winkdot Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Seeing that General Computer Corporation designed the 7800, does anyone know their history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 The most information I've ever seen in one place about GCC was the 20th anniversary discussion panel that Steve Golson (GCC cofounder and 7800 codesigner) and Curt Vendel participated in. Curt has a link on his website to a recording, but it's apparently offline. After hearing that discussion, and after reading up about the company elsewhere, I've come to believe that GCC is one of the unsung heroes of Atari history. The 7800 was truly the system that the 5200 should have been, and some of the best games that were shipped by Atari in the mid-80s were in fact developed by GCC. The outstanding quality of those games (especially the early 7800 titles) compared to Atari's in-house efforts clearly demonstrates the talent of GCC's developers; in fact, I've heard that Atari was considering outsourcing game development entirely to GCC. It's a pity that the Tramiels brought the fruitful relationship between Atari and GCC to such an abrupt end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkdot Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 The most information I've ever seen in one place about GCC was the 20th anniversary discussion panel that Steve Golson (GCC cofounder and 7800 codesigner) and Curt Vendel participated in. Curt has a link on his website to a recording, but it's apparently offline. After hearing that discussion, and after reading up about the company elsewhere, I've come to believe that GCC is one of the unsung heroes of Atari history. The 7800 was truly the system that the 5200 should have been, and some of the best games that were shipped by Atari in the mid-80s were in fact developed by GCC. The outstanding quality of those games (especially the early 7800 titles) compared to Atari's in-house efforts clearly demonstrates the talent of GCC's developers; in fact, I've heard that Atari was considering outsourcing game development entirely to GCC. It's a pity that the Tramiels brought the fruitful relationship between Atari and GCC to such an abrupt end. 961410[/snapback] Do you know if the company went under when Atari (Tramiel) no longer wanted to work with them? It's funny, I've read for years about GCC developing this and that for Atari, but I never have read anything about who they were and what happened to the company. Does anyone know if they did work for anyone else besides Atari? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 The most information I've ever seen in one place about GCC was the 20th anniversary discussion panel that Steve Golson (GCC cofounder and 7800 codesigner) and Curt Vendel participated in. Curt has a link on his website to a recording, but it's apparently offline. After hearing that discussion, and after reading up about the company elsewhere, I've come to believe that GCC is one of the unsung heroes of Atari history. The 7800 was truly the system that the 5200 should have been, and some of the best games that were shipped by Atari in the mid-80s were in fact developed by GCC. The outstanding quality of those games (especially the early 7800 titles) compared to Atari's in-house efforts clearly demonstrates the talent of GCC's developers; in fact, I've heard that Atari was considering outsourcing game development entirely to GCC. It's a pity that the Tramiels brought the fruitful relationship between Atari and GCC to such an abrupt end. 961410[/snapback] Do you know if the company went under when Atari (Tramiel) no longer wanted to work with them? It's funny, I've read for years about GCC developing this and that for Atari, but I never have read anything about who they were and what happened to the company. Does anyone know if they did work for anyone else besides Atari? 961555[/snapback] IIRC they switched to making laser printers or something of that nature. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Propane13 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 http://gccprinters.com/corporate/history.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 LOL, so it was an "enhancement" to Atari's Missile Command and not a pirate version? Hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 LOL, so it was an "enhancement" to Atari's Missile Command and not a pirate version? Hmmm... 961576[/snapback] Yes, "Super Missile Attack" was, as I understand it, designed as an upgrade that worked over top of Atari's original software. It didn't contain any Atari code and could not run by itself, so it could only be used with genuine Missile Command cabinets. And, of course, we can't overlook their role in the creation of Ms. Pac-Man, which was a direct result of their Pac-Man enhancement kit, "Crazy Otto" (which was bought by Midway and changed into Ms. Pac-Man). IMHO, that's the reason that the 7800 port of Ms. Pac-Man (also developed by GCC) is one of the most authentic home versions you can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Do you know if the company went under when Atari (Tramiel) no longer wanted to work with them? It's funny, I've read for years about GCC developing this and that for Atari, but I never have read anything about who they were and what happened to the company. Does anyone know if they did work for anyone else besides Atari? 961555[/snapback] After their break with Atari, I believe they went on to do Macintosh products. The company still exists today and sells laser printers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickHarrisMaine Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Do you know if the company went under when Atari (Tramiel) no longer wanted to work with them? It's funny, I've read for years about GCC developing this and that for Atari, but I never have read anything about who they were and what happened to the company. Does anyone know if they did work for anyone else besides Atari? 961555[/snapback] After their break with Atari, I believe they went on to do Macintosh products. The company still exists today and sells laser printers. 961616[/snapback] Didn't GCC make the Vectrex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Didn't GCC make the Vectrex? 961617[/snapback] Nope, that was General Consumer Electronics. Different company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcprs1 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I have a copy of the speech that was made. It is very good and I've listened to it several times. If you want a copy, send me a PM and I'll email it to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 LOL, so it was an "enhancement" to Atari's Missile Command and not a pirate version? Hmmm... 961576[/snapback] Yes, "Super Missile Attack" was, as I understand it, designed as an upgrade that worked over top of Atari's original software. It didn't contain any Atari code and could not run by itself, so it could only be used with genuine Missile Command cabinets.961615[/snapback] Didn't Atari sue GCC over that "upgrade?" And then didn't Atari realize GCC's adeptness and so commissioned them to create the 7800, Arcade Food Fight, et al? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 LOL, so it was an "enhancement" to Atari's Missile Command and not a pirate version? Hmmm... 961576[/snapback] Yes, "Super Missile Attack" was, as I understand it, designed as an upgrade that worked over top of Atari's original software. It didn't contain any Atari code and could not run by itself, so it could only be used with genuine Missile Command cabinets.961615[/snapback] Didn't Atari sue GCC over that "upgrade?" And then didn't Atari realize GCC's adeptness and so commissioned them to create the 7800, Arcade Food Fight, et al? 961668[/snapback] Basically. Part of the settlement was that GCC would give Atari two games they had already developed and design a third (the games being Quantum, Food Fight, and the never released Nightmare). Atari then decided that the GCC programmers were pretty good and put them to work doing arcade ports for the 2600. I believe that GCC developed the 7800 on their own, and not at the direction of Atari. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 (edited) I sent this to Curt a long time ago for him to do final editing, but it kinda got lost under the rug or something. It's a rough transcript of the interview. Note: I did this in TextEdit on a Mac, so it may have Unix (LF) line endings. 7800_panel.txt Edited November 8, 2005 by Bruce Tomlin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I sent this to Curt a long time ago for him to do final editing, but it kinda got lost under the rug or something. It's a rough transcript of the interview.961919[/snapback] That was a cool and informative (if wordy) transcript! Worked great in Wordpad, but it was jumbled in Notepad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkdot Posted November 9, 2005 Author Share Posted November 9, 2005 I sent this to Curt a long time ago for him to do final editing, but it kinda got lost under the rug or something. It's a rough transcript of the interview. Note: I did this in TextEdit on a Mac, so it may have Unix (LF) line endings. 961919[/snapback] Great post! Thanks. Looks like the 7800 could have been a major player if things had worked out differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Gee, it's starting to look like the 7800 could've been something great if it had gotten that support that was planned for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Gee, it's starting to look like the 7800 could've been something great if it had gotten that support that was planned for it. 962497[/snapback] The biggest impact on the 7800 was Jack being so damn tight with his wallet. The fact that it sold a couple million consoles was almost despite his efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 (edited) Gee, it's starting to look like the 7800 could've been something great if it had gotten that support that was planned for it. 962497[/snapback] Yeah, it's really too bad about the 7800. Despite the fact that I'm a huge fan of the system, I think it still would have been steamrolled by the NES juggernaut even if it had come out in 1984 as originally planned; Nintendo just understood gamers better than Atari ever did under the Tramiels. If it hadn't been delayed/cancelled, though, I think it would have gotten a lot more support and would have put up a much stronger fight against the NES. Developers would have had the chance to explore the system's capabilities more thoroughly, more and better developers would have made more and better games for it, and it probably would have become popular enough to justify the extra expense of creating games that had larger ROMs or better sound hardware built into the cartridges. Considering how cheap Atari was when it came to 7800 support, I'm amazed it sold as well as it did even though it was stuck in third place for most of its life. EDIT: Am I correct in remembering that the 7800 cartridge slot had composite audio AND video lines, or was it just audio? If it was both, that would have REALLY helped to prolong the system's life; they could have simply stuck in new hardware to bring it up to par with the competition. Edited November 9, 2005 by jaybird3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Laird Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 That interview clearly states that 7800 Track & Field was done, so what the hell happended to it? Why didn't Curt ask them if they still have a rom, I would love to see it. I find it strange Atari never released it, maybe the license ran out??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Brasky Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Atari could've killed Nintendo with the 7800 if they released it as an open system with no liscense fees like the 2600 was. I doubt many developers were happy with Nintendo cart manufacturing terms and huge chunk of each games profit they took. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHufnagel Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Atari could've killed Nintendo with the 7800 if they released it as an open system with no liscense fees like the 2600 was. I doubt many developers were happy with Nintendo cart manufacturing terms and huge chunk of each games profit they took. 962952[/snapback] Yes, but look at the huge amount of crap that came out for the 2600 because of that. Nintendo treated developers rather poorly, but it improved the overall quality of their library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
else Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 (edited) I sent this to Curt a long time ago for him to do final editing, but it kinda got lost under the rug or something. It's a rough transcript of the interview. Note: I did this in TextEdit on a Mac, so it may have Unix (LF) line endings. 961919[/snapback] Wow, that's quite an interesting read. I never knew that the Atari 7800 contained a lot of intellectual property that was stolen -- er, borrowed -- from Coleco. It is amazing that a few guys on the east coast created this whole thing by themselves (with the borrowed IP). What were the hundreds or thousands of Atari employees on the west coast doing the whole time -- just taking long lunches and collecting a paycheck? It kills me that Atari wasn't able develop the 7800 internally -- they must have had a huge amount of resources at their disposal and yet they totally blew it.... Edited November 10, 2005 by else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukotsu9 Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 The 7800 seemed to have the right resources and people behind it to really break out in '84. To read the transcript by GCC, they were psyched to do a computer that played great games. The way they discuss peripherals sounds like Atari still could've had standing in the home computer market while stabilizing the video game market (proving games can still be compelling). They kindof glossed over it, but the mini-Pokey needed to be in there (c'mon, putting a sound chip in every game cart? Just make a better system). While I don't know if the market had been ready for mass home computing, the 7800 would've given Atari some staying power to play the game when the NES hit home gaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 I just reread that transcript and they mentioned that a Joust character on the 7800 has 12 colors. The character images I made for Kenfused's Q*bert were three colors and only three colors. Does this mean they used some clever trick to make that Joust character seem like it's 12 colors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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