Alternate Reality: The City by Philip Price for Atari 800

[Xebec's Demise]

On 7/31/2024 at 2:43 AM, Panther said:

Makes me think of the movie Dark City.

Speaking of which:
 

I did talk to two guys while at a restaurant in Westwood [In LA , near UCLA, it's the core of Hollywood]. I explained to them AR and it storyline, ideas and the Hollywood movie Dark City similarities to some of it and it's differences [i.e. things I think they did wrong in that movie that made it a bomb in the box office]. They listened intently, and one of them remarked to me (as they smiled to each other) was that "ideas can't be copyrighted". Matrix came out a few years later, I very much doubt they were the two brothers who came up with Matrix, but it made me wonder after Matrix came out.

 

Technically the idea of being deceived into thinking one's environment is one thing, when it is actually another has been expressed in Science Fiction for decades before I used that core concept. Those books by great Science Fiction authors probably is where I got my kernel of an idea.

 

Phil  

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20160911013731/http://marktaw.com/reviews/AlternateRealityTheVideoG.html

[Xebec's Demise]

On 7/30/2024 at 10:50 PM, phuzaxeman said:

"There's much more to any game than just vague tavern lyrics."

 

The lyrics are much more than vague. There lyrics tell the story of trying to leave the city.

 

"you walk around each
corner hoping to see
a way to get back
home a way to
break free
and to leave
alternate reality"

 

"When you step through the Floating Gate, you're rolling your skill and ability stats for your alternate self within the alternate or virtual reality you're entering"

 

An "alternate self" within a "virtual reality" was not mentioned in the original Prologue of the Atari game. The description in the Prologue explains that you have been abducted by aliens and you find yourself in a room with only one exit. Through this exit, you see an energy field that moves across the opening with a panel of changing numbers (stats). The moment you step through this door, the numbers freeze which sets your stats. 

 

 

"....as you begin your new life entrapped within an experimental fantasy virtual world designed and controlled by the aliens."

 

Nowhere does it say in the original game, including the lyrics of the music, that the city is an "experimental fantasy virtual world designed and controlled by the aliens." Believing this changes the original story. 

 

It's baffling how you can quote lyrics about breaking free from an alternate reality in a game titled Alternate Reality, focused on surviving within an alternate reality and still not realize that The City of Xebec's Demise is an alternate reality. I truly don't know what else to tell you. Maybe I just need to ask you some questions?

 

Oddly, you replied to each specific point I made, except for the fact that you break out of the alternate reality back into an alien control room in The Dungeon. Why did you not reply to this?

 

Obviously you have traits and abilities as a human, such as how charming you are, your intelligence, your strength, your wisdom, your stamina, your skills and your health, right? So, what do you imagine is taking place when you are forced to roll for new abilities while stepping through the one way exit from the alien space ship into The City of Xebec's Demise? If you're simply entering the city as yourself, your abilities wouldn't change and you wouldn't need to roll for new ones, right? Are these new abilities not for your alternate self within an alternate reality of strange fantasy monsters in Xebec's Demise?

 

I included the artwork from the front of the Alternate Reality box so that you could see the alien computers on the space ship inside the gate contrasted with the old stone walls of The City of Xebec's Demise outside the gate in hopes that you'd finally realize that when you step through the gate it's a portal out of the space ship into an alternate reality of medieval fantasy, without a computer in sight. Did you look at the image? Do you have a different interpretation of what's taking place?

 

Games, movies and stories in general usually don't directly, clearly and explicitly state everything that's going on upfront in documentation and lyrics as that would spoil the story, content, discovery, exploring and overall experience, but in the case of Alternate Reality it couldn't be more obvious that Xebec's Demise is an alternate reality when the literal title of the game itself is Alternate Reality. So, I'm left questioning what the reason could possibly be that you're in denial to the point you're ignoring the title and cover of the game and a key fact like breaking out of the alternate reality in The Dungeon?
 

Revelation, Yep we are in a big ship orbiting the alien planet, and later we find that the 'I' in the ship is really just a VR that can interact with the real matter, and our real biological shell is in a machine, a cocoon.

 

Destiny, and then we have to decide live in our virtual self, with by then lots of power and influence, and perhaps even those we have grown to love and bond to, or return to our old body. The final destiny is when we take control of the ship and have to make those choices I talked about decades ago, Kill the aliens in revenge, try to make peace, run away home (with or without the VR Ship), the consequences of which would depend on the context and clues derived throughout the game about what the gamer had done, and the alien motive, strength, and intentions. (And the game would have predetermine those alien personality traits uniquely to each game).

 

-Phil

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/214790-atariage-welcomes-philip-price-creatorcoder-of-alternate-reality/?do=findComment&comment=2798178

 

 

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/69356-alternate-reality-the-city-by-philip-price-for-atari-800/?do=findComment&comment=5157769

 

Edited August 2 by Xebec's Demise

[+kheller2]

I like AR.   One of my favorite games.   However, I'm not sure we need such philosophical debates.  Remember: you can't convince someone to believe something differently by telling them they are wrong, or even showing them math or scientific evidence or logic.   Research suggests it takes love, compassion, and a few years of daily interaction to have someone "see your side" of things.   It usually is a two way street and the truth is in the middle.  Right and Wrong are moral type of things.  True and False on the other hand...

 

[Panther]

1 hour ago, kheller2 said:

I like AR.   One of my favorite games.   However, I'm not sure we need such philosophical debates.  Remember: you can't convince someone to believe something differently by telling them they are wrong, or even showing them math or scientific evidence or logic.   Research suggests it takes love, compassion, and a few years of daily interaction to have someone "see your side" of things.   It usually is a two way street and the truth is in the middle.  Right and Wrong are moral type of things.  True and False on the other hand...

We could focus on why he thinks Westwood is the "core of Hollywood".  Hollywood is east four cities.  Although, Westwood Village used to be popular for the movie theaters, being a college town.

 

[Xebec's Demise]

On 8/2/2024 at 2:41 PM, kheller2 said:

I like AR.   One of my favorite games.   However, I'm not sure we need such philosophical debates.  Remember: you can't convince someone to believe something differently by telling them they are wrong, or even showing them math or scientific evidence or logic.   Research suggests it takes love, compassion, and a few years of daily interaction to have someone "see your side" of things.   It usually is a two way street and the truth is in the middle.  Right and Wrong are moral type of things.  True and False on the other hand...

 

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but if you're replying to my last comment, there's no philosophical debate occurring, there's not two sides of anything to see, the truth is not in the middle and it's not a matter of right and wrong either, it's not a matter of belief. It's plain documented facts and questions being presented to someone in denial. Maybe you missed it, but I quoted the creator himself, Philip Price, stating, "Revelation, Yep we are in a big ship orbiting the alien planet, and later we find that the 'I' in the ship is really just a VR that can interact with the real matter, and our real biological shell is in a machine, a cocoon." You can't debate the creator themselves over what they created and intended.

Edited August 4 by Xebec's Demise

[Xebec's Demise]

On 8/2/2024 at 4:35 PM, Panther said:

We could focus on why he thinks Westwood is the "core of Hollywood".  Hollywood is east four cities.  Although, Westwood Village used to be popular for the movie theaters, being a college town.

 

By, "he," who do you mean?

Hollywood is not a city, it's a neighborhood within the city of Los Angeles. The term "Hollywood" isn't just used to refer to the literal neighborhood of Hollywood only, but the entire area, industry and everyone involved in making films in Los Angeles.

Edited August 4 by Xebec's Demise

[Xebec's Demise]

On 10/15/2023 at 2:32 PM, phuzaxeman said:

Hi, I'm joining this talk late. I grew up with AR and I spent a half decade on the game. I also wrote a review many years ago. It's my top 3 8bit game of all time. I just started playing the game recently after decades of not playing AR on my PC.

 

To answer your question, I never got the impression that your mind was placed in some kind of virtual reality. The premise of AR is that you were abducted by aliens and placed in a doorway into the city of Xebec Demise.

 

 

Curious to see your review, I googled your username and just now learned that you're the author of an Alternate Reality review that not only closely mirrors my own experiences with the game, but that I've been sharing in my first post since 2005:

 

Could this be the best Atari 8-Bit game ever? By Ken Sarmiento, The Atari Times

Edited August 9 by Xebec's Demise

[phuzaxeman]

On 8/9/2024 at 2:45 PM, Xebec's Demise said:

Curious to see your review, I googled your username and just now learned that you're the author of an Alternate Reality review that not only closely mirrors my own experiences with the game, but that I've been sharing in my first post since 2005:

 

Could this be the best Atari 8-Bit game ever? By Ken Sarmiento, The Atari Times

I am the one who reviewed this game. And I know this game better than most people that have played it. So much, I was one of the first, if not the first person to reviewed it. I have played AR since 1985. So I'm not trying to cause a debate for the sake of argument. My published 2002 review was before your first ever post on AR.

 

My point is Mr. Price added more information to AR after it was initially released. As I mentioned before, an "alternate self" within a "virtual reality" was not mentioned in the original Prologue of the Atari game. Furthermore, the description in the Prologue explains that you have been abducted by aliens and you find yourself in a room with only one exit. Through this exit, you see an energy field that moves across the opening with a panel of changing numbers (stats). The moment you step through this door, the numbers freeze which sets your stats. 

 

As I mentioned with an article with Price, he says that "a person in the final game in the series would have to make some heavy choices. Should I annihilate the planet we are orbiting that is populated with aliens who had kidnapped me? Should I just return to Earth? Should I take the alien megaship I am in with me to Earth? Should I destroy it? These were all final choices in the end, each with probabilities of certain consequences occurring from those choices."

 

Nowhere does Price insinuate from this interview that humans were hooked up and enslaved and had their realities altered like the Matrix. Why "annihilate the planet" with aliens if humans are hooked up to machines? What was originally written in the prologue and mentioned in an interview conflicts with what was said later. So my belief of the game is what was said in the original manuscript and what was said from the game itself. This is a good discussion with some hardcore fans. 

  

 

 

 

 

[_The Doctor__]

mega ships carried the machines in the matrix, people were in ships in the matrix, people were not aware they were in the matrix when they thought they escaped the matrix, it was not till later on that NEO used the matrix powers in the 'real world' that he realized he needed to do more to truly free the human. In the matrix the machines were willing to wipe it all out or destroy the planet and start over. so how is this all a problem if price unfolded in much the same way years earlier? Just because you started with what you incorrectly though was cannon instead of an evolving story, from dungeon to city and so on... does that make you snippet in time supreme in some way? Get over yourself, you aren't a more credible source than the creator, programmer, and author.