VCS, Legal Style?

[Mindfield]

Okay. This is sort of a question that's occasionally come to mind, but it's never really been of particular importance to me to have it answered. But I've lately noticed that the trend of retrogaming and, particularily, the obtaining of legal permission to distribute old games from old machines by fans, has been on the incline. BBC, Spectrum, Vectrex, and most prominently of late, Amiga. What I've been wondering is, has permission actually been obtained for some or most of the 2600 titles out there? (Protos excepted) Or has it been mostly an area where such permission has been deemed largely needless in the VCS realm?

 

Mainly though, I ask because of Infogrames relatively recent announcements of their intention to assume the Fuji whole-hog. With their seeming fervor for resurrecting these old bones, it seems that perhaps they might take an interest in the whole retrogames concept. They'll be releasing the "Atari Anniversary Edition" shortly (basically repackaged classics that Hasbro already covered two years ago) so they obviously have an interest in that market. I just wouldn't want to see them take up a harsh stance against VCS emulation.

[Alex]

I don't think any of the VCS releases have been "legal" in the sense that no licensing fees were paid to Hasbro or whoever owned the Atari 2600 system rights at the time. I think it has been too small of scale for them to really care, and I think if you approached them about it they wouldn't know what to do. Most licensing issues have been avoided because the games were original creations. This does bring up the question of the forthcoming Combat II release - I would think this would be a stickier issue because CGE/DP did not program the game, nor do they own the rights to Combat. So I wonder if this was done legally, or if Infogrames/Atari does not care. Anyone know any details? The attitude from Infogrames *so far* has been pretty friendly, let's hope it stays that way.

[Mindfield]

I'm hoping so, too. At the very least Infogrames seems to be a little more enthusiastic about assuming the role of the "New Atari." And I don't think they'll be another Hasbro, simply using the name to peddle sub-standard wares. (Of course, Infogrames have usually released some pretty good stuff, while Hasbro's usually been about barely passable to relatively lousy material)

 

But the whole issue of emulation is a different story entirely. The likes of Activision have of course been quite positive about it, releasing their own VCS titles emulated to perfection on several platforms, as have Namco and Midway. I suppose I just like the trend of bringing legitemacy to the realm of emulation by legalising the distribution of ROMs and disk images, thereby helping to shed the "warez" stigma of emulation in general, and I'm hoping to see that trend spill over into things Atari. Even if it's an area not considered to be a tremendous threat to the new Atari's revenues as a whole, I think it might still be rather nice to know without a doubt that it's entirely legal. I'd still use the emulators and associated images/ROMs regardless, having been an Atari nut since the early 80s, but if I could do so legitemately in all respects, I think it'd lend a nice, comfortable air to the whole thing and widen the spectrum of VCS emulation -- particularily where, as you pointed out, new game creations like Combat II are concerned.

[Marc Oberhäuser]

Well, I am really wondering how Infogrames will react on such things like my C2-project. I think I will put a sticker on the box regarding the Atari-Copyright-Issue and hope that they won't bash me because of the no- or low-profit direction of it.

 

For future projects like Snow White, Thwobber or other protos I think it will be better to get in contact with the involved companies...

 

MaO

[Alex]

MaO, so you're releasing C2? Well, I certainly hope Infogrames doesn't raise a stink. I think at this point it will still be under their radar, but I bet if you sell copies of Snow White, Disney will hunt you down. Disney is an evil megacorp that in the past wouldn't even allow people to display their characters on goofy fan sites, although I don't know if that's still the case. That would certainly be cool though, if you could sell boxed/labeled copies of those. I'll cross my fingers...

 

Can we have some real screenshots of Snow White and Thwocker?? Pretty please??

[Mindfield]

I think that probably, Infogrames would be fairly pragmatic about hobbyist hardware projects 'n stuff -- like the new TIA project that's been talked about, or the VCSp and kin. For software stuff that's based on copyrighted material -- well, that may be a different story. No one knows at the moment what Infogrames/Atari plan to do with their newly acquired assets, so it's impossible to say whether or not they plan to put the copyrights they own to new use. If they do plan on it -- or even if they don't, they may decide to enforce their particular rights in the situation to prevent unauthorized copying, reverse-engineering or hacking. On the other hand if the goal isn't profit, but just mainly for a hobby, maybe charging enough to recoup expenses involved, they might not bother -- at least, I'm hoping they'd view it as just something fun that fans and hobbyists are doing just for the sheer pleasure of it.

 

Time will tell, I suppose. But I still think it would be interesting to see what they'd say to someone who approached them to try and secure permission to at least distribute their old licenses and copyrighted games for the VCS. It could be revealing... :-)

[Ugclone]

i can't wait to see new games..and i seriously doubt infogrames would say anything about the matter, seeing as how it is a "hobby" and it's not a hi-profit money maker.

However this just crossed my mind..wouldn't it be great if game companies actually released games for their older systems. it's just a thought but i sure think it would be cool if they released at least a possible limited production..you know infogrames (the new atari)could make some 2600 games..nintendo (gasp! how dare i mention that evil here?!) made some nes games? and so on..i dunno just sounded cool at the time

[Alex]

They could get some serious press that way - I'm sure all the gaming mags and lots of mainstream press would report a story like that. They could officially release one of the homebrew games or protos under the Atari name. It wouldn't be a money maker in itself, but corporations produce enough logo junk, they could look at it that way. Sure would be cool, but it'll never happen.

[Mindfield]

Yeah. First and foremost, Infogrames/Atari are about making money, and they won't likely spend it if they can't home to gain something out of it. Creating a new game would cost money, and unless they could reap some half decent ad revenue out of it, they won't bother.

[Elektro]

I used to be really into abandonware a couple of years ago, and certain companies would be real curmudgeons about their old software. Most companies didn't care, but it always pissed me off to read about how certain websites were forced to remove games and apps that nobody would ever be able to make another dime off of again. Ugh.

 

I don't think many companies that made console games will bother to try and wipe out ROMs and emulators, though. Mostly that's because the companies that made VCS games are either gone or producing new games for new systems. And their main audience is the folks who buy and play new consoles, not old ones, so the threat to their profits is virtually nonexistent.

[Mindfield]

I've been into Abandonware for some time, and yes, it does sort of irritate me when some company enforces their rights and force websites to remove old programs. It seems to me that, even if they were to revamp their old titles into new ones, there'd be utterly no loss of revenue from people going and getting the old version of the game, particularily considering the new game would likely be far more graphically and aurally capable. I suppose companies seem to feel that people would have bought this ancient game if it wasn't available on the net -- but they seem to fail to realize that its availbility on the net was the only reason they got it in the first place. No one would bother to pay for it -- unless it was a buck or something, and even if that was the case, the software company has already made its money from the sale of the title to the store in the first place.

 

ROMs and disk images of old systems are the same way. Sure, there are avid collectors who will buy them still, but that's all private sale stuff and is nothing to do with the companies. For the most part though the reason many of us are into emulation is because it's there, and allows us to relive our youth without costing us anything or taking up extra space. 'sides, the whole point is that whether or not software companies/copyright holders decided to press the issue of removing their material from websites, the fact is they'd never see a dime of revenue from it again anyway -- and that the distribution of these old games has utterly no effect on future sales of updated versions. Sure, it _might_ impact the sales of old emulated classic packages -- but those packages usually come with extra information, such as historical bits, video interviews, etc. which are a good reason to buy 'em even if you already have the ROMs.