Aaron Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 For the Mini-Game compo this year I thought I'd do a version of an old calculator game called DStar. The idea is to collect all the blue rings, but the trick is that you always move in a straight line until you hit something. Also you can alternately control a block to help get around the level. Anyway, play it, it's not that hard to figure out. Fire switches between controlling pac man and the blocker, which you'll need to finish the level (not detected yet). astar.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 For the Mini-Game compo this year I thought I'd do a version of an old calculator game called DStar. The idea is to collect all the blue rings, but the trick is that you always move in a straight line until you hit something. Also you can alternately control a block to help get around the level. Anyway, play it, it's not that hard to figure out. Fire switches between controlling pac man and the blocker, which you'll need to finish the level (not detected yet). 894073[/snapback] I like these types of games. Still trying to figure out how to get some of those blocks near the bottom... How will the score be determined? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 How will the score be determined? 894087[/snapback] Hrm, do people actually care about a score in a game like this? I didn't think it would be meaningful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmips Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 (edited) Well, like in Jammed, you can solve it or you can solve it in the minimum number of moves. Nice game. Edited July 19, 2005 by djmips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 That was a fun puzzle. Nice job. It didn't take too long to solve the first level. I trust you will be adding graphics for when Pac-Man faces up or down, or will you do it Todd Frye style? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 How will the score be determined? 894087[/snapback] Hrm, do people actually care about a score in a game like this? I didn't think it would be meaningful. 894108[/snapback] Oh goodness yes, it needs scores - that's a large wodge of the replay value right there! In a game like this you can have a score per item, a bonus timer ticking down that gets awarded at the end of a level and a moves counter that gives a few spare to multiply by ten for a second bonus to make sure the scores aren't fixed per level. Running out of time or moves needn't be fatal, although i'd make the timer fatal myself to add a bit of urgency to the proceedings. i'll have a play of it when i'm at me own computer, i'm at work right now so can't have a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 Oh goodness yes, it needs scores - that's a large wodge of the replay value right there! In a game like this you can have a score per item, a bonus timer ticking down that gets awarded at the end of a level and a moves counter that gives a few spare to multiply by ten for a second bonus to make sure the scores aren't fixed per level. Running out of time or moves needn't be fatal, although i'd make the timer fatal myself to add a bit of urgency to the proceedings. 894201[/snapback] Ok, sorry, but I really think urgency in puzzle games is a Bad Thing. If you're looking for that sort of thing, go take the GRE or something. I guess a moves counter would work though... That was a fun puzzle. Nice job. It didn't take too long to solve the first level. I trust you will be adding graphics for when Pac-Man faces up or down, or will you do it Todd Frye style? Yeah, I'm sure that would look better, I just hadn't decided if I ought to keep Pac-Man in the game or not. But since we all know the best way to become popular is to leech off the popularity of others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Ok, sorry, but I really think urgency in puzzle games is a Bad Thing. If you're looking for that sort of thing, go take the GRE or something. I guess a moves counter would work though... Agreed. Those games work best if you can take your time. A moves counter should do. Just let it count backward from the minimum number of moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Yeah, I'm sure that would look better, I just hadn't decided if I ought to keep Pac-Man in the game or not. But since we all know the best way to become popular is to leech off the popularity of others... I suggest using a marble/ball. That should simplify animation and save a lot of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Ok, sorry, but I really think urgency in puzzle games is a Bad Thing. If you're looking for that sort of thing, go take the GRE or something. I guess a moves counter would work though... Agreed. Those games work best if you can take your time. A moves counter should do. Just let it count backward from the minimum number of moves. Me, i like urgency but that's me... but a bonus timer can still go in, you just don't end the game if it runs out so players who go through the levels faster score more points - it means that, as people learn the game, they get better and get higher scores so there's another facet of replay value innit. =-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmips Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Me, i like urgency but that's me... but a bonus timer can still go in, you just don't end the game if it runs out so players who go through the levels faster score more points - it means that, as people learn the game, they get better and get higher scores so there's another facet of replay value innit. =-) 894985[/snapback] You might like Ricochet Robots it is a similarly themed board game, but competitive, with a timer and everyone has to analyze the board at the same time and come in with lowest bid on the number of rebounds before the timer is exhausted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 Here's an update. Added a moves counter, an icon for what you're controlling, and some more levels (the one was just hard-coded in before). I suggest using a marble/ball. That should simplify animation and save a lot of space. I decided to keep Pac-Man in. Or rather, Non-Infringing-Yellow-Pie-Shaped-Man. He just works too well in the role. A moves counter should do. Just let it count backward from the minimum number of moves. The problem with that is, I don't know the minimum number. There are very likely multiple ways to solve each level - just about every time I've placed a ring so far, I've found out there was an easier way to get it than what I had planned. So it counts up from zero for now. But anyway, here are my "par" counts for the levels so far: 49, 46, 39, 30. I'm sure someone can do better. astar_22Jul05.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercat Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Here's an update. Added a moves counter, an icon for what you're controlling, and some more levels (the one was just hard-coded in before). Very nice. It would be useful, though, if you could add some sort of 'undo' feature. I know multi-level undo isn't likely on a stock 2600, but even a single-level undo would be very handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 The problem with that is, I don't know the minimum number. Then cheat and write small program which finds the optimal solutions for you. Then you have the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 (edited) The problem with that is, I don't know the minimum number. Then cheat and write small program which finds the optimal solutions for you. Then you have the numbers. 896893[/snapback] Coincidentally, there is a common search technique you could use called A* (A star). Edited July 23, 2005 by Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Hi there! The problem with that is, I don't know the minimum number. Then cheat and write small program which finds the optimal solutions for you. Then you have the numbers. 896893[/snapback] Personally, I think *not* knowing the "best" solution is probably more fun for the players. Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Personally, I think *not* knowing the "best" solution is probably more fun for the players. Really? They wouldn't know the exact solution, only the minimal number of moves. IMO it should be pretty motivating to find the optimal solution and getting awarded by the game somehow then. Hm, maybe the game shouldn't tell the player before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Hi there! Personally, I think *not* knowing the "best" solution is probably more fun for the players. Really? Yup. Basically, as long as I haven't figured out the "best" solution, the game is constantly telling me that I *suck* each time I play the level I rather prefer it that when I improved upon my previous personal best, I can think: YAY I DID IT AGAIN! Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Yup. Basically, as long as I haven't figured out the "best" solution, the game is constantly telling me that I *suck* each time I play the level I rather prefer it that when I improved upon my previous personal best, I can think: YAY I DID IT AGAIN! For me it's completely different, I always want to get as close to perfection as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Yup. Basically, as long as I haven't figured out the "best" solution, the game is constantly telling me that I *suck* each time I play the level I rather prefer it that when I improved upon my previous personal best, I can think: YAY I DID IT AGAIN! For me it's completely different, I always want to get as close to perfection as possible. 896985[/snapback] I can vouch for that... I haven't yet managed to improve on Thomas's code, and believe me, I've tried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercat Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 I like these types of games. Still trying to figure out how to get some of those blocks near the bottom... 894087[/snapback] For the rightmost ring in the penultimate row, move the block down, right, down, right, down. Then move the slotted hockey puck down and right. For the other one, the block and hockey puck can build out from the left edge near the top until the hockey puck is in the right column, whereupon it can go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Excellent, another puzzle game for the 2600! The system definitely does not have enough puzzle games (Okie Dokie, Jammed, Crazy Valet, ... ??) and it would seem well suited for them. You have my encouragement to continue development! As far as telling the player the minimum number of moves required to solve the puzzle, I would much prefer to see that also (just as with Jammed). While I may not be able to solve the puzzle in the minimum number of moves, I'd at least like to know how far off from the target I am! Otherwise I have no way of knowing, unless perhaps the game notified me if I did solve the puzzle perfectly (after the fact). Although I think it should do that anyway, as a reward of sorts. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 Very nice. It would be useful, though, if you could add some sort of 'undo' feature. I know multi-level undo isn't likely on a stock 2600, but even a single-level undo would be very handy. 896883[/snapback] No problem. For now reset works like you'd expect. Then cheat and write small program which finds the optimal solutions for you. Then you have the numbers. 896893[/snapback] Any good ideas for an algorithm for that? I don't think brute force would work when dealing with 8^40-something possible moves. Maybe something with flood-fill... Coincidentally, there is a common search technique you could use called A* (A star). 896894[/snapback] I thought someone might notice that. I don't think it's really (directly) applicable here though, or maybe I'm just being stupid... Personally, I think *not* knowing the "best" solution is probably more fun for the players. 896936[/snapback] See, I can understand that. It's kind of a downer when you're told up front "this is the best you can ever do". So I was thinking of instead including par scores that you could potentially beat, but then they would probably be a lot of work to figure out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmips Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Any good ideas for an algorithm for that? I don't think brute force would work when dealing with 8^40-something possible moves. Maybe something with flood-fill...Coincidentally, there is a common search technique you could use called A* (A star). 896894[/snapback] I thought someone might notice that. I don't think it's really (directly) applicable here though, or maybe I'm just being stupid... Although A* is often associated with pathfinding on a map it is more abstractly a graph search which can be tuned to find the shortest path. A colleague used the algorithm to search through a graph for choosing the best strategy for the computer opponent in a turn based strategy game. Even though you have such a large set of possible moves, pruning will reduce that. Of course if all else fails, you could try brute force and a distributed computing application approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Any good ideas for an algorithm for that? I don't think brute force would work when dealing with 8^40-something possible moves. Maybe something with flood-fill... Not out of my head. But using a big hash map for recognizing repeated patterns plus A* should help. And the Jammed puzzles where selected (for diversity and compression ratio) out of millions of puzzles generated by a PIII-800 (at my office) running over night. So IMO brute-force for a few hand-generated levels is not completely out of scope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.