So... What IS the deal with Air Raid??

[deathtrappomegranate]

I do collect pirate carts, but I do not pay more than $20 for any of them.  They are not as interesting to me as a legitimate release is and are definitely not worth $2K-$3K to me.  :wink:

 

Understood. I suppose that the question, then, is "What's a pirate?"

 

Degree of similarity of code? Case/label/TV format?

 

It probably comes down to individual judgement, although I suspect that a straight rip-off, or NTSC/PAL conversion, would not rank highly on the wantlists of most collectors.

 

Lost Monkey has a good point too, albeit tough to read

 

The Air Raid debacle makes me appreciate the 8-bit scene more, since there are fewer concerns about label variations, especially where carts are concerned. Disks and cassettes are a different matter, though.

[sku_u]

 

The Air Raid debacle makes me appreciate the 8-bit scene more, since there are fewer concerns about label variations, especially where carts are concerned. Disks and cassettes are a different matter, though.

 

True, but with the VCS, there are probably about 1000-2000 games out there (including significant hacks) that can be considered original. With the 8-bits, you probably have over 10,000 different games, including hacks and need to figure out where the program/game line is. I don't think I want to tackle that one.

[davepesc]

That would fall under the list of reasons not to collect video games for profit.

 

BTW, Lost Monkey, did you check your inbox today?

[video game addict]

I wouldn't want to spend $2-3K on a cart I couldn't play. Hundreds maybe, but thousands, no way.

[davepesc]

Doh, I didn't see page 2!

 

Previous post was directed to LM's mocrotext.

[Chickybaby]

We have a few Brazilian games from CCE and Polyvox. I *think* they are considered "pirate carts".

 

I'd like more of them it's neat to have a lil variety, but I wasn't sure where they fit in.

 

Also if a game was not released in one format or another and someone converts it what is it considered?

 

Me and hubby were having a conversation about the differences in types of carts as well and am curious as to what everyone thinks.

[sku_u]

We have a few Brazilian games from CCE and Polyvox. I *think* they are considered "pirate carts".

 

CCE carts are pirate carts. Polyvox carts were licensed AFAIK.

 

Also if a game was not released in one format or another and someone converts it what is it considered?

 

Technically, I'd consider it a pirate albeit one I'd want a common friend of ours to put on a cart for me.

[deathtrappomegranate]

CCE carts are pirate carts.

 

Does that include Pizza Chef, for example?

 

I've heard conflicting opinions about that, and I'm no 2600 expert.

[Chickybaby]

We have a few Brazilian games from CCE and Polyvox. I *think* they are considered "pirate carts".

 

CCE carts are pirate carts. Polyvox carts were licensed AFAIK.

 

Also if a game was not released in one format or another and someone converts it what is it considered?

 

Technically, I'd consider it a pirate albeit one I'd want a common friend of ours to put on a cart for me.

 

I was also curious as far as raity goes for them - how can you tell?

We have a Mr.Postman,Superman, Fortress Defense and Pizza chef that are CCE and a Space Tunnel thats Polyvox.

 

And as for the other I agree totally with you - especially with the amazing quality they can make me a cart anytime at all *double grin*

[sku_u]

CCE carts are pirate carts.

 

Does that include Pizza Chef, for example?

 

I've heard conflicting opinions about that, and I'm no 2600 expert.

 

From what I understand, everything, including Pizza Chef, Immies and Aggies, and Mr. Postman are pirated from unreleased titles. So far no one's found the source for Stone Age, but the Rumor Mill of the DP guide lists that one as a planned, but unreleased Technovision title.

[deathtrappomegranate]

I was also curious as far as raity goes for them - how can you tell?

 

Digitalpress has a rarity guide that lists them, but I don't know how accurate it is.

 

Their Atari 8-bit computer rarity guide certainly has a few howlers, but I'd have to defer to almost anyone on the subject of 2600 rarity

[deathtrappomegranate]

From what I understand, everything, including Pizza Chef, Immies and Aggies, and Mr. Postman are pirated from unreleased titles.  So far no one's found the source for Stone Age, but  the Rumor Mill of the DP guide lists that one as a planned, but unreleased Technovision title.

 

Pirated from unreleased titles! I'd heard similar things - that's an interesting concept!! I guess that makes them unique titles, in a sense.

 

I thought that Stone Age was mostly Pengo code with altered graphics?

 

Again, though, I'm really just repeating what I've been told.

[sku_u]

I was also curious as far as raity goes for them - how can you tell?

We have a Mr.Postman,Superman, Fortress Defense and Pizza chef that are CCE and a Space Tunnel thats Polyvox.

 

There are definitely some people here who could put together a pretty accurate rarity guide of these. I can think of at least 3 people with enough experience with South American, specifically Brazillian carts to do it.

 

From my experience, which has been limited to purchasing them from about a dozen or so people, I've found most CCE carts to be relatively common, although Stone Age is in demand as are some of the white carts. Polyvox are pretty common for the most part as are Dactar, and Teen with Auto Game and Tron being harder to find. Tron carts have the T shaped handles and short carts and are harder to find completely intact because of their flimsy cart shells. There are about 50 or so other "companies" I have carts of from Brazil, another dozen or so from Argentina and about 6 or so from undetermined Latin American sources.

 

If you're interested, I can put together a list of what I have and PM it to you along with some descriptions of the cart styles, although, like I said, there are people here who know a lot more about pirate carts than I do.

[sku_u]

From what I understand, everything, including Pizza Chef, Immies and Aggies, and Mr. Postman are pirated from unreleased titles.  So far no one's found the source for Stone Age, but  the Rumor Mill of the DP guide lists that one as a planned, but unreleased Technovision title.

 

Pirated from unreleased titles! I'd heard similar things - that's an interesting concept!! I guess that makes them unique titles, in a sense.

 

I just realized how poorly I worded that. I meant to say that the games I listed were pirated from unreleased games. It's not too uncommon for that to happen. I have a built in Atari clone system that includes Cubo Majico (Cubicolor) and Cat Trax and it came from Mexico.

[CPUWIZ]

I thought that Stone Age was mostly Pengo code with altered graphics?

 

Gah, once and for all! Compare the screenshots and look how different the kernel is. It's not Pengo.

 

[sku_u]

I thought that Stone Age was mostly Pengo code with altered graphics?

 

Gah, once and for all! Compare the screenshots and look how different the kernel is. It's not Pengo.

 

It looks like a cheap hack of Pengo to me.

 

[CPUWIZ]

LOL

[A.J. Franzman]

Gah, once and for all! Compare the screenshots and look how different the kernel is. It's not Pengo.

OK, the major differences I see are: Stone age lacks the fancy border, has the score on top instead of the bottom, and has a grid of 10x8 instead of 11x8 blocks. Since we can't see the kernel on the screen, please explain for us noobs why these apparently minor differences absolutely eliminate the possibility that Stone Age could be a Pengo hack?

[Robert M]

Gah, once and for all! Compare the screenshots and look how different the kernel is. It's not Pengo.

OK, the major differences I see are: Stone age lacks the fancy border, has the score on top instead of the bottom, and has a grid of 10x8 instead of 11x8 blocks. Since we can't see the kernel on the screen, please explain for us noobs why these apparently minor differences absolutely eliminate the possibility that Stone Age could be a Pengo hack?

 

That's a completely different kernel. Here is a list of the differences I noted with a quick analysis:

 

- Sprites in Pengo are single wide. Sprites in Stone Age are double wide.

- The blocks in Pengo are 2 PF pixels wide with a single PF pixel gap between (Horizontally). Stone Age blocks are 3 PF pixels wide with 1 single PF pixel gap between.

- Pengo sprites have single scanline vertical resolution. Stone Age sprites are at least 2 and maybe more scanlines per vertical pixel.

- The score bar is at the top for Stone Age and bottom for Pengo.

- Stone Age sprite are multicolored. Pengo sprites are monochrome.

 

Verdict: Those kernels are radically different and Stone Age is definitely not a graphics hack of Pengo. I doubt they have any code common between them except by accident.

 

Cheers!

[video game addict]

I wish I had this one to play. How does it compare game wise to Pengo?

 

Is it the same concept? Totally different? or what?

[Dr. Morbis]

From all the 'in between NTSC and PAL' to nobody ever seeing a box for it or knowing anything about the maker(s) I don't know what to believe about it anymore.

I think the fact the a box for Air Raid has never been found is very intriguing. Is there any other NTSC North American game that has had not a single box or manual found for it ever? And I mean no packaging materials at all?

 

Ponder this: if you found a boxed or complete Air Raid at a thrift tomorrow and saw, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the box and/or manual proved that it was NOT a bonifide US/NTSC release, how eager would you be to share that information with the collecting community? Would you knowingly devalue your new-found 'treasure' by thousands of dollars?

 

Perhaps someone out there has had to struggle with this 'dilemma'...

[Marco]

If it is a bootleg, what game is it a copy of?

I had been talking to someone in Argentina who claimed ownership to a bunch of these and even sent me some pictures of some similar carts, but I've long since lost touch with him and the site that he used to host the pictures is gone. What was intriguing about them is that they all had the same T-handle style blue carts that only Air Raid has as far as anyone knows. Where they were different was in the labels. There were three different labels. Whether these were legitimate or a hoax, I have no idea since I was never able to acquire any of them.

There are indeed tons a Argentinian games in blue cases, especially from the brand "Age", but so far I've never come across one in a T-handle case unfortunately. I'll keep on searching

 

Another weird thing is that I've gotten both PALish and NTSCish games from Argentina. Any of the Argentinians here care to give the final verdict on their national tv system?

 

Cheers,

Marco

[Osbo]

Marco: they use PAL down there (PAL-M if I remember correctly) I do have a blue cart myself, but is a multicart and no handle.

[Spirantho]

From what I understand, everything, including Pizza Chef, Immies and Aggies, and Mr. Postman are pirated from unreleased titles.  So far no one's found the source for Stone Age, but  the Rumor Mill of the DP guide lists that one as a planned, but unreleased Technovision title.

 

Pizza Chef I don't recognise... Immies and Aggies usually comes up on Atari clones with built-in games - I don't know if it's out on cart, but Mr. Postman I think is a fully legit Bit Corp game, and therefore of course originally PAL. Probably. At least Bit Corp seemed to make their own games (Snail vs. Squirrel etc.). Maybe one day we'll know about these carts for definite...

[YOK-dfa]

Pizza Chef & Immies and Aggies were both released on cart by CCE. See pictures.