Could a company "bring back" the 7800?

[KAZ]

I'm naive when it comes to business stuff, but is it hypothetically possible for a company to "remake" the Atari 7800, using the same schematics?

 

Or is Atari stuff copyrighted so that no company can ever try to copy that technology?

 

Perhaps no company would ever want to do this in the current climate of 1 bazzillion bit systems.

 

I suppose, however, even IF a company did this it wouldn't be "the same" as the original Atari 7800.

[welshleo]

It's not such a crazy idea, although it's unlikely for a games system. The basic schematics for the 7800 and other Atari systems is available on the web and I've no doubt that many of the homebrew 2600 portables have been created with the help of these documents.

 

I did wonder about this question myself a short while ago and tried to find a system that could be easily reproduced with stock components. The closest I got to was the 'issue one' 16K Sinclair Spectrum, which I have. But even this simple beast has a custom chip. However, it is a relatively simple one to reverse engineer and possibly to simulate with a GAL programmable logic chip.

 

On the Atari front things are a little more complicated, although again it may be possible to do something with these programmable logic chips. On the 7800, the Maria chip is without doubt the more complicated processor. Reverse engineering and simulating or duplicating this chip would be the key to relaunching the 7800.

 

Copyright is again a little tricky. However, since Hasbro were keen to relinquish the rights to the Jaguar into the public domain, it may be that Infogrames might be willing to do the same for other systems. Then again, matters become even more muddled if you have a team of engineers willing and able to reverse engineer the 7800 in a 'clean room' environment. This is how people (Compaq especially) were able to bypass IBM's copyright on their BIOS in the first PC systems and therefore launch their own rival PC systems.

 

On the Atari 8-bit range, as long as costs could be kept to a minimum, it would be quite feasible to relaunch the system as an educational system. My 9 year old niece was given a V-Tech educational computer system for christmas 2000. When I took a look at it, it looked very much like an 8-bit system. I haven't had a look inside it but it may use a 6502 ... although I suspect it's more likely to be a 65816 or Z80 - assuming that it uses a stock 8-bit processor.

[KAZ]

Maybe what I'm asking is if anyone could make improved cartridges that would work on the 7800.

 

I think the console itself doesn't need any tinkering. But the last 7800 console was created back in 1990. So it might be good to "remanufacture" them exactly as they were so the components wouldn't be so aged.

 

So this hypothetical company would be in the business of selling better classic games that work on old systems.

 

I have heard of people "homebrewing" games for Atari 2600, and I think I've heard of people recently creating new games for the Atari 7800.

 

I suppose because of copyright, Donkey Kong Junior or any game that currently exists for the 7800 couldn't ever be "improved".

 

[ 05-11-2002: Message edited by: KAZ ]

[Ugclone]

i would say the possibility to revive would be there. Remanufacturing the system would take some work and i don't think the legal mumbo jumbo would be to hard to work out, if you actually needed to do it. There was a 2600 clone called the Gemeni and if i remember correctly they won a court battle against Atari for the right to make the machine.

 

"I suppose because of copyright, Donkey Kong Junior or any game that currently exists for the 7800 could ever be "improved"."

 

actually it could be done. My computer actually came with clones of classic games all of which are nicely (although slightly)updated. To my knowledge all you would have to do is slightly change the name of the game. my computer has some examples for ya

 

Asterock

centiped-em

galagon

galaxia

kong

invaders

Ms Pac-Em

Pac-Em

 

of course the titles are close enough to the originals for people to recognize and purchase them.

it could be done..a bit pricey but possible.

[KAZ]

As time goes on, I would think that classic game systems would become more and more popular, because they represent a history of where games started. The lowest popularity Atari probably had was like in 1987-1992, when the system(s) seemed be dying off, and systems that were close their technology were making their debut. But now, Atari isn't competing with any system, so I think that's why it is getting stronger in popularity. Xbox and company are in another league. Atari games are fun for a different reason than eye candy.

 

It is funny, as technology advances even more, I wonder if we'll see a system that can DO IT ALL. Play any game on any old system. Kinda based on emulators that are already out today, except somehow more sophisticated.

[Robbins1940]

Yes a company could release the games that never came out like for example Garfield and they could be numbered on the back of the box.

 

Imagine it; The hamilton Collection presents the Atari 2600 Collection.

 

Your chance to own the games that were never released. Limited to 10,000 or something at £30 each.

 

Just a thought.

 

David

[AtariKen64]

i could easily see infogrames releasing 20 or so 7800 games in a handheld contoler type system similar to what activision did last year. and it would sell

[mos6507]

I think the only form-factor that makes sense if the intention is to clone the actual hardware is a portable.

 

In the console world, the current consoles are more than adequate at emulating the 2600 at full speed and accuracy if necessary.

[Trebor]

quote:

---

actually it could be done. My computer actually came with clones of classic games all of which are nicely (although slightly)updated. To my knowledge all you would have to do is slightly change the name of the game. my computer has some examples for ya

 

Asterock

centiped-em

galagon

galaxia

kong

invaders

Ms Pac-Em

Pac-Em

---

 

 

Ahhh, you mean ChampGames:

http://www.champ-em.com/

 

 

Before emulation of Arcade games (DasArcade - Pre-MAME), these were the *BEST* versions to have, IMHO. In fact, I purchased Ms. Pac-em and Kong. To bad they stop putting out great titles. I was looking forward to Burger-Chef (Burgertime) and Frog (Frogger).

 

-Trebor

[Viso]

It seems doubtful to me that a company could start making new 7800 games. A company would want to make a profit, and if it was making games with full-time employees, it may well have to pay $45k to $60k per year salaries to one or two people. It could be done part-time, but then you have to convince people to make the games in their spare time. I think most people willing to do that are already making the games.

[+Propane13]

Also, you have to consider the market for 7800 games. It's a very-- targeted audience. I had a 7800 as my main system as a kid, and that's why it's my favorite (which I assume is the same for most posters to this message-board). However, for people who pick one up while collecting, a lot of the history is missing, and it probably looks like "just another system". I'd probably feel the same way if I just inherited or found an XE. Would I buy homebrew games for it? Probably not.

 

Plus, some of my friends swear that they never saw the 7800 in stores, to begin with, and thought it was a ghost.

 

So, if the best you could do would be to release, say, 200 copies per 4 months per programmer, that's not a lot of money to be made. 600 carts per year with a $50 built-in profit (not including hardware costs) would lead to $30,000 per year per programmer, which isn't too much (no benefits).

 

So, I agree. Though I'd love to see the 7800 reborn, I don't think it'll make financial sense.

 

-John K. Harvey

[Atari 7800.com]

All this stuff you guys are talking about... manufacturing new Atari 7800s, publishing new games for it...we've looked into it. I mean seriously looked in to it with financial investors and all the fun business stuff. Reproducing the Atari 7800 would be a wonderful thing, but unfortunately it requires too many unique and antiquated chips in the motherboard from specific asian manufacturers whom Jack Tramiel never payed when they made the chips for the first batch of 7800s. These companies are not willing to produce these chips again unless we (or someone else) pay them the debt they are owed from the Tramiels, which is a stagering figure. Not to mention having to pay for dies to be made to mold new plastic shells, etc. Its all very expensive and it would be very difficult to do. But that doesnt totally rule it out either.

 

As far as games go....just sit tight.

 

Justin

Atari 7800.com

[Atari-Jess]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atari7800.com:

unfortunately it requires too many unique and antiquated chips in the motherboard from specific asian manufacturers whom Jack Tramiel never payed when they made the chips for the first batch of 7800s. These companies are not willing to produce these chips again unless we (or someone else) pay them the debt they are owed from the Tramiels, which is a stagering figure.

---

 

 

That right there scares me.

[Atari 7800.com]

Another issue I forgot to mention was the rights to the name "Atari 7800." Initially, it was a registered trademark of Atari Inc. under Warner Communications, and then also Atari Corp, under Jack Tramiel. However the Tramiels, infamous for lots of things, never really seemed to care much about keeping track of paperwork. (I once heard somebody quote one of Jack's former secretarys as saying "Mr. Tramiel isn't to be bothered with such things as paperwork." pretty scarry huh?)

 

Since Jack owned Atari it has been sold to JTS (1996) then Hasbro (1998?) and then most recently to Infogrames. However the paperwork dating back to 1984 is a MESS. If someone (and their lawyer) were to call up Infogrames and ask about purchasing the rights to the 7800, they probabally wouldnt be interested, mainly because they would have nothing to give you that actually proves ownership or copyright of the 7800 name. However, you could (if you sunk the money into development and everything) produce a 7800 clone system and call it the 7800 and just pray that they dont sue. So it's really a double-edged sword, and a pretty bad situation.

 

To anyone who can sink whatever it takes into making a new 7800, im behind you 100%

 

Justin

[Viso]

I really have no dislike of the 7800 -- I'm working on some hardware gizmo now that I decided early on had to support it -- but I don't see making a new 7800 clone as anything but an odd academic exercise until there are more really great games for the system.

 

Besides, if someone wanted to make a console for classic games, they might do better to see it as an exercise in making a new cheap console rather than make a clone. The option to chose modern parts alone would make it much easier. A much faster processor could be used without bringing up the price much, if at all, and could allow for games written in C, which means more games sooner. And ethernet could be used to download software -- you don't really want to use cartridges again. Even a clone of a 7800 should try to address that problem.

[scrummy]

I think the best hope for Retro gaming is a very easy to use multi-system emulator.

This could be release for PS2, X-box, PC.

It would be really convienent to have all the games you would ever want to play, already hooked to the TV.

Once they add the harddrive to the PS2, and GameCube, you could even update your rom collections. What is needed is a No brains needed User interface to make it to the mainstream.

[Viso]

scrummy, with the Linux kit for the Playstation 2, running things like Stella and MAME on the PS2 is not far away. I wouldn't be surprised if a recompile alone wasn't enough, but someone who knows what they're doing shouldn't have much trouble.

 

As for the X-Box, as soon as someone can get Linux running on it, the already existing x86 binaries of Stella and MAME my run fine on it. I'm sure someone is trying to get Linux running on it. I may well buy an X-Box then because MS losses money on it

[scrummy]

Viso,

 

I agree totally and find it ironic myself that the company MS and their X-Box, which I have had a "thing" against may be the very console that allows for the greatest growth for retrogaming.

I had thought that a PC in a small box would be a great way to make a new console that would use a menu system to allow one to play

all the most popular roms from many systems would be a great thing, but from prices out components, I realized that one could really not do better than MS has with the price of the XBOX. If anyone visiting these forums knows of any new developments on running MAME or MESS on a XBOX, please share the news, as I will be buying an XBOX the day I learn that this is possible.

[AtariDude]

I think having a Atari 7800 workalike would be a cool idea but financially it would be a major investment. I think Microsoft tried to buy Infogrames at one point so it makes sense that if they did, they could create an emulator to work with their Xbox. They might use that as a marketing ploy to show how versatile the Xbox is.

[Curt Vendel]

I'm naive when it comes to business stuff, but is it hypothetically possible for a company to "remake" the Atari 7800, using the same schematics?

 

Or is Atari stuff copyrighted so that no company can ever try to copy that technology?

 

Perhaps no company would ever want to do this in the current climate of 1 bazzillion bit systems.  

 

I suppose, however, even IF a company did this it wouldn't be "the same" as the original Atari 7800.

 

Actually, thought I'm not allowed to say who yet.... there is an Atari resaler who has been working for the last 8-9 months feverishly to have new 7800's made, he's getting very close to have new Maria chips and such made and contacts me from time to time with questions or with a status.... its been a very uphill battle but he's been extremely serious about getting this done, I hope he's able to do it.

 

 

Curt

[Viso]

I hope the project succeeds, Curt. It would also be really nice if it had S-Video out, RCA audio out, and the ability to play games that are not on cartridges. I've occasionally thought about trying to fix that last issue using ethernet, TCP/IP, and either FTP or HTTP. It is possible, but wouldn't be easy, and I'm busy with another project at the moment.

 

Still, any new Atari console that doesn't need to have games on cartridges is assured to get a few sales, almost no matter how it's done. I just hope it doesn't require a Windows PC somewhere.