ma3a_operat0r Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 hey everybody...i know this is an open-ended (and kinda dumb) question, but i was wondering what resolution the 2600 was capable of. i know there's no fixed resolution (due to the nature of the TIA), but i was wondering what's the maximum, and what's typically used in a game (i.e. earlier games only drew on every second scanline). i'm guessing the maximum vertical resolution is 192, but what's the horizontal? thanks -duncan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Hi there! i'm guessing the maximum vertical resolution is 192, but what's the horizontal? Well, the vertical maximum depends on the # of lines your TV can sync. There's a theoretical horizontal maximum of 160 pixels though... Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma3a_operat0r Posted November 9, 2004 Author Share Posted November 9, 2004 thanks for that, manuel . i got the 192 because that's the number of visible scanlines on an NTSC TV, if i'm not mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Hi there! thanks for that, manuel . i got the 192 because that's the number of visible scanlines on an NTSC TV, if i'm not mistaken. AFAIK a modern NTSC TV can safely display up to 200 lines, maybe even more. 192 is just the recommended value from Ataris original programming documentation which was written 20+ years ago. Also you can do twice as many lines wih the VCS, using the recently discovered interlace technique. Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Well, the vertical maximum depends on the # of lines your TV can sync. To be correct, it depends on the # of lines your TV can display. This is varying depending on the TV modell and even the settings of the same modell. Something around 200 should work almost everywhere. The total number of lines (displayed + non-displayed) is critical for sync and should be around 262 for NTSC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 hey everybody...i know this is an open-ended (and kinda dumb) question, but i was wondering what resolution the 2600 was capable of. I believe this quote (source unknown) best sums it up: "The resolution is 160 by how fast your code is." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 What about the afformentioned interlace technique? Doesn't that change the 160 to a much higher number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 160 is the HORIZONTAL resolution, doofus. Interlacing increases VERTICAL resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 you can always count on zylon for a kind, caring, thoughtful response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 What about the afformentioned interlace technique? Doesn't that change the 160 to a much higher number? Yes, that would be roughly 400 or so visible scanlines. Interlaced video was designed to look okay with organic footate-- live action, and since modern videogames are a lot closer to live action than a 2600 game, it looks okay. Older systems, since the graphics they displayed were blocky and higher contrast, wouldn't look good in interlace. If you try to draw a white line on only one field over a black background then it's just going to look like 30hz flicker, which is all-too-familiar to 2600 gamers, but worse since it would be happening on the entire playfield. Animation at 60fps would yield comb effects or strobing effects in interlace. It's pretty hard to come up with a practical application for it. You could draw sprites that had wide but very very short pixels. Not sure what kinds of games would benefit from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Van Thorp Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Also you can do twice as many lines wih the VCS, using the recently discovered interlace technique.[/quote Interlacing is not a recent discovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 Hi there! Also you can do twice as many lines wih the VCS, using the recently discovered interlace technique.Interlacing is not a recent discovery. Uihjah... so which VCS game/demo older than Glenns or Billys recent experiments make the VCS display an interlaced screen? I really thought they where the first doing that. Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin242 Posted November 14, 2004 Share Posted November 14, 2004 It's pretty hard to come up with a practical application for it. You could draw sprites that had wide but very very short pixels. Not sure what kinds of games would benefit from that. how about a starfield? Stars are supposed to flicker... ummm, prob the best application would be for use in a title screen. Imagine if they had come up with interlacing onthe 2600 way back when.. I can imagine strip poker games and stuff like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Van Thorp Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Uihjah... so which VCS game/demo older than Glenns or Billys recent experiments make the VCS display an interlaced screen? I really thought they where the first doing that. I can't site an example, but I know that the guys at Atari were knowledgable in the inner workings of TV sets, and they had to have known that the 2600 was capable of interlaced video. The Commodore Amiga, created in the early 1980's by the original designer of the 2600, had an interlaced video mode. Not a recent discovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I can't site an example, but I know that the guys at Atari were knowledgable in the inner workings of TV sets,... Sure, that was never questioned. ...and they had to have known that the 2600 was capable of interlaced video. What makes you so sure about this? Do you have found any hints about the existance of such a knowledge? Don't forget, the 2600 hardware was never meant to do interlaced graphics. Many tricks about Atari programming (e.g. the 48 pixel routine) where discovered or developed many years after the inititial release of the 2600. And I am sure, there are still some tricks waiting to be discovered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Hi there! The Commodore Amiga, created in the early 1980's by the original designer of the 2600, had an interlaced video mode. Not a recent discovery. I don't get it. Yeah, interlacing was a built-in mode in the Amigas HAM modes, but what does this have to do with the 2600? Actually The first EMI developed televisions from 1935 already used interlacing! Here, type in a query for "interlaced" here: http://www.atariage.com/news/ and you'll see that the VCS interlacing technique was just discovered two years ago. I highly doubt that you find any earlier reference for that... Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigo Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I´m pretty sure they knew it could display interlaced graphics, why else would they have implemented the RSYNC Register into the TIA? Note: i speak about the hardware designers, not the software writers. They probably didn´t saw any use in using interlaced graphics back then, when display kernals consisted of 2 lines per update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Older systems, since the graphics they displayed were blocky and higher contrast, wouldn't look good in interlace. Actually, the Bally Astrocade/Professional Arcade generated a line-doubled interlaced display. Yielded very solid-looking graphics, at the price of slight interlace shear on horizontally-moving objects. As for Vigo, I'll yield his smackdown to an experienced 2600 programmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Hi there! Why else would they have implemented the RSYNC Register into the TIA? Well, the "Stella Programmer's Guide" says: "This address resets the horizontal sync counter to define the beginning of horizontal blank time, and is used in chip testing". Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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