CX52 handling alternatives.

[jnice]

This summer, I may (or may not) start learning programming for the Atari 8-bit computers, with my eventual goal being to make a new sports game for the Atari 5200.

 

After just recently purchasing the 5200 Tennis cartridge, I started wondering if there could've been a better controller setup. I think it's odd that you're expected to move your joystick AND press keypad buttons simultaneously!

 

I had a couple demo ideas I could try someday, involving controller setup. My idea would be graphically simple: A trapezoid to represent a tennis court, and a line in the middle to represent the net. The ball (a dot) would automatically serve to you or return to your side. I'd like to try two controller setup options:

 

1) Dual controller holder method: Maybe the left controls your player's movement, and the right controls your racket's angle?

2) Turning the CX52 joystick sideways: One hand controls the joystick, the other hand (using the thumb) hits the different keypad buttons to control types of shots.

 

Anyway, just a couple ideas I had. I know someone here a long time ago had mentioned how they'd like to see a dual controller option used on Tapper (one to move, one to dispense). Any other ideas for games with unique controller use? Maybe I'll try it, but I have a lot of reading to do first!

[sku_u]

It'd be nice to see someone make a Defender controller similar to the control setup in the arcades.

 

It'd also be nice to see a new controller configuration for Frogger and Frogger II. Under the current configuration, you have to either move the joystick and press fire simultaneously, or use the keypad (2,4,6, to move Frogger. I was thinking maybe utilizing a mock keypad and rig up 4 green buttons for up down left and right to replace the 2 4 6 8 keypad functions. Could be a pretty cool novelty.

[+Mitch]

I've heard the trackball works good for tennis, I haven't tried it myself though.

 

Mitch

[jnice]

Mitch: Yeah, I could totally see the trak ball being an advantage with that one.

 

sku_u: Those are interesting ideas. I know I'll be staying away from outright controller hacks, though.

 

I guess I started this thread to steal your basic game ideas that could use a dual controller setup, turn a controller sideways so one hand could control the stick and the other always near the keypad buttons, or some other bizarre misuse of the controls I haven't thought of yet.

 

For example, I wonder if a better football game could be made, if you could more easily access your bottom keypad buttons (three receivers instead of two with the fire buttons)?

 

I know that I won't be able to make anything graphically beautiful with my first attempts at programming. I'd probably like to focus on control at first, which could make my crude demos / games more interesting.

 

Somewhere in this forum, there's a thread about which books to use to begin learning machine language. I'll unearth that thread...in a few months.

[JB]

I like the idea of rotating the stick.

It hit my mind immediatly after playing Missile Conmand with it's pathetic single turret.

[jnice]

I like the idea of rotating the stick.  

It hit my mind immediatly after playing Missile Conmand with it's pathetic single turret.

 

Ah, a 3-base Missle Command. That would probably be an easier project to start before getting into more advanced stuff like sports games (ball physics). Whatever I come up with will probably be very crude (I couldn't sell any improved Missle Command anyway--Infogrames), but it would at least test the whole sideways holding idea. MC is also a fast-paced enough game to where I could see if the keypad buttons would be responsive enough to still make the game fun or not. A good test project, definitely.

[jnice]

I just experimented with how it feels to hold a controller sideways. To have any stability, at least one finger (the pinky finger) needs to go underneath where the cord enters the controller. While the hand controlling the keypad buttons (the "*", "0" and "#" keys being pressed by the thumb) would be an excellent alternative, it's the other hand which becomes the problem.

 

You'd only have your thumb and first finger to move the stick, with the other fingers being used for holding the controller. While it's not difficult to move the stick, it's hard to move the stick as far as it will go in any given direction. Additionally, it seems like I can't move the stick as quickly as I could in the other way.

 

The need for joystick precision and good fire button response makes me think Missle Command probably wouldn't be the ideal game to use this setup, but I think a football game would definitely work!

 

I guess, if someone was curious enough, they could either:

1) Hack the original Missle Command by changing the control scheme (X and Y coordinates--or whatever) and changing the bottom fire button to the zero button on the keypad. If the gameplay isn't too bad, someone could then go further and add two more bases and add the star and number keys to fire from those bases (I'm sure this step would take some work). OR...

2) Rewire a 5200 controller. Switch the two potentiometers around somehow, and get the zero key to work the same as the bottom fire button. If gameplay is decent with the hacked controller, then the programming hack can begin. This is only a good option if you have a lot of spare CX52's around and nothing better to do with them.

[jnice]

Here's that NES Max controller I was talking about:

 

 

The left thumb controlled a sliding mechanism. I suppose a 5200 controller hack could be made to come up with something similar. I always hated the Max controller, though, because it DIDN'T CENTER (sound familiar?)!

 

Anyway, I mentioned this because, if someone was able to come up with a hack to change the stick into a slider-thingy, it would only require the thumb for use and, in theory, should make it easier to move around the screen more quickly.

 

So much for trying to stay out of hack discussions.

[JB]

I just experimented with how it feels to hold a controller sideways.  To have any stability, at least one finger (the pinky finger) needs to go underneath where the cord enters the controller.  While the hand controlling the keypad buttons (the "*", "0" and "#" keys being pressed by the thumb) would be an excellent alternative, it's the other hand which becomes the problem.

I was actually thinking set it down on a coffee table and use it like an arcade stick.

 

You'd only have your thumb and first finger to move the stick, with the other fingers being used for holding the controller.  While it's not difficult to move the stick, it's hard to move the stick as far as it will go in any given direction.  Additionally, it seems like I can't move the stick as quickly as I could in the other way.

Strangely enough, I USUALLY use that sort of grip on my 5200 stick.

 

Or even stranger, use it as a thumbstick.

It's an odd height, but it's short enough for my thumb, and the depression on the stick is perfect. And it's tall enough that you get more precision than other thumbsticks.