The Flicker Threshold

[Stingray]

But there's things way worse. Playing some N64 games or first gen. 3dfx titles like Descent makes me vomit within 10 minutes. Really!

 

I always wondered if I was the only one who gets motion sickness from first person perspective games. This is the main reason why I can't stand FPS games, I start to feel sick after only a few minutes. Cockpit view driving games do the same to me. I have to switch Gran Turismo to the behind the car view or I can't play it.

 

-S

[Mindfield]

Actually, I find it's mostly the games that employ the fish-eye-lens effect of stretching out the visuals slightly the further towards the edge they get to give a simulated sense of peripheral vision. The more pronounced they make this effect the worse it tends to affect me when playing. I never understood why this effect was necessary to be honest -- I'd much rather a straight view with no fish-eye effect.

[NE146]

Uhh... it kind of sounds like you're describing the monsters dissapearing.. which is what the enemies are supposed to do in Wizard of Wor? (just like the arcade game).

I don't think so. Manuel seemed to know the rules and the original very well when we tried to play it.

 

Oh ok.. just checking It was just the way he described it.. and saying how it "gets worse as every minute I'm playing it" which I took to mean how it gets more frequent. But I guess on a second read, I see what he means now.

 

Not trying to bag on you in any way of course Cybergoth.. just trying to be helpful

[Ze_ro]

That's some fascinating stuff, Ze_ro, exactly what I was wondering about.  My "fusion frequency" has got to be on the low side as well.

 

Well, keep in mind that there's a lot more too it than just fusion frequency. In most Atari games, even the "best" flicker means that a character is only on for every second frame, which gives it a 30Hz frequency (25Hz for PAL). Even for people with really "gullible" eyes, this should still be noticable. Pac-Man takes this even farther to the point where I think ghosts are only shown every 4 frames, bringing the frequency down to around 15Hz. At this point, I don't think there is anyone who can't detect that.

 

So, for the most part, no one is entirely fooled by the flicker. Fusion frequency may be related to tolerance though.

 

I always wondered if I was the only one who gets motion sickness from first person perspective games.

 

My brother has a lot of trouble with motion sickness in FPS games... even just games like Duke Nukem, he can't play for more than about 15 minutes at a time. However, I've never had any problems with motion sickness in my life... I used to play Descent for hours on end, twisting and somersaulting through the levels.

 

--Zero

[Big Player]

So is the bottom line: The worse your vision, the less flicker annoys you?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

So is the bottom line: The worse your vision, the less flicker annoys you?  

I prefer: The slower your brain, ...

[Big Player]

So is the bottom line: The worse your vision, the less flicker annoys you?  

I prefer: The slower your brain, ...

 

That sounds better.

 

The late baseball player Ted Williams said he could see the laces on a baseball at 90 MPH. I'm guessing he wouldn't have wanted to get anywhere near a 2600.

 

As a prank, some of Walt Disney's animators put a frame or two of a nude woman in one of his movie. At the test screening, he said, "Who put the nude woman in my movie."

 

So both men had fast brains that are now frozen solid.

[HermChase]

Wasn't that in "The Rescuers"? So THAT's how that lady got there...

 

And, if that wasn't humour, Walt Disney's not really frozen.

 

And, when I first saw Fight Club, I saw a flicker of a guy and got REALLY confused and asked the person who I was watching it with if I was going crazy. I'm gunna have to borrow it now to see how many times it happens.

 

-----

Chase Hermsen

[SS]

So is the bottom line: The worse your vision, the less flicker annoys you?  

I prefer: The slower your brain, ...

 

Must be why 2600 flicker doesn't seem to bother me at all.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Must be why 2600 flicker doesn't seem to bother me at all.  

You got me!

 

Finally!

 

j/k

[Video]

My "fusion Frequency" must be extremely high. I notice almost everything flicker. Take GameBoy Advance for instance, I happen to know it's screen refreshes at least 60 times a second, but I can see that (the more light there is, the worse it is) I notice LED"s flicker, and Florecents, of course, they're all around 60hz also. But I can notice things like the monitors around here, and most are set around 75hz.

 

But Pac-Man for Atari never bothered me, and the ghosts are flashing only 15 times a second each. The game only shows one at a time, that's why the player sprite never flickers and the ghosts always do, I always thought it was because their 'ghosts' and should be transparrent, never thought of atari's ability to handle the game. But it doesn't bother me, odly.

 

The thing that always got me was, why can I see the flickering of a monitor up to around 85 hz, but I've never noticed my TV screen which is around 60hz? Probably because it takes longer for the lower quality phosphorus crap, or whatever makes the glow to dim out, so it isn't as noticeable?

[sku_u]

So is the bottom line: The worse your vision' date=' the less flicker annoys you? [/quote']

I prefer: The slower your brain' date=' ... [/quote']

 

That sounds better.

 

The late baseball player Ted Williams said he could see the laces on a baseball at 90 MPH. I'm guessing he wouldn't have wanted to get anywhere near a 2600.

 

Not necessarily. I have 20/1 vision. I was heavily recruited by the Air Force in college because of my eye sight until it was discovered that I'm partially color blind. I've never had a problem with flicker, stobe lights, or anything along those lines.

[NovaXpress]

There are just so many aspects of vision to consider. I have 20/40 vision, which isn't too hot. Yet I have superb night vision. The two don't seem connected. I have that extremely high tolerance for flickerand strobes.

 

When I play vector games, I see long trails that follow the objects lasting a few seconds. The effect is most pronounced on b/w monitors. Does everyone else see the trails?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

When I play vector games' date=' I see long trails that follow the objects lasting a few seconds. The effect is most pronounced on b/w monitors. Does everyone else see the trails?[/quote']

Nope, but I have a very low tolerance for flicker. I think those two things are connected (luminescence reduces flicker).

 

My night vision is quite bad, though I never tested it.

[NovaXpress]

I just realized that this is why I always preferred games which used a solid black backgound. With other colors in the back, I don't see the trails and the graphics are less interesting to me.

 

These days you never get a solid background in the newer games, maybe this is one of the things that keeps me hooked to the classics. Games like Tempest and Demon Atacck still look the coolest.

[HermChase]

I played Asteroids in Funspot a few months back, and I definately noticed those trails also. I always thought they were on the screen.

 

------

Chase Hermsen

[SS]

These days you never get a solid background in the newer games' date=' maybe this is one of the things that keeps me hooked to the classics. [/quote']

 

Never thought about it before but you may have a point there.

[Big Player]

So is the bottom line: The worse your vision' date=' the less flicker annoys you? [/quote']

I prefer: The slower your brain' date=' ... [/quote']

 

That sounds better.

 

The late baseball player Ted Williams said he could see the laces on a baseball at 90 MPH. I'm guessing he wouldn't have wanted to get anywhere near a 2600.

 

Not necessarily. I have 20/1 vision. I was heavily recruited by the Air Force in college because of my eye sight until it was discovered that I'm partially color blind. I've never had a problem with flicker, stobe lights, or anything along those lines.

 

That's impressive vision. I had a boss with vision something like that. He could read the smallest text on my computer screen from across my office. It was nice in that I never had to give him printouts if I had something to show him on my computer.

 

But I'm not sure we're talking about the same aspects of vision. The ability to see objects at a great distance is not the same as seeing extremely fast moving objects clearly (not blurred at all.)

 

They could both present in someone with great vision, but I think the "Ted Williams ability" (for lack of a better term) has to do with how the brain processes the images from the eye while the 20/1 vision would have to do with the mechanics of the eye--how it focuses and such.

 

I could be completely wrong though. Wish I knew more about vision. It's an interesting topic.