Heaven/TQA Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 yup. i'll drop you an email. it's just an rough idea. can you send me your contact details? please greet fox tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Hm... you should read the whole Thread I surely did Anyway' date=' the scene you draw is a bit of extreme - imagine now you turn 10 degrees left. What can you reuse? Very little. And if you put textures on the walls, it gets even worse. But probably I don't get something [/quote'] Well... You can alway re-use the Chars on the wall... from the upper to the lower of every wall, and change the "Texture" of the Chars until they fit to the angle/point of view. Any movement below the viewable resolution isn't worth to calculate on. The "software-trick" is to set the movement possibilities to the resolution of the charmode at least. look at the borders... They can be done with 1 to 5 chars (depending on the viewing-angle) and they can be re-used for the lenght of the wall. Even if you try to zoom-in a door ... give it a border, give it a door-handle... and fill the rest with always the same char... and you can move it by setting 10 chars into a screen of max. 400 chars. Without changing the "Textures" this must be fast enough in basic ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eru Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Well, I think you're way too optimistic With textures, no single char can be reused to represent a wall that isn't exactly from left to right. Did you hear about perspective? About borders - I don't believe prerendered chars. You can do it, but only for a very limited set of angles (I would say 2-3). Anyway, let's not argue about it - why don't you try to implement a proof-of-concept on PC to show it can work? Gee, I'm picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Well' date=' I think you're way too optimistic With textures, no single char can be reused to represent a wall that isn't exactly from left to right. Did you hear about perspective? [/quote'] The perspective is mainly given by the Border-Movement. And... As you can see at the "right" wall of the Picture, I've used 3 Chars with a simple texture, that are already enhancing the perspective. The pre-defined textures are "enough" because you are not able to jump or crouch even in Wolf 3D. About borders - I don't believe prerendered chars. You can do it, but only for a very limited set of angles (I would say 2-3). Give it 5 viewable angles plus the mirrored ones..(10) The resolution in "Vector" doesn't really show more angles. It simply doesn't make sense to calculate in a higher resolution as the HW is able to show. Anyway, let's not argue about it - why don't you try to implement a proof-of-concept on PC to show it can work? Gee, I'm picky Shall I tell a looooong story [sees many people holding ther head and yelling "not again" ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 I think I understand emkay's concept of charmode 3D, but I don't worry too much about possible angles of view. In earlier plans I made I restricted to only 90 degrees turns, and not too much movement. You can always find an intermediate solution: Keep screen fixed for a certain area, but the playing character and enemies can walk around on that area in let's say 50 fps. When leaving the area, THEN you can move the whole world around. The actual gameplay would not get far worse by that. You can leave the area only on left or right side (90 degrees) or forward/backwards. However, we now only need charmode for the extra colorregister, as it could as well be done in bitmap mode. My claim: don't expect too much from the little atari. Another way is using charmode with a huge load of fontpages (let's say 12 or 24) for doing a DLI-triggered charbase change on every graphicsmodeline, and another set of fonts with some slight movements of walls/textures for creating finer movements while moving the world around, but I still think we should restrict to 90 degrees turns. That's not really an issue for me. ...but I know that we first should try to materialize the ideas into a demo or something. I'm not that experienced in coding to know if it is possible after all. And it's a shame emkay refuses to code, especially now we can use all kinds of useful PC tools to develop software. ------- Heaven & others... yes, I think it would be very cool to meet soon. Coming month there's also a Retro-computer meeting in Maarssen in the Netherlands. C64, Atari, MSX, all others will be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Here's a link to the site of the Retro-computer meeting: http://commodore-gg.hobby.nl/juni19.htm ..and another amazing thing I found: http://www.btinternet.com/~commodorescene/...e/csdoom64.html ...however I heard rumors that a supercpu would be needed for this to run on c64. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 ..and another amazing thing I found: http://www.btinternet.com/~commodorescene/...e/csdoom64.html ...however I heard rumors that a supercpu would be needed for this to run on c64. That's the difference between C64 and A8 freaks... On C64 people still doing nonsense but it looks good at the mean point Even a "super CPU" does not run this on the C64 and on the real C64 you would have 1 frame in 20 minutes or 10 minutes in Interlace ( ) ... but someone has done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eru Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 http://commodore-gg.hobby.nl/juni19.htm Are you going to be there? I could come for few hours - it's ca 45 mins for me door-to-door. It's next Saturday already! Do they have beer there? Or somewhere close? ..and another amazing thing I found: http://www.btinternet.com/~commodorescene/...e/csdoom64.html ...however I heard rumors that a supercpu would be needed for this to run on c64. Please bear in mind, this is not an actual screenshot from C64, but how it could look on C64 if there was a fast-enough engine. We could do the same - make a screenshot on PC and convert it to TIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 http://commodore-gg.hobby.nl/juni19.htm Are you going to be there? I could come for few hours - it's ca 45 mins for me door-to-door. It's next Saturday already! Do they have beer there? Or somewhere close? Yes I think I'll come. If the sun shines, I'll go there by bicycle (an hour from Hilversum). I'll take floppys with some of my demos. I know the way, I've been there before on a C64 meeting. About beer....I don't think they have that on the meeting, maybe we should bring our own sixpacks of Euroshopper or visit a bar in the centre of Maarssen or Utrecht afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Please bear in mind' date=' this is not an actual screenshot from C64, but how it could look on C64 if there was a fast-enough engine.[/quote'] At the moment, that's not even rendered out on a C64 - it's just a proof of concept from one of a series of threads on comp.sys.cbm and now the Retro Gamer forum. There are doubts (quite a few from me, as it 'appens) as to if the whole CSDoom project is possible since a programmer hasn't been found yet. Minimum spec is SuperCPU and SuperRAM, if memory serves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 sorry... but absolutly offtopic but for my UK friends here... 1:0 38min 1:1 91min 1:2 93min nothing more to add, becks... "I thought they had run out of ideas in the last 10 minutes and they never got beyond our back line. I thought we had won. Then to not even get a draw is unbelievable." Equipe Tricolore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 ff ff e0 02 e1 02 77 e4 Hey, ain't that an Atari-executable that reboots the computer for ever and ever ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_bernstein Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Guys, This game was just incredible !!! Yeah Heaven... Completely off-topic but so good !!! Gotta say I miss my home town (Paris Paris...) when something like this erupts. It's not like soccer is big here in California. Anyway, my british neighbor is still crushed. Better luck next time guys ! You crushed us in the semi-final of the Rugby World Cup, can't win every time. Vive la France !!! AB. P.S. -> Message for Analmux: I'll have more time in the Fall to conclude the "experiment". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathtrappomegranate Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 1:0 38min1:1 91min 1:2 93min nothing more to add, becks... Ich denke, daß die Engländer zu viel "Beck's" tranken :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Are you talking of writting some soccer game in 3D engine? Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 Are you talking of writting some soccer game in 3D engine? Interesting. I never expected such high quality in A8 Graphics... Is it done with G2F? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 :8 yesterday accidently i read something similar about the NBA playoffs... wasn't it not LA Lakers and their 0.4 killer???? but i could be wrong as i am not so into this NBA stuff... nothing more can hurt england then to loose in a soccer game esp. against france or germany... ehehehehhehehe... let's see how we fight against the "oranges" on tuesday.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Chaos Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 There once was a 3D Shooter for the AMIGA called "Death Mask" which used only 90 degree turns similar to rpgs like "Dungeon Master" or "Eye of the Beholder". This would be absolutely no problem for the ATARI 800, even in HiRes, since only byte-blocks have to be copied. With good design, such a shooter could be playable and fast.Of course, you would sacrifice the free movement , but could display high quality high-res graphics (in charmode) at a great framerate. The more data you can store, the more enemies and wall details are possible. Check "Death Mask" on the AMIGA or the older action-rpg "Captive" , which has some 3D-shooter elements, too ("Captive" is also available for the ATARI ST and MS DOS). Another idea : Combination of wireframe graphics a la "Mercenary" with sprites. I think the XL is too slow for shaded walls like in the STE game "Substation" or one AMIGA game that used this technique. And "Encounter" really plays like an early First Person Shooter, this concept could be enhanced. IMO a good frame rate and a good resolution are important for a good 3D shooter.When the frame rate is low, the games are no fun. Of course, there's always the possibility to write games for enhanced CPUs - an ATARI 800 XL with a 65816 certainly could run a port of the Apple II GS version of "Wolfenstein 3D" (Apple II GS is 65816 based, too) Thimo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 sorry... but absolutly offtopic but for my UK friends here... This is the bit where i say "i'm glad they lost" and laugh my arse off at all the tosspots with flags on their houses, cars and so forth isn't it...? =-) As for 3D environments, anyone looked at Scarabeus on the C64 as a possible base? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 And the ATARI ST and AMIGA, both running at 8/7.14 Mhz have 3D shooters, too, both need at least 32K for a screen - the ATARI would need less. there really weren't any 3d shooters for the standard Atari ST/AMIGA running at 7mhz. kvn Sure there are, you just don't know about them, here's one for the ST that is pretty damn cool called 'Destruction Imminent.' That is just one example of a good WF3D clone. There are others too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 .....makes me wonder.... What games have to be done for A8 ??? -Super Mario -Sonic the Hedgehog -Zelda -Turrican -Wolfenstein -Vector (!!!) ??? +++ -Barbarian -Bubble Bobble -Impossible Mission -Maniac Mansion -Test Drive -The Last Ninja (series) -Out Run -Wizball -ZakMcKracken ... and many more :wink: Barbarian IS on the A8, I have it and I'm pretty sure Bubble Bobble is also on the A8, and I think I may have it too. I was going to tell you I.M. was on the A8 too, but I just remembered that's the 7800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 bubble bobble???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Heaven/TQA bubble bobble???? well it's not a 3D game but it is a favourite of many people I am currently working on bringing this to the A8. This post has prompted me to announce it early.. watch this space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avram Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Excellent news about Bubble Bobble! So how about some work-in-progress screenshots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Heaven/TQA bubble bobble???? well it's not a 3D game but it is a favourite of many people I am currently working on bringing this to the A8. This post has prompted me to announce it early.. watch this space. Yes Yes Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.