly improved. If this isn't a perfect example of specious logic, I don't know what is.

 

Could Ms.Pac-Man have really been improved with existing technology? Sure Atari could have added a 64K chip or second processor or a magic elf who makes the "waka waka" sound, but who the hell would pay a hundred dollars or more for the cart?

 

Sounds like you need to debate ZylonBane as to whether your MsPac upgrade ideas would produce a better game. Does someone want the 1st real example of a possible improvement? It could have had intermissions (probably making it a 16K cart). Not that I think it should have (not knowing the specific economics of it all), but there is one example of a way to improve it.

 

-Bry

[NovaXpress]

For the price of ET one could have purchased Pitfall and Megamania both, those games were selling for $25-30 at the time. Is it possible the the hefty price tag for ET caused parents to seriously think about how much they were spending on games? This could have driven them to buying cheaper third party games of dubious quality. If they follow up an ET purchase with a Racquetball and a Word Zapper, there are some unhappy kids in the house not playing their games. This causes parents to stop buying them.

 

I think the inarguable fact about ET is that it simply wasn't what consumers wanted. Spielber's initial idea of a Pac-Man knockoff would probably have sold a lot better. For $39.99.

 

As far as Zylon goes, I don't see how he was rude in this instance. This board is about sharing classic gaming knowlege and that is exactly what he did.

[Bryan]

As far as Zylon goes, I don't see how he was rude in this instance. This  board is about sharing classic gaming knowlege and that is exactly what he did.

 

It's easy to assume that his tone is condescending. I think things started going downhill with:

 

So in other words, you have no idea how.

 

I'd love to see wrestlers argue about Atari stuff with chairs flying, eyes bulging, veins popping and all that, "You think you can improve MsPacMan??? I'll see you in the ring! That's right, Logic Man's gonna make a house call!"

 

-Bry

[ZylonBane]

He asked a question designed to make cavelevel look dumb.

Hey now! My first question was as simple, direct, and uncolored by overtone as the English language allows. One word, the bookend to the journalist's pentumvirate of inquiry-- "How?"

 

It was only when this simple question caused him to immediately spiral into a maelstrom of hemming and hawing and tap-dancing and hand-waving that my baser instincts took over and I just had to have a little fun with him. Even so, you have to admit I've been restrained compared to some of the stuff I've spewed on here. An occasional light poke with a stick seems sufficient to keep cavelevel lathered up.

 

Anyway, I do think Ms. Pac-Man could be improved... just not in any ways that would substantially improve the gameplay visuals. With increased ROM and RAM you could add intermissions, a full attract mode, two-player mode, a less harsh-sounding music driver, implement the "pass through ghost if mouth closed" trick, port the AI routines from the arcade code, and maybe even jimmy the kernel to support digital sound playback.

[Bryan]

He asked a question designed to make cavelevel look dumb.

Hey now! My first question was as simple, direct, and uncolored by overtone as the English language allows. One word, the bookend to the journalist's pentumvirate of inquiry-- "How?"

 

Yeah, but then you told him that he was wrong to assume it was possible. I'll grant you that cavelevel was probably guessing and didn't have a specific method in mind but if you agree that it could have been better why not agree with him rather than make him look ignorant?

 

It was only when this simple question caused him to immediately spiral into a maelstrom of hemming and hawing and tap-dancing and hand-waving that my baser instincts took over and I just had to have a little fun with him. Even so, you have to admit I've been restrained compared to some of the stuff I've spewed on here. An occasional light poke with a stick seems sufficient to keep cavelevel lathered up.  

 

Comparatively, yes...it was restrained. Baser instincts, huh... Stick poking combined with a lathered cavelevel is an amusing picture.

 

Anyway, I do think Ms. Pac-Man could be improved... just not in any ways that would substantially improve the gameplay visuals.  With increased ROM and RAM you could add intermissions, a full attract mode, two-player mode, a less harsh-sounding music driver, implement the "pass through ghost if mouth closed" trick, port the AI routines from the arcade code, and maybe even jimmy the kernel to support digital sound playback.

 

(you forgot Nova's magic elf) I agree that the visuals are about all you can do. Maybe with serious kernel insanity you could round off a corner or two, and it would be possible to change the color of the dots from the walls in places, but I doubt it would work everywhere.

 

So, in conclusion, that's why I think ET is great.

 

-Bry

[ZylonBane]

if you agree that it could have been better, why not agree with him, rather than make him look ignorant?

Because I genuinely wanted to know what it was about Ms. Pac-Man that he didn't like. And for some bizarre reason he refused to say.

[+Random Terrain]

It was only when this simple question caused him to immediately spiral into a maelstrom of hemming and hawing and tap-dancing and hand-waving that my baser instincts took over and I just had to have a little fun with him. Even so' date=' you have to admit I've been restrained compared to some of the stuff I've spewed on here. An occasional light poke with a stick seems sufficient to keep cavelevel lathered up. [/quote']

 

The word "how" by itself can be seen in any tone if there is no emoticon next to it, so it could have been an accusing "how" such as, "Oh yeah? How?!! You tell me exactly how you would make the game better because my big brother spent a long time programming that game and he is a genius, so you tell me exactly how you would make the game better, you tiny brained piece of garbage!" I also have the experience of reading some of ZylonBane's posts in various other threads and what I've seen has usually been negative, so I was expecting him to be in "pounce mode" no matter what I said. Ignoring all of that, I still don't see anything wrong with my first reply, even if the "how" was an innocent question:

 

How?

 

How do you think? You should be able to come up with "how" on your own. Even back then' date=' some companies were making games that looked better than the blocky, flickering crap that Atari usually cranked out. Haven't you noticed how many games by Atari were primitive looking compared to games made by a few other companies?

 

Have you seen some of the hacks of recent years? Sure, they have more time now to play around improving games with no pressure and time limits, but it shows that many games [b']could [/b]have been better. That shouldn't be hard to understand. There's almost always a way a game could have been better. Here's a related quote:

 

...I genuinely wanted to know what it was about Ms. Pac-Man that he didn't like. And for some bizarre reason he refused to say.

 

I don't believe that' date=' but I already mentioned in another thread and above that I can't remember unless I put the game in to refresh my memory and write things down as I'm playing and I'm not going to do that to satisfy some stranger in a forum. And why would ZylonBane "genuinely" want to know what I think about Ms. Pac-Man? I think that's bizarre. Who cares? I don't even care what I think about Ms. Pac-Man.

 

Take a look at these:

 

...my baser instincts took over and I just had to have a little fun with him.

 

An occasional light poke with a stick seems sufficient to keep cavelevel lathered up.

 

From scanning various posts by ZylonBane, that seems to be his usually way of interacting with just about everyone, so ZylonBane will be added to my ignore list. Let him poke other people with a stick, I don't have any more time for it.

[ZylonBane]

I believe every game ever made could be improved in some way, even if it's as simple as changing the graphics a bit, such as making the dragons in Adventure not look like ducks.

Okay, so just to make sure I'm understanding you here-- you stated uncategorically that Ms. Pac-Man could be better, yet had absolutely nothing specific in mind. It was not a comment on Ms. Pac-Man so much as it was a comment on every video game ever written. Yet, you phrased it as if you were specifically referring to Ms. Pac-Man.

 

Yes, all video games can be better. Video games are created by humans, and humans are imperfect, therefore nothing any human creates will be perfect. So if I'm interpreting you correctly, your statement was universal and therefore meaningless as applied to any specific game.

[hatster]

in answer to the original original question I liked ET because my best friend designed it. I actually never really played it much. Yars was much more fun. But then I'm strange, my other favorites were pacman, space invaders, and superman and considering this how this conversation is going, I'm likely to get flamed. Very strange bird, I am...

 

(I am the other hsw)

[+Random Terrain]

I liked ET because my best friend designed it.

If you really know Howard Scott Warshaw, please let him know that there are many people out here who like E.T. Please thank him for adding a good dose of randomness instead of making a game like so many others that you play once, throw over your shoulder, and then reach for the next game.

 

 

...I'm likely to get flamed.

Don't worry, most people around here are as nice as nice can be. If someone starts flaming you or stalking you, just click the ignore button and you won't have to deal with them.

[hatster]

Howard and I have been friends since we were kids and we share initials (so it was cool to find my initials in his games )

 

Yes I will let him know and probably encourage him to drop in here once or twice when he can find a moment.

 

Having said that, I'll admit that when I first played ET I didn't know it was Howard's game (we had lost touch for about two very important years) and I also was thrown by the pits. But it was no worse than many others and considering the production time frame, it wasn't that bad! I think that if it hadn't been hyped to the nth degree, it may have had a chance.

 

Anyway, yes I'm a newbie here so thanks for the tips!

[+Random Terrain]

Yes I will let him know and probably encourage him to drop in here once or twice when he can find a moment.

That would be nice if he found the time to drop by one day. I have a page where I list as many web sites as I can that belong to classic game designers/programmers and his site is one of the few that I can find by an Atari 2600 programmer/designer. I wish more Atari 2600 game designers/programmers had web sites. There are so many things they could share. Here's that page I mentioned:

 

http://www.randomterrain.com/gamedesign/classic.html

 

 

Having said that, I'll admit that when I first played ET I didn't know it was Howard's game (we had lost touch for about two very important years)...

It would be cool to play an Atari 2600 game made by someone you knew without knowing it, then find out the truth later.

 

 

...I also was thrown by the pits.  But it was no worse than many others and considering the production time frame, it wasn't that bad! I think that if it hadn't been hyped to the nth degree, it may have had a chance.

It is amazing that it was made so quickly while still being a pretty darn good game along with the hidden stuff he added which you might think he wouldn't have time for. When I first played the game, I wondered why the wells would be such a major part of the game since I didn't remember seeing any wells in the movie, but I got over it and just accepted the game the way it was and had fun. It was a lot more fun and replayable than many of the other games I had. Although you may see hateful articles and reviews about the game all over the internet, there are at least some of us out here who are glad HSW made E.T. It was freakin' strange and frustrating at first, but it became one of my favorite games.

 

 

Anyway, yes I'm a newbie here so thanks for the tips!

Thanks for joining. You'll probably love it since most people are so nice and helpful. I'm not kidding, it's usually like an "Up with People" group hug around here. It shouldn't be hard to "avoid the Noid."

[hatster]

I wish more Atari 2600 game designers/programmers had web sites. There are so many things they could share. Here's that page I mentioned:

http://www.randomterrain.com/gamedesign/classic.html

 

Well thanks for the link! I'll be adding it to the link list on hsw's newly fixed up Once Upon Atari site (since that is one of my current functions and why I began surfing the atari forums of late). I notice you link to his personal page. That is on the list for redesign and probably will move to his scottw.com domain soon--that is if I quit surfing and start designing .

[hatster]

oops sorry about the second post but I said:

 

Well thanks for the link! I'll be adding it to the link list on hsw's newly fixed up Once Upon Atari site (since that is one of my current functions and why I began surfing the atari forums of late).  

 

Well, you had already made the list! I just fixed the title so it looks like you

[Gamemaster_ca_2003]

If Atari had kidnapped a young Paul Slocum and forced him to work on 2600 games, Atari would be the only videogame company left in the world today. :)

 

    -Bry

 

No way atari would not be the only one but it will be the best in the world today.

[+Random Terrain]

I notice you link to his personal page. That is on the list for redesign and probably will move  to his scottw.com domain soon...

OK, I changed the link to http://scottw.com/ but I also created a second link next to it that points to http://pw1.netcom.com/~hsw/hsw.html under "Personal Page" (until it's all integrated). If you get a chance, please let me know when you merge the two sites and I'll drop the second link. Thanks.

 

 

Well, you had already made the list! I just fixed the title so it looks like you...

Thanks for linking to that page. Every link helps because sooner or later, a classic game designer will see it and might decide to join the fun and create his or her own new web site (or have a friend do it for them). Every classic game designer/programmer should have a web site, especially if they created a hugely popular game.