Rybags Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Just put a double X in the game name. We're having similar crap in Australia. Since Virgin expanded and started an airline, credit card and mobile phone services here, they've been chasing down any small business with Virgin in it's name... even some 20+ years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I'm not sure "what's wrong" in other countries. Here in Germany we have several organisations named "ASTRA".... then there is the Astra Sattelite (SES) and the common Vauxhall ASTRA car..... If they were all "cease & desist"-ing each other.... And, when googling, you find several different firms and products called "reaxion". Mh... I should send nintendo such "cease & desist" mail, because they used the name "Mario" which is my "zertificated trademark" (pre-name) Hey.... they made Billions with it... I am rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 (edited) [double post] Edited January 27, 2006 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 The reason why the US company needs to send out the letter is due to protecting their trademark (valid or not at this point) - If a company does not defend its trademark while they know someone else is using it then they will lose the trademark. Thats about as far as I go I cant see how they could trademark that name for software since it was used in the past - though, a company needs to re-up a trademark every 20 years otherwise they lose it. Ford released a car called the Ford GT - it was based upon the Ford GT40 of the 60's. Since Ford didnt reup the GT40 nameplate some other company trademarked it in a 'car usage' form - therefore Ford could not put it on the new car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I'm not sure "what's wrong" in other countries. Here in Germany we have several organisations named "ASTRA".... then there is the Astra Sattelite (SES) and the common Vauxhall ASTRA car..... If they were all "cease & desist"-ing each other.... From what i understand (and still on shaky ground because i'm not legally minded, it's not logical enough!) the issue isn't so much the same name used in multiple places it's when they're in similar markets; the company in question does mobile gaming, Reaxion is a game. If it were Reaxion face care (made that one up, what's the odds it exists? =-) it wouldn't be an issue so different firms and products called "Astra" are fine because they don't infringe on each other. i think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 (edited) Just put a double X in the game name. To be honest, it's partly the principle of the thing; we've had the name since 1994 and, again from what i understand, have an unregistered trademark because it was used commercially - in theory, the registered trademark they're trying to defend shouldn't have been issued because of that, let alone a "threat" to our use of the name. Oh... can i just apologise for pushing this topic well off course? It's the first time i've even mentioned this in public and it all sort of flooded out, sorry...! Edited January 27, 2006 by TMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) Oh... can i just apologise for pushing this topic well off course? It's the first time i've even mentioned this in public and it all sort of flooded out, sorry...! 1008163[/snapback] Is it really off topic? It's always a shaky ground when re-creating software. OK. Most older Software Producers aren't interested anymore on their "abandonware", others named the old software freeware, but some of them want to keep the full copyright. Particular when it comes to porting of those games for Mobile Phone, they seem to snoop much money around it. The Software ABBUC provides, is named "free" or the "rights" are given to the Club. Eventually, particular AtariAge, would do good, to have a Database about Software that is really free or not. (only a suggestion) Edited January 28, 2006 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Is it really off topic? Well, it is for this particular thread; it started out as lists of recent games - thinking about it, this subject does need a bit of coverage i think. It's always a shaky ground when re-creating software. OK. Most older Software Producers aren't interested anymore on their "abandonware", others named the old software freeware, but some of them want to keep the full copyright. Particular when it comes to porting of those games for Mobile Phone, they seem to snoop much money around it. Got to "love" big business... tell you what, if we don't hear anything back about the cease and desist they're going to love it when Reaxion Mobile gets released... i even told them about it in one of the emails, Sack made a bit of a start ages ago. T'be honest, this "grey area" of rights is why i'm more than a little nervous of game ports; much as seeing Game X on the Atari sounds like a cool idea, i'd rather see a totally original product developed that [ahem] bears a resemblance rather than a direct copy of the original. Up until that C&D email, i didn't think anyone'd bother chasing us for non-profit (or minimal profit) releases but if the name can cause issues it's getting a tad worrying. i've gone near the wire myself in the past with Millennium Assault on the C64, i nicked bits of the Star Wars franchise without permission but it's more a "tribute" than anything else so i'm hoping they'll be cool with that like Core Design were about our Tomb Raider one-filer, they even sent promo freebies! 'Tis worrying, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 i am working in game biz and i can tell you that my feelings are that if they want you (not you Jason, coders in general) to stop then simply because they see opportunities to turn their IPs into (potential) commercial succesfull franchises...and due to new mobile devises there are plenty more revenue streams possible so they might care if they get notice of... sad but true... some see this underground homebrew as vintage or underground PR...some see that simply as "attack" to their IP... and with all these emulators, portable consoles, "C64" sticks etc... cell phones all want to make their 2 cents... but look how many casual games are around with copied game ideas or game logics...or better on mobile devices... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 and to add the "just add another X"... well in german law this is not possible...and you were mad to do it... think of "my brand Porshe"...would they care here in stuttgart??? YES they would... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 and to add the "just add another X"... well in german law this is not possible...and you were mad to do it... think of "my brand Porshe"...would they care here in stuttgart??? YES they would... 1008446[/snapback] From what i gathered previously, corruptions are seen (at least under U.S. law) as being the same as the word they're a corruption of; "reaxion" or "reaxxion" are both seen as the word "reaction" so it'd still be a violation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Up until that C&D email, i didn't think anyone'd bother chasing us for non-profit (or minimal profit) releases but if the name can cause issues it's getting a tad worrying. The name is typically what is worth the most to the company. Think of Donkey Kong, for instance. The code (copyright) and the game play (I have no idea if this falls under copyright or patent laws) are practically useless to a company now, but the name (trademark) is potentially worth a lot and most company's who own these trademarks aren't willing to part with them. "Atari" is a case in point. People often confuse copyright and trademark, but they aren't the same thing (I know that you aren't making this mistake, TMR.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 TMR, that is what exactly what i wanted to show with "Porshe" vs "Porsche". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 People often confuse copyright and trademark, but they aren't the same thing (I know that you aren't making this mistake, TMR.) 1008851[/snapback] Heh, up until a couple of weeks ago i wasn't sure of the difference either - i had to find out fairly rapidly. =-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 TMR, that is what exactly what i wanted to show with "Porshe" vs "Porsche". 1008878[/snapback] It's like when a student called Mike Rowe wanted to put a site up; since he wanted to show off his web dev skills and thought it sounded cool to have a similar name, he registered MikeRoweSoft.com and guess who sent their lawyers knocking on his door...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 And err, - tomorrow every producer of a dictionary, novel, magazine, etc. has to put a "tm" sign behind the plural of the word "window", since this a a trademark of Microsoft; a worldwide law will then be signed, that where-ever this word is going to be used the tm sign has to be there... - the day after tomorrow everyone from Scotland (and elsewhere in the world) has to put a tm sign behind his name "Mc", since Mc is a tm of Mc Donald`s... - and later millions of other words are trademarked this way, including not only Jaguar, Falcon, Lynx and such, but also everyday and natural words or names, like Fox, Astra, Mars, Voyager, Bounty, Mario, Luigi, Queen, Lion, Scorpion... and un-countable others... As a result, all books, novels, magazines, ... simply all written word (including e-mails, sms, mms, etc.) has to be proved if its a tm or not. Thus any writing will result in every 2nd or 3rd word having a tm behind it and a long footer to whom this tm belongs to... Andreas Magenheimer P.S.: Let`s see who`s gonna tm the vocals a, e, i, o and u and asks payments for using them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 And err,- tomorrow every producer of a dictionary, novel, magazine, etc. has to put a "tm" sign behind the plural of the word "window", since this a a trademark of Microsoft; a worldwide law will then be signed, that where-ever this word is going to be used the tm sign has to be there... As long as someone doesn't try to produce a computer operating system and name it Windows it's not an issue, so companies selling double glazing aren't going to be getting cease and desists from Microsoft's lawers any time soon. That's the problem we hit though, Reaxion the game and Reaxion the mobile gaming company - they saw it as us using the name to get recognition for our product because they'd not done their homework properly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 To be honest I'm not so sure about finishing or releasing the mobile version. That would be heading into the same territory as Apple (msuic) vs apple (computers) where 2 organisations using a trademark rightfully end up in the same busniess area and all hell breaks loose. This argument has been going on for 5 years now and still nobody has a clue so it's possibly best steered clear of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Hmm, do you mean Apple (the records of THE BEATLES) vs. Apple (the computers, mp3-players, etc.) ?!? Well, afaik the music company was there (in the 1960`s) long before the computer company (in the late 1970`s)... So, if memory serves correct, Apple computers (Steve Jobs company) would lose the name battle at court... -Andreas Magenheimer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Hmm,do you mean Apple (the records of THE BEATLES) vs. Apple (the computers, mp3-players, etc.) ?!? Well, afaik the music company was there (in the 1960`s) long before the computer company (in the late 1970`s)... So, if memory serves correct, Apple computers (Steve Jobs company) would lose the name battle at court... -Andreas Magenheimer. 1009702[/snapback] Maybe. From what I've seen and heard, its not always the person/company who is in the right that wins the legal battle. Often it's the person with the most money. What do you think TMR's appetite for a protracted court battle with the company mentioned above is? I think lawyers know this, and send the C&D letters mainly to scare you into doing the "right" thing, even though they know they probably couldn't hope to win in court. But what do I know? I'm not a lawyer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 regarding apple vs apple... it depends on what we call "Warenklasse" in germany or category... i can trademark a brand in all categories or just in some... depends on money etc... so you'll find brands coexisting but they brand different goods... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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