7800 sound

[joeybastard]

First, know that I just got a 7800 so I'm just getting to know the system and it's games.

 

I know for compatibility the 7800 shares the sound chip of the 2600. What I don't understand though is why do the 7800 games sound better than their VCS counterparts? For example, Ms.Pacman on the 7800 sounds much more full and arcade like than the VCS version. Same for Dig Dug. How did they do that?

 

I have to admit, I'm used to those sounds from my VCS but find them very weird when playing a 7800 game. I've been just turning down the sound and listening to CDs instead. Especially on DK, DKjr and Mario Bros. WOW... the music sounds horrible on those.

Edited October 26, 2005 by joeybastard

[+remowilliams]

What I don't understand though is why do the 7800 games sound better than their VCS counterparts?  For example, Ms.Pacman on the 7800 sounds much more full and arcade like than the VCS version.  Same for Dig Dug.  How did they do that?

954658[/snapback]

I've noticed that to an extent as well. I chalked it up to better techniques and more CPU cycles to drive that poopy sound chip.

 

7800 sound ranges from bad to god awful. 7800 sound makes baby jesus cry

Edited October 26, 2005 by remowilliams

[vdub_bobby]

What I don't understand though is why do the 7800 games sound better than their VCS counterparts?  For example, Ms.Pacman on the 7800 sounds much more full and arcade like than the VCS version.  Same for Dig Dug.  How did they do that?

954658[/snapback]

I've noticed that to an extent as well. I chalked it up to better techniques and more CPU cycles to drive that poopy sound chip.

 

7800 sound ranges from bad to god awful. 7800 sound makes baby jesus cry

954662[/snapback]

I'd also add: more ROM to store sound data. Sound data really can chew up memory.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

I hear you on those Nintendo made titles, they would have been better off just sticking with the original VCS sounds. Yet another reason why someone should hack these titles to give them much better Pokey sounds.

[oesii]

Welcome to the 7800, lots of untapped potential. They really should have included a Pokey chip in the console because the music in Ballblazer and Commando is great. Donkey Kong and especially DK Jr. drive me crazy with their squeaky effects and music.

[joeybastard]

It just seems short sighted to me that Atari expected companies to go thru the extra expense of adding the pokey chip. I could only see that happening if the 7800 was as big as the VCS in sales so the added cost was made up in volume. Especially since they didn't even do it themselves on 99% of the games so Atari didn't even want to be bothered with it.

 

So far I digging the games for the most part. I'm really disappointed in Fight Night. The control is so sloppy it reminds me of Karate on the VCS. That's a shame because I'm a big fan of boxing games. The arcade ports are excellent for the most part. 1 other thing I find strange is how often the 2nd button is not utilized. For example, in Xevious a single button fires and drops bombs. That bugs me. The arcade, the NES, the GBA, all use the 2 button scheme. My favorite of all of the games at the moment is Tower Toppler. It's unique and fun. That's another one that could have better utilized 2 buttons though. That stop running to fire stuff gets me killed constantly.

[frogstar_robot]

It just seems short sighted to me that Atari expected companies to go thru the extra expense of adding the pokey chip.  I could only see that happening if the 7800 was as big as the VCS in sales so the added cost was made up in volume.  Especially since they didn't even do it themselves on 99% of the games so Atari didn't even want to be bothered with it.

 

So far I digging the games for the most part.  I'm really disappointed in Fight Night.  The control is so sloppy it reminds me of Karate on the VCS.  That's a shame because I'm a big fan of boxing games.  The arcade ports are excellent for the most part.  1 other thing I find strange is how often the 2nd button is not utilized.  For example, in Xevious a single button fires and drops bombs.  That bugs me.  The arcade, the NES, the GBA, all use the 2 button scheme.  My favorite of all of the games at the moment is Tower Toppler.  It's unique and fun.  That's another one that could have better utilized 2 buttons though.  That stop running to fire stuff gets me killed constantly.

955188[/snapback]

 

All official versions of Nebulous (Tower Toppler) work that way. It would change the balance of the game to be able to fire and run simultaneously.

[joeybastard]

All official versions of Nebulous (Tower Toppler) work that way.  It would change the balance of the game to be able to fire and run simultaneously.

955205[/snapback]

 

I didn't know there were other versions. What else did it come out on?

[Danno]

Xevious DOES allow you to use both buttons independantly for firing bombs or guns. change the position on the difficulty switch.

[joeybastard]

Xevious DOES allow you to use both buttons independantly for firing bombs or guns. change the position on the difficulty switch.

955239[/snapback]

 

Cool! I didn't know that. I didn't bother to read the manual because.... well, it's Xevious.

[DanBoris]

It just seems short sighted to me that Atari expected companies to go thru the extra expense of adding the pokey chip.  I could only see that happening if the 7800 was as big as the VCS in sales so the added cost was made up in volume.  Especially since they didn't even do it themselves on 99% of the games so Atari didn't even want to be bothered with it.

 

Here is a theory I had on this...

 

If you have looked at the 7800 PCB it's pretty crowded, so adding a pokey to the design probably would have increased the size of the PCB, the size of the system, and the overall cost of the system.

 

A lot of the 7800 carts had one of three "added features", extra RAM, extra ROM, or a POKEY, so the Pokey cart would not have been much more expensive then the other carts to make. Even if you had to tack on a few dollars to the price of the cartridge, this may have actually been more palatable to the consumer then increasing the price of the console by say $10.00.

 

Dan

[vdub_bobby]

All official versions of Nebulous (Tower Toppler) work that way.  It would change the balance of the game to be able to fire and run simultaneously.

955205[/snapback]

 

I didn't know there were other versions. What else did it come out on?

955236[/snapback]

I think there was a version (proto?) for the A8. The NES had a version called Castelian.

 

According to AtariProtos (http://www.atariprotos.com/8bit/software/towertoppler/towertoppler.htm) it was originally an Amiga game.

 

And I think the Spectrum had a port as well?

[The_Laird]

Actully I believe it was on the ST first as Nebulus and was by Hewson. It was one of the pack-in games with it for a long time.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

Would it have been possible for them to add a sort of riser board on the 7800 that had some more RAM and a Pokey on it? Kind of like how some older arcades had those extra boards that connected via IDE like headers.

 

I was surprised by Fight Night. It plays much faster than the XE version which is the only one I have played. Kind of makes it strange though on the 7800 version with the speed they have it at. Makes it a bit more difficult.

[+remowilliams]

I was surprised by Fight Night. It plays much faster than the XE version which is the only one I have played. Kind of makes it strange though on the 7800 version with the speed they have it at. Makes it a bit more difficult.

955332[/snapback]

I loved Fight Night on the A8s, and I too was shocked at the speed of the 7800 version.

[supercat]

If you have looked at the 7800 PCB it's pretty crowded, so adding a pokey to the design probably would have increased the size of the PCB, the size of the system, and the overall cost of the system.

955276[/snapback]

 

I wonder why Atari didn't produce a smaller Po/Key-less version of the POKEY by leaving off some pins (the same way as the 6507 is a 6502 die with only 28 pins connected)? The Pokey is a Potentiometer/Keyboard interface chip that just so happens to have sound built in. I would expect that 20 pins could probably be lopped off without difficulty, though depending upon die size a 24-pin package might be necessary (I don't think there are any standard 0.6" packages smaller than that, and don't know if the die would fit in a 0.4" DIP22 or a 0.3" DIP20).

[oesii]

I was surprised by Fight Night. It plays much faster than the XE version which is the only one I have played. Kind of makes it strange though on the 7800 version with the speed they have it at. Makes it a bit more difficult.

955332[/snapback]

I loved Fight Night on the A8s, and I too was shocked at the speed of the 7800 version.

955465[/snapback]

 

 

Speed is not always a good thing on the 7800, the fast speed of Mat Mania adds to its general suckitude

[Shaggy the Atarian]

I was surprised by Fight Night. It plays much faster than the XE version which is the only one I have played. Kind of makes it strange though on the 7800 version with the speed they have it at. Makes it a bit more difficult.

955332[/snapback]

I loved Fight Night on the A8s, and I too was shocked at the speed of the 7800 version.

955465[/snapback]

 

 

Speed is not always a good thing on the 7800, the fast speed of Mat Mania adds to its general suckitude

955475[/snapback]

 

Yeah, I don't think it helps much on Fight Night, if it were slowed down a little bit it would be nice, but not to the same level as the A8. I wasn't always happy with how slow it was on the A8, sometimes my hand would start hurting because it took a while to knock someone out.

 

I've only played Mat Mania once or twice. I'm not much of a wrestling fan and this game didn't improve anything there. That and it's an eyesore.

[joeybastard]

Xevious DOES allow you to use both buttons independantly for firing bombs or guns. change the position on the difficulty switch.

955239[/snapback]

 

I tried this on both switches and saw no change. 1 button still fired both. Also, I can't find it mentioned in the manual. Maybe you're thinking of some other game?

Edited October 28, 2005 by joeybastard

[128bytes]

Xevious DOES allow you to use both buttons independantly for firing bombs or guns. change the position on the difficulty switch.

955239[/snapback]

 

I tried this on both switches and saw no change. 1 button still fired both. Also, I can't find it mentioned in the manual. Maybe you're thinking of some other game?

955789[/snapback]

 

He's not. I play 7800 Xevious with 2 buttons all the time.

 

What joystick are you using? The 2 button mode is only available if you are using a joystick wired for 2 button mode on the 7800 (like the Prolines that come with the system, or the 7800 joypads)

[joeybastard]

Xevious DOES allow you to use both buttons independantly for firing bombs or guns. change the position on the difficulty switch.

955239[/snapback]

 

I tried this on both switches and saw no change. 1 button still fired both. Also, I can't find it mentioned in the manual. Maybe you're thinking of some other game?

955789[/snapback]

 

He's not. I play 7800 Xevious with 2 buttons all the time.

 

What joystick are you using? The 2 button mode is only available if you are using a joystick wired for 2 button mode on the 7800 (like the Prolines that come with the system, or the 7800 joypads)

955804[/snapback]

 

I tried a CV stick which I've been using for most of the games and then out of curiosity I tried a regular CX40 VCS stick. I'll have to dig out my 7800 stick and try it. I just hate the 7800 stick so I haven't been using it.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

Xevious DOES allow you to use both buttons independantly for firing bombs or guns. change the position on the difficulty switch.

955239[/snapback]

 

I tried this on both switches and saw no change. 1 button still fired both. Also, I can't find it mentioned in the manual. Maybe you're thinking of some other game?

955789[/snapback]

 

He's not. I play 7800 Xevious with 2 buttons all the time.

 

What joystick are you using? The 2 button mode is only available if you are using a joystick wired for 2 button mode on the 7800 (like the Prolines that come with the system, or the 7800 joypads)

955804[/snapback]

 

I tried a CV stick which I've been using for most of the games and then out of curiosity I tried a regular CX40 VCS stick. I'll have to dig out my 7800 stick and try it. I just hate the 7800 stick so I haven't been using it.

955814[/snapback]

 

If you can get the 7800 pad. I use it all the time for all of my 7800 games. It's interesting to have a thumbstick on a D-Pad.

[Inky]

Good 'ol 7800 Xevious. IMHO, more fun than even the arcade version (and I LOVE the arcade version).

 

Yes, with the 7800 sticks, you can use one for firing and one button for bombs. Personally, I like having the bombs and missles firing at the same time, due to how bad the 7800 stix are.

 

Also, Xenophobe uses both buttons, as does Midnight Mutants, and ALien Brigade.

Edited October 30, 2005 by Inky

[EricBall]

I wonder why Atari didn't produce a smaller Po/Key-less version of the POKEY by leaving off some pins

955470[/snapback]

Hmm, interesting idea. That would reduce the 40 pin POKEY down to 18-20 pins:

 

3 power, ground, clock

1 audio out

4 address

8 data (write only)

2 chip select (one high, one low, might be able to make do with only one)

(might still need a R/W line to latch the data properly)

 

But I suspect to do so would have cost Atari $$ in retooling, instead of just dipping into the parts bin. Remember that POKEY was used for a lot of different things, including some arcade titles.

 

Also remember that GCC's original idea was to include a sound generator into MARIA, just like the TIA (although hopefully more advanced), but the idea was dropped for cost reasons.

[Bruce Tomlin]

For example, in Xevious a single button fires and drops bombs.  That bugs me.

Try flipping the difficulty switch. I think that was it.