2600 vs. NES vs other hobbies ???

[kennercanada]

Having just entered this hobby of collecting classic video games and

systems, I have started to notice some trends that I have found pretty odd.

My greatest passion is collecting vintage Star Wars toys (1977-1985).

In that hobby people are generally looking for the toys still in

their blister packaging or boxes. People who collect Star Wars toys loose

are seen as fringe collectors. It seems to me that with classic video

games the opposite seems true. That "true collectors" buy their games

loose, so they can play them and that anyone who buys or collects,

sealed MIB games is somewhat lesser of a collector. Is this assessment

correct?

 

Another question I have is the 2600 vs Nintendo mentality. Strolling

around at a local flea market this past weekend I noticed that at the

3 or 4 videogame booths I passed, the NES cartridges were the "glamour

pieces" and the 2600 carts were treated like red-headed step children.

All the NES carts were priced at $10 and up behind glass while the Atari cartridges were priced to sell at $2 each no matter what the title all loosely piled in the junk bins. Is collecting

for the Atari 2600 more of a niche market? I can't see it as being

a supply issue as I am pretty positive in my limited knowledge of

video games I am pretty sure that more Nintendo games are available

to the general public than 2600 ones. I am also pretty positive that

there are less sealed copies of 2600 Pitfall (a groundbreaking and

very relevant game) than a Final Fantasy (another groundbreaking game),

yet if you were to find them on Ebay the difference in price would be

$500...on the side of Final Fantasy. Why is this?

 

I look forward to everybodys thoughts, opinions, and arguments, in

helping me understand this hobby better. If I am way off base on

any of my thoughts, please LMK.

 

Jim

[joeybastard]

I think you've got the first part backwards. I, myself am more of a player than a collector. I buy games to play first and collect second. I don't care if the labels are bad, I don't care about boxes. It's nice if it's complete but that's secondary. I also will not spend $40 on anything for the VCS. You're hardcore collectors spend 10x(and more) to complete their collections, want good labels, manuals, boxes, etc.

 

As for NES vs. Atari prices, it depends on the area I think. I've see NES games very cheap and very expensive and the same goes for the VCS. I think at this point the NES may be more popular to collect for so higher demand = higher prices.

 

I'm no expert though, it should be interesting what others have to say.

[StanJr]

Having just entered this hobby of collecting classic video games and  

systems, I have started to notice some trends that I have found pretty odd.

My greatest passion is collecting vintage Star Wars toys (1977-1985).

In that hobby people are generally looking for the toys still in

their blister packaging or boxes.  People who collect Star Wars toys loose  

are seen as fringe collectors.  It seems to me that with classic video

games the opposite seems true.  That "true collectors" buy their games

loose, so they can play them and that anyone who buys or collects,

sealed MIB games is somewhat lesser of a collector.  Is this assessment

correct?  

 

 

I don't really think so. I don't think there is the perception of a "true collector" in the VCS hobby. Some collectors collect to play, some to just collect. I've not noticed any distinction. I do know what you are talking about with the Star Wars vintage toys though, that I have seen. I just don't think it holds the same for the VCS.

[Lord Helmet]

I collect to play first. I do have some sealed NIB games, but they only stay sealed if I already have a cart loose.

[RangerG]

A few people collect sealed games, but the vast majority want to play their games (or at least test the game). I think those that like loose vs. wanting box and manual are pretty split with the those that focus on finding games in the wild happy with no box, but many collectors liking the look of a room full of boxed games. However, don't think mint condition doesn't matter - there are plenty of us that want the best label possible on a game. Also, if you go to a videogame convention I think you would see that Atari is huge and a really a focus of collecting. At the flea market, used videogame stores, and pawns the market has somewhat moved to NES in that that is what the teens/college/young adult think of us as retro. I know at the university here on "flea market" days they regularly sell NES games and they are seen as cool and quite popular while Atari is more just something they have heard about and fun to look at, but it wouldn't sell.

[CPUWIZ]

but many collectors liking the look of a room full of boxed games.

 

[NovaXpress]

The more recent the system, the more people alive who have nostalgia for it. Simple as that. Watermark systems like the 2600, NES, and Playstation will each have more fans than the previous generation.

 

In another 5 years or so the NES classic scene is gonna dwarf the 2600 classic scene.

[Flojomojo]

What's the point of debating who is more of a "true" collector, anyway? In the eyes of 99% of the public, you're all nerds.

 

Loose, common Star Wars toys are like unboxed common Atari games. They're fun to play with, and they're common because they were popular. Give me a loose Darth or R2 and Berzerk and Frogger instead of a sealed Amanaman and Chase the Chuckwagon any day. There's absolutely positively no contest there for me.

 

I like new toys too. The big Red Leader X-Wing is a better toy than the stumpy vintage original remake. The Atari Anthology for XBOX is better than the Atari Flashback.

 

IT'S ALL GOOD.

 

[Ze_ro]

It seems to me that with classic video games the opposite seems true.  That "true collectors" buy their games loose, so they can play them and that anyone who buys or collects, sealed MIB games is somewhat lesser of a collector.  Is this assessment correct?

Well, I think "true collector" is a poor choice of terms in this case... I'd say the hobby is divided into a spectrum with "players" (who aren't usually interested in boxes, manuals, or condition of items) on one side, and "collectors" (who MUST have sealed, complete collections in pristine condition). Everyone sort of falls somewhere in the middle.

 

I would, however, say that the majority of people are likely to be on the "player" side of the spectrum. In fact, some people might even consider "true collector" to be a bit of an insult, as if you're saying that they only collect for the sake of the collection, rather than for the joy of the game.

 

Is collecting for the Atari 2600 more of a niche market?

Well... it's hard to compare the 2600 to the NES in this respect. The younger generation of gamers who likely cut their teeth on the Super NES (or newer) generally look down on older games as being technically inferior and obsolete... to them, the NES is classic, but the 2600 is just old junk... NES cartridges are like records, and 2600 cartridges are like 8-tracks. The "Old Guard" seems to be gradually fading away (not around here of course, but on most video game forums, 2600 players are a dying breed), and being replaced by younger gamers who are largely ignorant of the 1st generation of games, can't get nostalgic about things they never actually experienced in the first place, and don't seem to get the same thrill out of games that likely seem very limited and shallow to them. The division in this case is likely the Great Crash in the early 80's... anything that came before that seems to have a bit of a stigma attached to it.

 

--Zero

[sandmountainslim]

NES dwarf the 2600 scene? Geez I hope not, I do love to play the NES but the Atari is definately the daddy of all consoles.

[Zonie]

I've noticed the runup of the NES stuff and a falling by the wayside of Atari stuff too. Here is my take.

 

I am in my late 30's. I had and still have my 2600. I got it when I was in 6th or 7th grade. In the 90's I played with an NES that a friend had, but I didn't care much for it. I was also in my 20's so my priorities were different.

 

I think the folks collecting the NES stuff are perhaps a later generation than myself. In other words, they were in junior high when the NES came out. So naturally, they are the generation that is coming into their own, starting families, and getting into the nostalgic stuff of their youth.

 

Means more atari stuff for mois at a lower price.

 

my two cents...

 

Any comments??? Buhler? Buhler?

[hex65000]

Many excellent points. I'll simply toss in my own behavior patterns and make of it what you will.

The Star Wars analogy is adquate, but I feel that it strikes better with the Transformers series of toys. (A line I love ever so and when I have actual money collect pretty rabidly.) The problem occurs when you get that toy and it is in one mode out of two or more possible modes. What do you do? Keep it in the box where its 'resale value' will be much more than a loose figure? Or do you open it and actually transform the toy, getting to know the mechanical intracasies(sp!) of the peice and enjoying the stimulation it brings to you and your imagination?

 

The similarity is this: you can leave the Transformer or the game in the sealed box and say you have the item, but until you have opened the box, you have not experinced the item. I like having boxed Transformers (I have many), but to not have a loose one is not doing the toy justice. IMO, the same thing applies to cartridge gaming. I will strive to have the nicest cartridge in the best box I can find -- typically, once I have a box and a book that's decent it becomes very subjective as to me upgrading my collection and that game will either be purchaced because it's good trade bait, is obviously better than my own copy, or I forgot I owned a copy (done this too many times to count. ) However, I dont actively seek out sealed cart games, in the majority of cases. In most cases I'd want to open it and you could hear people having heart attacks across the country. Unless it's ET maybe.

 

Wow, I can't beleive I wrote that -- seems all fluffy bunnies cosmic awareness or something eh?

 

Hex.

[ Donut? What kind of a name is Donut? ]

[RangerG]

This is an interesting topic in that I too believe that NES has overtaken Atari in what most think of as classic games and that the 2600 will only fade. It isn't that the 2600 won't have a hardcore following, fans, and homebrews for years to come, but the new nostalgia is the NES. Conventions and websites like this will continue supporting Atari and pre-crash systems, but just from talking with college students and vendors I think NES is where the classic scene is. I have seen college students buy the NES toasters and games for their dorms and it is quite popular and retro cool while Atari is considered dated (I like the 8-track/record analogy - good one Zero!).

 

Take care,

RG

[Bruce Tomlin]

There's definitely very little "fanboy collecting" (must be unopened / bagged & boarded / MINT DON'T TOUCH IT! condition) in classic video games collecting, and it's partly because all but the most common stuff is hard to find in new condition, but also because video game collecting has a very strong thrift store / flea market tradition behind it.

 

In contrast, mainstream comic book and licensed toy collecting prefers "unopened" items to the point that it's relatively easy to find stuff that's 10-15 years old and still unopened or in like-new condition. The late '80s - early '90s were the age of people bagging and boarding comics like crazy, no matter how crap the art or writing were, on the misguided assumption that just because they were in perfect condition, the value would automatically go up. I managed to pick me up the first dozen or two issues of Shatter cheap and in perfect condition. I got them because I liked Mike Saenz's use of MacPaint for the artwork. Meanwhile all the fanboi were still drooling over the latest Superman/X-Men plot complication.

 

What's the difference? Think about what started comics and toy collecting... stuff was rare because it got used and because parents threw stuff out. Kids grew up and wanted all the stuff they couldn't have when they were a kid. It's the same with video games. I got started a couple of years after I discovered thrift shopping. When I started to trip over piles of 2600 carts back in the summer of 1995 (or was it 1993?), I decided I would try to get "one of each". And I never stopped collecting.

 

Cartridge based video games didn't even exist until 1976 or so. Again, stuff got used, and stuff got thrown out. Most people threw out the boxes right away except for certain systems with nice boxes (Intellivision, SMS, Genesis). At least when cartridges got thrown out, they didn't go straight into landfills like comic books did. Only in the past few years have "average" people thought about keeping game boxes and instructions around, and that's because resale stores know people who buy used games prefer complete stuff.

 

Also, comic books (and CCGs too, for that matter) are just printed paper and cheap to make... and easy to over-print. Modern video games actually cost real money (even on clearance, you can't get them new for less than $5). Over-printing of video games caused The Crash in 1984, and the industry has learned to control supply, so there aren't nearly as many opportunities for wholesale speculeeching.

 

While it's nice to find something shrinkwrapped, most of the video game collectors who care about shrinkwrapped stuff still want an opened copy to play with. I myself think of the shrinkwrapped copy as another part of the same item, along with the cartridge and instructions of an opened copy. It's a substitute for an opened box, but not for having a loose cartridge that I can put in a nice compact stack with dozens of other cartridges. I do like to keep as many original parts of something together as I can when I open it, though. For instance, I carefully remove the dogbone stickers and price stickers of new DVDs, and stick them inside the case under the booklet.

 

And the visual effect of a stack of cartridges showing their end labels just can't be beat.

 

Anyhow, I've been collecting for a decade and I still enjoy the thrill of the hunt. I've got over 300 2600 carts somewhere that I haven't unpacked yet (I moved 3 1/2 years ago and am still digging out stuff), and I've got over 300 NES carts in a couple of boxes as my two biggest collections. Just this past weekend I had a nice thrift store find, including a game that I had been wishing for more than a year that I could find.

[Flack]

That's the great thing about this hobby -- there are no rules! You can collect Combat carts for all anyone cares! It's all up to you, what you want to do and what you want to get out of it.

 

Personally, I collect boxed Star Wars toys and opened videogames. Do the opposite, do both, do neither. Regardless of what you do, you're going to die poor and wonder why the heck you blew your 401k on videogames. Might as well spend it on ones you can play, IMHO.

[spacecadet]

This is an interesting topic in that I too believe that NES has overtaken Atari in what most think of as classic games and that the 2600 will only fade.

 

Well, they're both just at different points in the cycle. Every popular console goes through it. It goes something like this:

 

During production, obviously prices are pretty normal.

 

Just after production ends, prices drop across the board. Within 5 years, prices for many games have hit near rock-bottom prices, hardware can usually be had for twenty bucks.

 

10-15 years after production ends, most prices start to go back up as nostalgia kicks in as the supply continues to dwindle. Many people still actively play the system, trying to hold on to past memories.

 

15 years after production ends, the wheat starts getting separated from the chaff - common game prices stabilize, rare game prices start heading through the roof. Systems are usually still pretty cheap, though. This is when both new collectors move in, and nostalgia gamers either finally give up on the system or convert and become collectors themselves.

 

20-25 years after production ends, common game prices take another sharp drop and then stabilize again - that's likely where they'll end up for years to come. Rare games stay high, and the rarest games head to astronomical levels. System prices rise as supplies dwindle and hardcore collectors scoop up the best remaining ones. This is the true "collector" phase, when very few people still actually play the system on a regular basis, but more people collect for it for whatever personal reason they have.

 

This pattern seems to be pretty consistent among the top consoles. Obviously there are some variations depending on the size of a system's game library and the duration a system was on the market, but it seems like the down, then up, then down, then up thing happens to most of them, with an increasing disparity over time between the prices of common and rarer games.

 

The 2600 is at the point where common games are as cheap as they're ever gonna be, and that's pretty cheap. System prices are going up, though - a heavy sixer now will often go for more than it did when new, and even a common four switch model will sell for $50 when you used to be lucky to get ten or fifteen bucks for them. The really rare games are really expensive. It's definitely in the hardcore collector phase.

 

The NES is just hitting the nostalgia phase, when pretty much everything goes up in price for a little while. Just ride it out if you want, things will calm down in another 5 years or so. On the other hand, the rarer games will probably never be any cheaper than they are now - as expensive as they probably seem at this point, they'll probably only cost more later.

 

This is why I'm trying to collect for the Genesis right now. It's at rock-bottom at the moment, price-wise. The SNES is getting there too. But eventually they'll hit the nostalgia phase too - the Genesis is almost there, I think, and the rarer games are already starting to pass their original MSRP's...

[jeepnut24]

We couldn't get them as kids, so now I buy as many as I can.

 

Un boxed if I can because I like to use them a bit. Especially titles I didn't get to play as a kid.

 

The boxed collections are cool and I always enjoy seeing a room full of them, but Id rather give new life to old games by enjoying them ocassionally.

[kennercanada]

Great responses guys and keep em coming. Nothing like seeing a thought provoking question in a forum The answer have been really well thought out. Kudos to all, in helping me understand things.

 

Jim

[keilbaca]

Hmm, other hobbies as a kid... I used to yoyo, well I still do. Here's a link to my best trick I can do! Trust me its not walk the dog or rock the baby either...

 

http://premium1.uploadit.org/keilbaca/Cold-Fusion.zip

 

Enjoy!

[sandmountainslim]

I dont believe the NES nostalgia has really kicked in around here yet cuz the cheapest I have saw a working 2600 was $35 and in the past month I have bought four NES consoles for under five bucks each, got one this afternoon for $1 after haggling the girl down from $2! However I dont expect prices like this to last forever

[screamin1]

Judging from the previous posts it looks like the majority of collectors in this hobby lean towards "players" vs. "collectors". Myself, I migrated from being a player to being a collector. Like nearly everyone I started collecting because of my evil parents. While all my friends had Atari 2600s, I had nothing and had to beg my friends to play. It took begging too as they got bored of some of the games because they could play whenever they wanted. Finally around 1984 my folks bought me a 5200 for which I am ever grateful. Still I always wanted the 2600. Now I make good dinero and can afford the 2600 and games I always wanted. I started off with a decent woody and 20 or so common games. Fun playing, but technologically it began to bore me after awhile. So, I moved into the "collector" realm, because I feel that in about 10 years or so the prices will really move up. I concentrate on rarity 5's and up and specifically on boxed titles. These are all in shorter supply and when demand goes up the prices will as well. In fact I am at the point where I have almost no common games and just boxes full of boxed and rare games. The baby boomers are driving up the prices of 50s era items and I think our generation will drive up 80's era items in the near future. Having the rarer titles only makes sense to me. I will buy any rare title if I can get it at what I consider a bargain. I would rather have 10 copies of Chase the Chuckwagon than 10 complete systems and 200 common carts. Just my 2 cents.

[awsomo3000]

Id say that im more of a player, I like my games to be in good condition though and i think its neat if i get a rare one, but id rather have a fun common game then a boring rare game if ya know what I mean

[awsomo3000]

The younger generation of gamers who likely cut their teeth on the Super NES (or newer) generally look down on older games as being technically inferior and obsolete... to them' date=' the NES is classic' date=' but the 2600 is just old junk... NES cartridges are like records, and 2600 cartridges are like 8-tracks. --Zero[/quote'']

 

My first system was a super nes but ive always liked the older system and had an intrest in them. I wanted an atari since i was very small and i always kinda thought of nes games as junk . I dont know about everyone else but i always considered the atari the supperior system for collecting.But that dosnt mean i wouldnt collect the nes if i got the chance.

[sandmountainslim]

I am 34 so naturally I have memories of both systems, the VCS from my preteen and early teen years and the NES from high school however recently say the past three weeks or so I have found myself playing the NES more than the Atari, maybe its just because I bought a Game Genie, I hope thats all it is as I am starting to feel guilty about it, anyone else go thru fits of NES and recover from it?

[Godzilla]

without really reading anything in this thread, in reply simply to the topic line,

 

2600 RULES!!!

 

thank you, and goodnight.