Atarilympics Poll/Suggestion Thread

[Ze_ro]

Alright, now that the Atarilympics are all over, I'm curious to know what you guys thought of it. Overall, I think it went quite well, and I wouldn't mind doing it again some day. Some things obviously could use improvement though, so here's where you get to sound off about what parts of the event you thought were good, and which you thought sucked!

 

Here's where I stand on most of the issues:

 

The scores weren't updated often enough

 

It took quite some time to edit and recount everything, so I generally only did this once or twice a day. I wish I could have done it more often though. I can already think of some ways to speed up the process a bit, but it still takes a lot longer than updating the scores for the High Score Club.

 

The scoring system was unfair and/or confusing

 

I guess the weighted scoring system that was suggested probably would have been more fair after all. Frankly, I could go either way on this one... I have no strong feelings about it myself, so whatever you guys think would work best. I had originally hoped to include the gold/silver/bronze fuji icons all through the event, since it would have helped people see what was actually going on... but quite frankly, the HTML gets to be a huge mess with all the little icons and flags in there, so it would have been much harder to sort through all the scores.

 

Having Todd Rogers in the event kinda wrecked the curve for everyone else

 

Sorry Todd, I don't mean this as a insult or anything like that... but the issue was raised, so I figured it was worth including here. Personally, I have no problem with Todd being here, and there were enough other rules going on that pretty much ensured that one person couldn't monopolize the whole contest, so I think it worked out in the end.

 

People submitting scores at the last minute was annoying

 

I'll almost certainly change the timing of things next time... like, divide all the events into 3 or 4 stages that might last a few days at a time. This would likely make things easier for everyone, although then you'd have to pay attention and make sure you were aware of the schedule and such.

 

There were too many events

 

I knew 33 events was going to be quite a bit right from the start, but I wanted things to be rather grand, so I went through with it anyways. I know some of you probably thought California Games and Winter Games were questionable choices... but the way I figure it is that neither game can really be used for an event on it's own, so I might as well combine them all into one huge event instead. Do you think it would have worked better if I did seperate Winter/Summer Atarilympics somehow? I might be able to find some winter themed games to add in there... Otherwise, I'd probably just repeat this all again in 2 years when the winter olympics come up... track and field events and everything.

 

The team size was poor... either too small or too many

 

What did you guys thing of the team size? Would it have worked better with MORE players per team? Or what about less? Perhaps if people just paired off rather than having full teams, things might have worked better? Honestly, I'm not sure what would work better. It would probably have been best to have a team size that was equal to the number of games so that people could specialize just in, say, Winter Games and leave the other games to the rest of the team.

 

Alternatively, do you think things would have been better off without the whole team-play thing altogether, and just have everyone go for individual high scores? With 33 events, that probably would have let to a lot more chaos for me.

 

The whole 4-event minimum was too restrictive

 

I know some people were a little frustrated with this. I admit I should have probably added a maximum or something. I just wanted to make sure everyone contributed at least a bit... and I couldn't really think of any better way to do it. Perhaps it would have worked better if everyone chose events from the very start and stuck with just those events instead?

 

Unfortunately, I hit the limit on poll options, so I couldn't add anything else... I suppose this is as good a place as any to mention the possibility of more than one medal per team... I figured it would have made things too one-sided, but do you guys thing it would have worked better if you could win both gold AND silver?

 

Are you guys concerned at all that some people (other than Rocko) might have been cheating? I don't know if anyone did or not... I generally know most of you through the High Score Club, and I've seen enough of your scores to know your skill levels... but there are always some surprises. I'm sure some people took strange advantages like goofy emulator performance, or controller quirks and such, and it's pretty much impossible to know when people are doing this unfortunately.

 

Should there have been more ways to score medals? In the High Score Club, I give out points for the best tips... do you guys think something like that would have worked in here? I didn't want to award 33 medals just for tips, but maybe there could be three medals for the three teams that submitted the most tips or something like that.

 

Anyone else have a hard time deciding what to play on sunday? I know I did... This overlap was probably much more of a problem for me than it was for any of you guys, since it made for a long sunday for me... Next time, I'll probably try to end things a day later or something so this can be avoided.

 

Lastly, do you guys think that the events that were easy to max out should have been excluded? Stuff like Summer Games Skeet Shoot and Track & Field Hammer Throw ended with like, 7 or 8 gold medals each. I like the idea of having a couple of events that pretty much any team can get a medal off of.

 

--Zero

[Godzilla]

Where's the

 

'The Atariwhat?'

 

button?

 

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

I think it worked great for the first try

 

There's some kind of cheating you can never control, that is having the better team members doing all events and passing their scores to the weaker members behind *our* backs...

 

So my sugestion would be to put more emphasis on individual scores, with the team score coming secondary in recognition.

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[Brad2600]

I had no help from my teammates but that's ok though.

 

They're busy folks.

 

I thought scoring was unfair. Especially since I had won 2 medals for my team and for some reason, they get stripped? If you win a medal...you should keep the medal.

[Brad2600]

I had no help from my teammates but that's ok though.

 

They're busy folks.

 

I thought scoring was unfair. Especially since I had won 2 medals for my team and for some reason, they get stripped? If you win a medal...you should keep the medal.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Make screenshots mandatory for (medal) results.

 

If somebody wants to cheat, he should at least invest some extra efford.

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

Make screenshots mandatory for (medal) results.  

 

If somebody wants to cheat, he should at least invest some extra efford.

 

With the next olympics being in 2 years, maybe until then the emulators can be updated to do "watersigned" screenshots, that somehow contain a checkable CRC?

 

Or maybe they can record exportable INP files, so you can basically see a replay of the event.

 

They possibly can also secure the framerate to be at an average 60+-1 Hz when running in "Olympic mode".

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[Dan Iacovelli]

I think it went it ok for the first try myself.

 

it kind of reminded me of my clubs competition I use to have (atari bowl formerly Atari mania: where people submitted scores and I kept a record of who won what)

it also inspired me to change the rules of my competition for next year from singles to a team. I'll have more information on that coming in Novmember.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

With the next olympics being in 2 years, maybe until then the emulators can be updated to do "watersigned" screenshots, that somehow contain a checkable CRC?

Exactly.

 

You could store some additional data inside the screenshot, e.g. the emulator and its version, if the game was paused, the average framerate, checksums of the used ROM and emulator, some important emulator parameters and settings and finally a checksum for the whole file.

 

I remember having suggested this to some of the emulator authors (both, z26 and Stella) already. But they where sceptical, because you could still either hack the emulator or the screenshot file. This is true (unless you use some really advanced encrypting keys etc.), but still this would IMO at least heavily increase the necessary knowledge and efford to cheat.

[MattyXB]

I think it was great for the first time. And when someone is better in videogames I have no problem with this. Todd Rogers scores are great and unbelivable for the most players I think (for me too), but when he can do it I accept it.

 

Only one thing @ Todd Roger (and maybe Numan):

How can you run so fast by Decathlon? Thats amazing.

Joypad? Keyboard? Or original old Atari Joystick?

[Jeffy Arensmeyer]

Call it sniping, or whatever, but I hate to lose, so if someone runs in and posts a better score, I'm hitting the game again, and will post better results if I get them. My wife was reading, my daughter was asleep, so it was either watch more of the closing ceremonies, or go for a Relay time. A rotating schedule would help this situation. I'm not going to get up at 2:00am and check scores, so a system that leaves a large enough period of time for completion for everyone, but forces them to post and then go on wife life could be effective.

 

It's weird that it's considered sniping to post scores up until the last minute. Considering the entire event lasted two weeks, and I took only two days to play, that makes my 9:30pm post on Sunday relate to posting sometime early Saturday.

 

And the four event minimum is a great idea to keep one team member from monopolizing a team, but it made it very difficult to pick events, especially if you come in spuratically or late. You don't want to bump your members out of the medals, but it's frustrating knowing you can get a better score, but you jeopardize your team by bumping someone. A minimum and maximum system should be employed. Or a maximum limit for single team members on one game, as was the case with Todd. He single-handedly locked down "Activision Decathlon" for his team, leaving all of them to play the other games.

 

ò¿ó    

[128bytes]

I thought it went great overall. Some of the other ideas, such as a maximum number of medal submissions for each player, required screenshots for a medal, etc. make a lot of sense to me. The Rocko incident (alleged screen doctoring to inflate the score), although really annoying and depressing (we otherwise do have a great spirit of fair play), was handled very well by ze_ro (who was right to remove the score) and was effectively self-policed by the rest of the competitors on the Board.

 

I don't think it's right for people who got medals for teams where other members didn't qualify -- for instance, Kepone's medals should not be stripped -- maybe if you win a medal, and you are a member of a team that otherwise doesn't qualify, you then earn your medal for a country called "Other Medals".

 

I hope we have more tournaments in the future!

[Goochman]

This event was run great Ze_ro - my comments are only nitpicking, Id do it again with the same rules.

 

Heres my suggestions:

 

1a. Make the team sizes the same - 4 people per team

or

1b. Make a minimum amount of individual sumbissions per team (say 16 submissions have to be spread across the teamates)

 

2. Gold medals should have a bit more value - say 1.1 to a siler or bronze at 1.0

 

3. Not verifiable, but ask player to indicate controller used - SHould try to stick to standard joysticks/keyboard vs some super custom hacks for the button mashing events

 

4. Post ROM images that folks have to play - avoid any custom Rocko problems............

 

 

Again,

 

Great Job Ze_ro!

[Goochman]

Call it sniping, or whatever, but I hate to lose, so if someone runs in and posts a better score, I'm hitting the game again, and will post better results if I get them. My wife was reading, my daughter was asleep, so it was either watch more of the closing ceremonies, or go for a Relay time. A rotating schedule would help this situation. I'm not going to get up at 2:00am and check scores, so a system that leaves a large enough period of time for completion for everyone, but  forces them to post and then go on wife life could be effective.

 

It's weird that it's considered sniping to post scores up until the last minute. Considering the entire event lasted two weeks, and I took only two days to play, that makes my 9:30pm post on Sunday relate to posting sometime early Saturday.

 

And the four event minimum is a great idea to keep one team member from monopolizing a team, but it made it very difficult to pick events, especially if you come in spuratically or late. You don't want to bump your members out of the medals, but it's frustrating knowing you can get a better score, but you jeopardize your team by bumping someone. A minimum and maximum system should be employed. Or a maximum limit for single team members on one game, as was the case with Todd. He single-handedly locked down "Activision Decathlon" for his team, leaving all of them to play the other games.  

 

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Jeff,

 

As an FYI - I had been playing the Relay for 2 days and couldnt increase my score - I bagged the closing ceremonies for 1 more go and beat it - so please dont think I was sniping - I posted all my updates ASAP - And even still I got the bronze!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[keilbaca]

I Assure you that Todd used a real atari stick.... I had an equivelant for a track and field controller, what i mean by that was I used my "Drunken dual atari 2600 joystick controller out of a ps2 arcade joystick controller" where on one side, every direction is a button.

[Jeffy Arensmeyer]

...so please dont think I was sniping...

Everyone can call it what they want; I'm pro-(whatever it is). a better score, whether it comes in the proverbial first hour (like all of the Activision Decath scores) or whether it comes in the twelfth hour.

I'd rather spend time doing other stuff when I feel like I've done my best, but it's the late scores that push me further. Like I always say, if you give people an early target, someone will eventually hit it. It's about priorities, and if you're not willing to defend what you put up whenever the challenge, you can't complain when someone else beats it, early or late.

 

And thanx for making me play the Swimming Relay. I didn't realize how similar it was until I sat down to make a score. Tough on the eyes, but fun, especially getting the jump start.

 

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[bjk7382]

I didn't participate mainly because I don't like the sports games. (which is also why I am sitting out of the 8bit olympic thread)

 

I am glad that the regular HSC was running while the olympics thing was going on.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I didn't participate mainly because I don't like the sports games. (which is also why I am sitting out of the 8bit olympic thread)

Ah, that explains it. I really missed you.

[bjk7382]

I didn't participate mainly because I don't like the sports games. (which is also why I am sitting out of the 8bit olympic thread)

Ah, that explains it. I really missed you.

 

And to think, I didn't think anyone would notice or care Thanks Thomas, but the only event that I would have enjoyed is the BMX on california games.

[keilbaca]

I didn't participate mainly because I don't like the sports games. (which is also why I am sitting out of the 8bit olympic thread)

Ah, that explains it. I really missed you.

 

And to think, I didn't think anyone would notice or care Thanks Thomas, but the only event that I would have enjoyed is the BMX on california games.

 

 

Aww, I could have had a challenge... try to beat my score anyways

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Thanks Thomas, but the only event that I would have enjoyed is the BMX on california games.

So, you are not a big fan of SG Gymnastics???

 

[bjk7382]

Thanks Thomas, but the only event that I would have enjoyed is the BMX on california games.

So, you are not a big fan of SG Gymnastics???

 

 

No...

 

To tell you the truth, I am just no good at the running parts, especially on activision's decathlon.

 

Well, I don't like to run in real life and I don't like to run in video games

[Thomas Jentzsch]

To tell you the truth, I am just no good at the running parts, especially on activision's decathlon.

Me too, though I was better in my early years.

 

Well, I don't like to run in real life...

Again, I have to agree. Though, as soon as there is a ball (I said ball, not egg! ), this will change dramatically.

[Ze_ro]

I thought scoring was unfair. Especially since I had won 2 medals for my team and for some reason, they get stripped? If you win a medal...you should keep the medal.  

You mean even after your score is beaten? I'm not sure things could work properly that way... I mean, for a while there, Malc and Goochman had a good rivalry going on the swimming... should I have awarded them a new gold medal every time they bested each other? And then a silver when they were subsequently beaten? I was the first one to submit a score for the Biathlon... should I have kept a gold medal from that, even though I was eventually pushed down to 4th place?

 

None of the medals were finalized until sunday night... I figured that kind of went without saying...

 

Another bit of a dilemma I've been having regards using emulators and offering prizes. I'm not sure I feel comfortable awarding prizes when I can't guarantee that scores are valid... theres essentially no way to tell if people are cheating via emulators, even if it's just goofy stuff like the emulator running slightly slow, or whatever. So it's very likely that in any further competitions, I'll likely either purposely not offer any prizes, or disallow emulators (and likely *require* pictures).

 

--Zero

[Thomas Jentzsch]

So it's very likely that in any further competitions, I'll likely ...disallow emulators

Please don't , that would (have to) be the end of my participation.