Menace Souce Code Released

[Tezz]

Tezz Emkay has been working on the Menace RMT track 3. Let us know what you think of this WIP.

Hi Emkay, I liked some of the new ellements in the track. Although we still seem to have a detuned sound. Maybe this sounds Ok on the real hardware. have you progressed any further from this version?

 

I will post a new version shortly with the C64 lead added as I intended.

 

To break this new edit of the track down as I have heard it, the main lead has been replaced but the high notes seem to have been removed? The snare has been replaced though with the tinny whitenoise sounding atari snare. I have used 3 tracks only on my original version so some filtered voices can be added to replace or enhance certain tracks. I wanted to get the main structure down first in 3 channels before making it sound nice.

 

Schmutzpuppe I like the main voice sounds a bit like c64 and the bass is also good but the song need some improvents sound a bit "biaswise"

Yes improvments definately needed! not sure what you mean by sounds a bit "biaswise"? but certainly detuning seems to be an issue when creating instruments?

[analmux]

Heaven/TQA1:1.... aaaaaaarg....

Germany played well though. Holand were lucky to equalise

 

Yes, I agree. I'm not proud at all of the oranges performance.

 

But....Tezz, you're doing some really great work with the G2F's. Nice to see some action.

[emkay]

.

 

To break this new edit of the track down as I have heard it, the main lead has been replaced but the high notes seem to have been removed? The  

 

Yes... the whole song is at 15kHz instead of 64kHz.

So the high notes are cut.

The result is to have real deep notes and the possibility of "warmer" filter-sounding. And the song isn't played 2 octaves too high again.

 

 

snare has been replaced though with the tinny whitenoise sounding atari snare.  

 

The "tinny" whitenoise is created by using on channel with 1.79mhz, so the percussion is higher toned than the rest of the song.

It is always possible to use 1.79MHz and 16kHz the same time.

Especially the "original" snaredrum is build in 64khz... which means: drumsound in the mid-range and low tuned noise.

If RMT would allow "per step" switching of 1.79MHz, it would be possible to create a snaredrum with a real deep sound and a real high noise for a more relieable sound.

 

I have used 3 tracks only on my original version so some filtered voices can be added to replace or enhance certain tracks. I wanted to get the main structure down first in 3 channels before making it sound nice.

 

 

That's what i thought, too. But how will anyone fintune any "extended" Pokey-tune in RMT?

The melodic voice sounds (just again) different in RMT and can only be fine-tuned for Playback in RMT and with the features of RMT....

 

 

I think that the RMT results are only to easy edit a tune, but to make it reliable, it is extremely necessary to put the source into a real machine soundeditor...

[Tezz]

emkay Yes... the whole song is at 15kHz instead of 64kHz.  

So the high notes are cut. The result is to have real deep notes and the possibility of "warmer" filter-sounding.

ah right OK.

 

If RMT would allow "per step" switching of 1.79MHz, it would be possible to create a snaredrum with a real deep sound and a real high noise for a more relieable sound.

Yes, there's a lot more needed in a future development of RMT or a new tracker.

 

I think that the RMT results are only to easy edit a tune, but to make it reliable, it is extremely necessary to put the source into a real machine soundeditor...

I think we badly need a reliable editor for pokey music on the PC. I really like RMT but there are a lot of issues with it which make things very difficult.

 

Maybe softsynth will appear back soon if the author has more time.

[emkay]

 I think we badly need a reliable editor for pokey music on the PC. I really like RMT but there are a lot of issues with it which make things very difficult.

 

Maybe softsynth will appear back soon if the author has more time.

 

 

You know... softsynth isn't usable for ingame music.

 

What we really need is a RMT + the following features:

 

-variable updatings (mainly for the "singing" voice) instead of fixed 50Hz

-Full and free usability of AUDCTL.

-full compatible emulation of pokey and the 6502CPU.

 

 

Please listen to the attached song... then think about the "realistic" more and clear "tuned in" sounds + 3 more octaves for the filtered sounds and some additional cool effects.... which is POKEY capable of.

[analmux]

What we really need is a RMT + the following features:

 

-variable updatings (mainly for the "singing" voice) instead of fixed 50Hz

-Full and free usability of AUDCTL.

-full compatible emulation of pokey and the 6502CPU.

 

Now, what about a {song}.xex with implemented sound-editor, so while playing you're able to adjust the sound on the Atari itself. You only have to connect your old hardware on the TV. It should be a piece of cake to program such a real-time editor. I wish it was beginning of july when I will get a lot of spare time

 

Question: Don't variable updatings make use of a pokey timer irq that is blocked by DLIs when displaying G2f pictures?

[emkay]

Question: Don't variable updatings make use of a pokey timer irq that is blocked by DLIs when displaying G2f pictures?

 

 

Primary I am talking about a timed programming depending on the played notes.

Using the Pokey-interrupts will end in some kind of digitizing which is heavily interfered by the DLI-code of G2F.

[analmux]

Question: Don't variable updatings make use of a pokey timer irq that is blocked by DLIs when displaying G2f pictures?

 

 

Primary I am talking about a timed programming depending on the played notes.

Using the Pokey-interrupts will end in some kind of digitizing which is heavily interfered by the DLI-code of G2F.

 

How would you do that withou IRQs?

[emkay]

Question: Don't variable updatings make use of a pokey timer irq that is blocked by DLIs when displaying G2f pictures?

 

 

Primary I am talking about a timed programming depending on the played notes.

Using the Pokey-interrupts will end in some kind of digitizing which is heavily interfered by the DLI-code of G2F.

 

How would you do that withou IRQs?

 

Perhaps the same way as the volume changing is done? Between 1 and 50Hz?

For example:

Give 440Hz -> 44 updatings (and 880Hz too)

Give 320Hz -> 32 updatings

etc....

Or let the musician chose the updating speed on every note for a better finetuning?

 

Especially when using filter, it needs more than one step on the instrument envelope to make the sound "better"... keeping the updating at 50Hz and chosing a higher note, will play more "sound-cycles" in the same time and the filter-start is at the wrong position... with a variable updating you may freely search for the correct filter position with it.

Playing a note at 320 Hz with 32Hz will use the same filter position as 44Hz at 440Hz ... and so on.

[analmux]

Yes emkay I understand but HOW are you going to trigger update routines at a regular frequency, without having to use a timer IRQ.

 

Let me say that I still doubt that the update frequency of 50 Hz has any influence on the filter resonances. I think it has more to do with the syncing of the sound-channels and another thing:

 

when you're filtering then the filtering voice should play a pitch that is a certain factor multiplied by the pitch of the main voice. Let's say the double. Then when you play pitches 73,75,77 on the main voice, then the filtering pitches should be 37,38,39 (or something) but that's not always accurately possible, so some of the pitches will need to be corrected a little to stay in tune.

[emkay]

@Tezz / Analmux

 

I have appended a song from the game "Rockman"

The main voice ist sounding very nice. I know it is done by using channel 1 or 3 with 1,79MHZ and generator "2". But I don't get the voice sounding like this in my own testings.

 

I would say ... let's put this voice onto some parts "my" 2nd remake of the Menace-Tune and the song would be perfect.

The Song is done by using 15KHz for the deeper notes, and that voice from the Rockman tune is using 1,79MHZ... so it easily can work together...

[miker]

Hey Emkay - in "Rockman - 1" tune there aren't any 1,79MHz or other like this combinations - it's the 16bit bass well known from tunes such as "Jet Set Willy", "Warhawk", "BMX Simulator" or other old classic games, but the pitch is "a little" higher here. Why don't you like it? - i like it very much for example!

 

I really don't know if RMT supports 16bit bass ($28 or $50 in the address $d208)

[miker]

...and thus the 16bit bass isn't used here as bass, but as regular instrument.

 

Well Daxey was great musician and we all miss him very much...

[emkay]

@miker

 

I like that tune ... no doubt

 

I thought, it must be generator "2" because the sound is a bit noisy... to compare what I could get with this generator... another Testsong is appended.

Ofcourse I know the "bass" can be used for music, but it seems with RMT you cannot manipulate the voice as it is done in the Rockman tune?

[Tezz]

emkay I would say ... let's put this voice onto some parts "my" 2nd remake of the Menace-Tune and the song would be perfect. The Song is done by using 15KHz for the deeper notes, and that voice from the Rockman tune is using 1,79MHZ... so it easily can work together...

OK.

 

miker Well Daxey was great musician and we all miss him very much

so many much missed Atari people Ah well we're here now to pick up the torch