Jagasian Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Kevin Horton is currently developing a new console gaming system based around a fully programmable gate array (FPGA), which is like a polymorphic circuit that can be re-designed on the fly over and over again. Currently he is working on a CPU-cycle perfect, pixel perfect recreation of the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES), and once he is done, he is going to add support for a CPU-cycle perfect, pixel perfect Atari 2600. Since the system is based on a FPGA, just as you can load games from small inexpensive SD flash cards, you can also load the circuit diagrams for a NES, 2600, or some other retro game system. It is something like emulation, but on a hardware level and 100% accurate (even the best software emulators aren't 100% accurate)... oh and you can use the original peripherials like joysticks, light guns, paddles, etc. The system is still under development, but hardcore 2600 fans will definitely want to keep track of it... if you are also a Famicom/NES fan, the more the merrier. The accuracy of the recreation of the original system's hardware and the ability to play games off of inexpensive SD flash cards, as well as the fact that a new Atari 2600 is being developed in the year 2005 makes this one strange beast. You can check out screenshots of tests of the NES games, as well as pictures of the actual hardware and circuit diagrams here (remember 2600 support will be added next): http://tripoint.org/kevtris/mappers/incoming/ Here is a thread which has several posts by Kevin giving some details about his creation: http://forums.cherryroms.com/viewtopic.php?t=3618 Note that some of the links in that thread will have to be manually copy-pasted into your browser, as the server doesn't like direct links to its images. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari-Jess Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Very exciting, I look forward to it, and please send my warm regards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 It's the ultimate evolution of Bankzilla. I think I've been calling it "NESzilla", but if he's been working on TIA support, it needs a new name like "Multizilla" or "Megazilla". I wonder if the FPGA will be big enough to include the Pitfall II sound chip. I'll taunt him on #rgvc to make sure he adds it. :-) Oh, and keep in mind that he's emulating the CPU too... there's no particular reason he can't do non-6502 systems other than the work to emulate a new CPU, and some of the non-6502 systems (Channel F and Intellivision) had wierd busses. I'd rather see him add Maria support before trying something non-6502. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 yea ive been drooling over this ever since kev first told me about it many moons ago. he said even obscure stuff like the astrocade and emerson arcadia was possible... I'm patient, but I also can't wait :-) kev and I share the dream of having one easy box that plays all the vintage stuff at a 100% hardware level, negating the need for a giant scary otcopus of systems connected to a tv :-) but hes actually doing something about it! go kevt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagasian Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 Calling it "emulation" does it a great disservice, in my opinion. It is basically recreating the CPU too. The limitation is that the FPGA does not have enough circuitry to be able to do really complicated stuff, like 16-bit generation systems. I bet it could do the Pitfall II sound chip, unless that chip requires analog circuitry. The other benefits over using an Xbox or PC with software based emulation is that Kevin's 2600 will be smaller, solid state (no noisy fans), and consume allot less electricity. Hey, maybe we will even see a portable version? My first gaming system was a 2600, and my second was a NES. Both defined video games for me. Hell, the 2600 was the first general purpose console gaming system! Everything before it had a few built in games, but were not general purpose like the 2600, right? Anyway, it will be nice to see a new 2600 being manufactured in the year 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Sounds cool, but what is this gizmo supposed to look like in it's finished form? Any renderings in that massive list of screenshots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Sounds cool, but what is this gizmo supposed to look like in it's finished form? Any renderings in that massive list of screenshots? He isn't designing the case 'til he's got the thing working like he wants. Right now it just looks like a breadboard with hand-mounted chips and circuitry. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susuwatari Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Such design could be made fairly small so it may be possible to build an SD based VCS portable. *drool* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Such design could be made fairly small so it may be possible to build an SD based VCS portable. *drool* Considering that the size of the board right now isn't much bigger than an NES cart I'd say that's perfectly possible. Throw in a small LIon battery (like those used on PDAs), charging circuitry, rectifier (to convert AC to DC), AC port, and leave room above it all for a 3.5" active matrix TFT screen and you'd be laughing. Of course, given the raw parts cost of Kev's unit as it is right now, I doubt he'd build it himself as the screen and battery alone would nearly double its cost, but I can't imagine it would be difficult to engineer for the average hacker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yuppicide Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I could do several systems emulated and if someone made a nice case and what not (maybe Ben Heck will get in on this) and a huge screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I could do several systems emulated and if someone made a nice case and what not (maybe Ben Heck will get in on this) and a huge screen. Well, he already has NES going, and will be working on adding SMS and 2600. He's alluded to the fact that there'd still be room for TG16 in the FPGA, too, so we may even see that. And given Kev's propensity for completeness and precision, it's likely he'll add the Pitfall chip in there, as well as whatever other proprietary hardware will ne necessary to run everything there is to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Wow, that's awesome, I got me a 256mb SD card for my cam, I can easily use that and be able to play all the atari games on that. I can't wait for that to come out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I'd probably buy an SD card just for the purpose, since all ROMs will likely have to sit in the root of the card. My other SD cards are used for my Palm, where file organization is relatively important (though not always possible with the way many sloppy coders design things to sit in the /Palm/Launcher/ directory -- imagine writing your own PC software such that the executable and any data/support files are all in the Windows directory. :-P) It'll definitely be cool though if he can pull this off for, say, $200-300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer raul Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 How would this be better than this? http://www.gbax.com/gp32review.html If you are looking for a portable unit... well... there it is... I plan on getting one pretty soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 How would this be better than this?http://www.gbax.com/gp32review.html If you are looking for a portable unit... well... there it is... I plan on getting one pretty soon... Easy. Its still emulated. With the console system, its real hardware. Total difference. Mainly, in sound and lag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer raul Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Well... when I get mine I'll post a review... So far all the emulators I have tried for the 2600 (stella & z26) are pretty darn good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagasian Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Sounds cool, but what is this gizmo supposed to look like in it's finished form? Any renderings in that massive list of screenshots? You might need to manually copy-paste these links into a new browser, because the server doesn't like direct links to images on it. As mentioned, the case or chasis for the system will be one of the last parts of the project. So right now you can look at his hand soldered circuit board: http://tripoint.org/kevtris/mappers/incomi...le_done_top.jpg http://tripoint.org/kevtris/mappers/incomi...done_bottom.jpg If Kevin can get the system mass produced, then the circuit board could have its ICs mounted by a machine, which would make it even cleaner looking, and he would be able to get a really nice looking case made for the system, so you would never have to look at the circuit board to begin with. I guess it will all depend on how interested we all are in the system, which would then help him get initial investment to actually fabricate systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagasian Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Well... when I get mine I'll post a review...So far all the emulators I have tried for the 2600 (stella & z26) are pretty darn good... Anybody who has been playing a real 2600 will be able to tell the difference between the real thing and the software emulators stella and z26. However, Kevin's new retro-console will be exactly like the real thing, down to the last CPU-cycle. Software emulators have slight differences in controls (even when using an adapter and original joysticks), sound, and video (even when hooked up to a TV). Furthermore, there are some games both 2600 and NES that do not run on the best software emulators because they exploit fine aspects of the systems hardware... and therefore only run on the real thing. Kevin's system will literally be just like the real thing. The differences will usually not be noticed by a casual gamer, but hardcore enthusiasts will appreciate Kevin's approach. Furthermore, even casual gamers will be able to appreciate the improved presentation and polish that comes with Kevin's ground-up approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagasian Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 I should also point out that the GP32 that you linked to cannot run most of that software listed in the review at full speed. The NES and SNES emulators, I know for a fact, do not run at full speed. Hence you have to use a high frame skip, which can cause problems and makes the graphics look like crap. The version of Quake they show running definitely does not run at a playable speed, where playable means at least 72 frames per second (long story, but that is the best minimum FPS for the original Quake). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 As mentioned, the case or chasis for the system will be one of the last parts of the project. So right now you can look at his hand soldered circuit board: http://tripoint.org/kevtris/mappers/incomi...le_done_top.jpghttp://tripoint.org/kevtris/mappers/incoming/console_done_bottom.jpg Looks nice! It does bring to mind my real question though: What controllers does it support and how will they plug in? I see what looks like two Atari 2600 style ports and 1 PC style joy port... Is there a NES port or will there need to be an adaptor needed to use them? (Then, of course, if it supports other systems, how will the controllers plug in for them?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer raul Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 LOL... be sure to copy & paste the links instead of clicking them to avoid the nice greeting... So then the GP32 is not a good portable solution for the 2600? That was my main attraction to the product... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Looks nice! It does bring to mind my real question though: What controllers does it support and how will they plug in? I see what looks like two Atari 2600 style ports and 1 PC style joy port... Is there a NES port or will there need to be an adaptor needed to use them? (Then, of course, if it supports other systems, how will the controllers plug in for them?) as I understand it he will make adapters as required to plug in whatever controllers are necessary that don't fit in the regular slot. From the look of things he'll have regular 9-pin DINs and then make an adapter for the NES (and TG16 if he adds it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagasian Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 Looks nice! It does bring to mind my real question though: What controllers does it support and how will they plug in? I see what looks like two Atari 2600 style ports and 1 PC style joy port... Is there a NES port or will there need to be an adaptor needed to use them? (Then, of course, if it supports other systems, how will the controllers plug in for them?) as I understand it he will make adapters as required to plug in whatever controllers are necessary that don't fit in the regular slot. From the look of things he'll have regular 9-pin DINs and then make an adapter for the NES (and TG16 if he adds it). Yes, and it is important to note that the system was designed from the ground-up with game controllers in mind, so making a NES adapter will be pretty basic, and there will be no lag whatsoever due to the adapter, as it will mainly just change the physical shape of the controller port to fit the NES peripherials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Hierophant Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 However, you must note that the NES and the 2600 have very different methods of reading controlle buttons. The NES uses a serial method to get the state of the buttons while the 2600 uses reads of the PIA & TIA I/O. The former needs only 5 live wires, the latter six wires. Add each system's other peripherals and it is clear why the console needs two sets of controller ports. However, there seems to be 2x 9-pin ports and 1x 15-pin port. Perhaps the 2600 controllers can use the 9-pin ports while the NES controllers can use the 15-pin port with a pin adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 The 15-pin is almost certainly a serial port, so your assumption is probably correct. An adapter (probably Y-split for two player action) would be simple to create for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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