Making a cartrigde of a Starpath game (Frogger)?

[moderntimes99]

As I have recently discovered the Starpath version of Frogger and now hold it as one of my absolute favourites for the 2600 I have started to wonder whether it would be possible to make a cartridge of it. (Essentially cutting out the loading step of the Starpath game.)

 

Has anyone tried this? You would probably need a cartridge with both RAM and ROM and a small custom snippet of code that copies the ROM to RAM at startup...

 

Best regards,

Moderntimes99

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Nope, unfortunately it's not that easy.

 

SC games heavily utilize the RAM for large data chunks, self-modifying code etc.. So you would need a RAM cart, with at least 6K RAM.

[mos6507]

Nope, unfortunately it's not that easy.

 

SC games heavily utilize the RAM for large data chunks, self-modifying code etc.. So you would need a RAM cart, with at least 6K RAM.

 

It might be possible to effectively make an embedded Supercharger with a bootstrap loader from ROM to RAM all in one self-contained cartridge, but at low volumes it would probably be a little expensive per cart. Seems like an aweful lot of effort just to avoid loading the game via CD or tape.

[FireTiger]

so what if the game 'recorded' into the adaption cart and then worked like the mini SC? then if you owned X such carts you could load X of them like a cart.

[Mindfield]

I don't know enough about the 2600's architecture to say for sure, but wouldn't it be easier to put the program on a ROM, stick in some RAM, and then hack the code to work with that?

[Godzilla]

I know Atari had an illegal prototype rom cart of rabbit transit, so it can be done. Maybe using that rom, one could figure out how to turn any supercharger game into an atari cart?

[Dav]

I considered doing a ram cart for it. But iirc the way they did the write signal is not exactly trivial to implement. I had hard enough time making a ram cart that works half way decent with the "simple" system of using an address line for write.

[Goochman]

There is a cart version available - Its called the Cuttle Cart 2

 

Thats how I play Starpath games

[SS]

There is a cart version available - Its called the Cuttle Cart 2

 

Thats how I play Starpath games

 

Me too! Frankly, I don't know if there'll ever be a need to hook up my Supercharger again (or most of the rest of my carts, for that matter :wink: ).

[GrizzLee]

I know Atari had an illegal prototype rom cart of rabbit transit,

 

Why do you say that?

 

-Lee

[Godzilla]

http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/r...bbittransit.htm

 

I like how he automatically assumes atari was working on some kind of deal, even though I have seen and head zero evidence to this, back in the day as well as now... I'm sure someone at Atari was just seeing if it could be done.

[Ze_ro]

http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/rabbittransit/rabbittransit.htm

 

I like how he automatically assumes atari was working on some kind of deal, even though I have seen and head zero evidence to this

Well, Atari DID work out similar deals with Parker Bros and Coleco... that's why you can find red label versions of Q*Bert and Venture. Is it so hard to think that they might have been in similar talks with Starpath?

 

Not to mention that (if I'm not mistaken) Starpath was bought out by Epyx, and then Epyx was bought out by Atari, so perhaps at the point Atari was working on this, they actually owned the rights to the game anyways. However, Bridgestone Multimedia somehow ended up with the rights to these games, so this probably wasn't the case.

 

I don't know enough about the 2600's architecture to say for sure, but wouldn't it be easier to put the program on a ROM, stick in some RAM, and then hack the code to work with that?

It really depends on how the code for the game is written. If Thomas is right and the game uses self-modifying code (do ALL Supercharger games do this?), then you'd likely have to rewrite large portions of the code to work around this... this would be a monumental task for even the best 2600 homebrew guys out there. Really the only way for this to work would be to have the cart "simulate" the load routine... and if you're going that far, then you might as well just get a Cuttle Cart 2.

 

If you're looking for an easy way out, then just re-record all your tapes (or pirate the roms and convert them to wavs or whatever) onto a single CD. Get a cheap discman and keep it hooked up to your Supercharger. You still have to load the games, but it's generally easier than swapping tapes and all that junk. Keep in mind that you'll have to make each load (for the multiload games) into a seperate track... and you can also stick some other 2-4K games on the disc to fill it up if you want.

 

--Zero

[Godzilla]

http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/rabbittransit/rabbittransit.htm

 

I like how he automatically assumes atari was working on some kind of deal, even though I have seen and head zero evidence to this

Well, Atari DID work out similar deals with Parker Bros and Coleco... that's why you can find red label versions of Q*Bert and Venture. Is it so hard to think that they might have been in similar talks with Starpath?

--Zero

 

It's nothing to do with how hard it is to 'think that it may have been possible' all I am saying is that is simply a created fiction. However logical or potentially possible it MAY appear to us in hindsight, until I see -ANY- evidence to the contrary (of which none exists,) I will not create false assumptions.

[vb_master]

Bridgestone Multimedia

These guy's don't have a website anymore, which leads me to beleave that they are free game, and anyone can access them. The last people to contact them was the CyberPunks, and Bridgestone Multimedia (I think...) is defunct now. They have no website up, the last time their page was uploaded onto web.archive.org was way back in November 29, 2001 (here's the link to web.archive.org's database of Bridgestone Multimedia pages). According to Network Solutions, Bridgestone's .com site is going to expire on June 24, 2005, so until then they are still owned by them, if they don't renew, that means their dead. Why they keep holding on to this stuff is beyond me, it's not like their going to begin producing the tapes again .

[Goochman]

Bridgestone Multimedia

These guy's don't have a website anymore, which leads me to beleave that they are free game, and anyone can access them. The last people to contact them was the CyberPunks, and Bridgestone Multimedia (I think...) is defunct now. They have no website up, the last time their page was uploaded onto web.archive.org was way back in November 29, 2001 (here's the link to web.archive.org's database of Bridgestone Multimedia pages). According to Network Solutions, Bridgestone's .com site is going to expire on June 24, 2005, so until then they are still owned by them, if they don't renew, that means their dead. Why they keep holding on to this stuff is beyond me, it's not like their going to begin producing the tapes again .

 

There may be a 'Starpath on a Joystick' though.........In order to maintain royalty rights one must defend their copyright. If they dont it will turn into public domain.

[Tempest]

http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/rabbittransit/rabbittransit.htm

 

I like how he automatically assumes atari was working on some kind of deal, even though I have seen and head zero evidence to this, back in the day as well as now... I'm sure someone at Atari was just seeing if it could be done.

 

It's nothing to do with how hard it is to 'think that it may have been possible' all I am saying is that is simply a created fiction. However logical or potentially possible it MAY appear to us in hindsight, until I see -ANY- evidence to the contrary (of which none exists,) I will not create false assumptions.

 

Did I offend you somehow?

 

I'll admit that I do not know the specifics of what Atari and Starpath were planning, but all available evidence points to the fact that this was more than some employee simply seeing if it could be done. No only is there more than one (there are two known and possibly a third), but the cart itself is far too advanced for someone to just be screwing around. I'll make the review more clear.

 

Tempest

[CPUWIZ]

but the cart itself is far too advanced for someone to just be screwing around.

 

Just to clarify, the cart itself is nothing but a F8 bankswitched EPROM cart. No RAM or anything else. I opened the Rabbit Transit loaner I got from Dan Kramer (which is now in Marco's posession).

[Tempest]

Just to clarify, the cart itself is nothing but a F8 bankswitched EPROM cart. No RAM or anything else. I opened the Rabbit Transit loaner I got from Dan Kramer (which is now in Marco's posession).

 

Interesting. Still, I would think that for something to get this far along (the code was changed more than a little) that Atari would know about it. I could be wrong though. What we really need to do is ask the Starpath guys, if anyone would know for sure it would be them.

 

Tempest

[Godzilla]

Did I offend you somehow?

 

I'll admit that I do not know the specifics of what Atari and Starpath were planning' date=' but all available evidence points to the fact that this was more than some employee simply seeing if it could be done. No only is there more than one (there are two known and possibly a third), but the cart itself is far too advanced for someone to just be screwing around. I'll make the review more clear.

 

Tempest[/quote']

 

Heck no! Hell, I wouldn't even be able to have this discussion without your site, and the information there!

 

I simply haven't seen any evidence to an Atari/Starpath conjoining, outside of this cart itself (which to me is not enough to make assumptions on.) Is there some interoffice memos or other stuff that I'm not in on?

[SS]

Is there some interoffice memos or other stuff that I'm not in on?

 

Curt?

[Tempest]

Is there some interoffice memos or other stuff that I'm not in on?

 

Not that I've seen.

 

Tempest

[Thomas Jentzsch]

If Thomas is right and the game uses self-modifying code (do ALL Supercharger games do this?)...

I am not sure about all games, but Frogger definitely does. And I suppose most (or all) others do more or less too.

[mos6507]

I know Atari had an illegal prototype rom cart of rabbit transit, so it can be done. Maybe using that rom, one could figure out how to turn any supercharger game into an atari cart?

 

But that required a partial rewrite. The game is not identical after the rewrite. I remember reading about the differences somewhere.

 

And it wasn't an illegal prototype as far as I know. There was some kind of licensing deal in the works.

[mos6507]

Bridgestone Multimedia changed their company name. I can't remember off-hand what the new name is. Russ Perry Jr. might.

 

They should still be at the old office location in Arizona, though.

[Tempest]

But that required a partial rewrite. The game is not identical after the rewrite. I remember reading about the differences somewhere.  

 

And it wasn't an illegal prototype as far as I know. There was some kind of licensing deal in the works.

 

Yes the game code was modified to work on a cartridge (along with some other modifications). IMHO this was more than a simple case of a curious employee fiddling around with the idea of porting Starpath games to cartridge, Atari must have known what was going on. Otherwise this was a lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

I swear I also read somewhere that Atari and Starpath were looking into doing something together, but I can't remember where it was (just a blurb somewhere in a magazine article IIRC). Still, until I have solid evidence, I'll change my review.

 

Tempest