holygrailvideogames.com Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I have about 10 broken 5200 joysticks in my basement. They all have various issues with buttons. If I put in a new Rev. 9 flex ciruit in each one would this typically be good enough to fix most of them? I have looked over the prices on the Best site and it gets pretty expensive replacing all of the fire buttons and keypads. I need to sell off some of my systems and I would like to sell them with working joysticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickHarrisMaine Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I have about 10 broken 5200 joysticks in my basement. They all have various issues with buttons. If I put in a new Rev. 9 flex ciruit in each one would this typically be good enough to fix most of them? I have looked over the prices on the Best site and it gets pretty expensive replacing all of the fire buttons and keypads. I need to sell off some of my systems and I would like to sell them with working joysticks. 1018760[/snapback] Try this first. Tale them apart, and on the rubber buttons, take a pencil eraser and give each "dot" a good rub with it, then put them back together. That may work. Second, you may want to try and put a piece of foil over all the dots. This works best with a regular hole punch and a roll of foil tape, available at any hardware store (usually used for air duct repairs). Also, if you look at the flex circuit, you may see some carbon "tracks" on them. it comes off with a pencil eraser as well. Finally, if all else fails, a new rev. 9 circuit can be had on eBay for $5.95 plus shipping. Of course, fully rebuilding with rev. 9 gold flex and new buttons is the way to go, but maybe just do it for the ones you want to keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRetroGamer Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I have about 10 broken 5200 joysticks in my basement. They all have various issues with buttons. If I put in a new Rev. 9 flex ciruit in each one would this typically be good enough to fix most of them? I have looked over the prices on the Best site and it gets pretty expensive replacing all of the fire buttons and keypads. I need to sell off some of my systems and I would like to sell them with working joysticks. 1018760[/snapback] It's really hard to say for sure, but in my experience dealing with many controllers, the circuit replacement ALONE does not always do it. You may get lucky and find that a few will work that way, but most will probably not. You may also have problems with the Start pad buttons & the fire buttons; then sometimes the number pad buttons may have a few dead keys which can either be the pad OR the cable. If that's not bad enough, after all that sometimes the damn pots are so far out of spec that even after replacing everything, a sligh adjustment on the pot arm doesn't really correct it enough to give it the proper response on some games! If you are going to sell them, if they are not absolutely 100% working you will have some unhappy customers. You want to make sure that after you sell it and ship it out, the controller is not going to have to come back to you for any reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 DO NOT USE AN ERASER OF ANY KIND ON THE FLEX CIRCUITS WITH CARBON TRACES!!!! They are carbon traces...what do you think will happen if you use a rubber eraser on carbon? yeah...you end up erasing the traces themselves. I have tested this on broken carbon based rev 9 flex circuits and you can erase the traces. I would advise that if you want working controllers for minimal cost, that you clean the metal trace flexes with an eraser and use alcohol for the carbon ones. Then on the dots themselves, they actually loose their conductiveness over time and become the 2nd half of the problem. To fix this you either buy a set of the dots that have gold contacts on them. (Expensive), or do as I and I believe a few others do. I clean off the dots of their years of finger oil grime and dirt by dragging the dots across card stock making about 3 6inch lines to get them clean. Then I use foil auto tape that I got at AutoZone for like 2.50 for a 10ft roll and using either a hole punch or scissors, I apply the foil to the dots themselves. I have literally dozens of 5200 controllers I have fixed this way over the years that are still working to the best of knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 http://members.cox.net/crossbow777/guides/..._gd/5200_rep_gd 5200 joystick repair with detailed photos and steps, as described above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenporter Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I have about 10 broken 5200 joysticks in my basement. They all have various issues with buttons. If I put in a new Rev. 9 flex ciruit in each one would this typically be good enough to fix most of them? I have looked over the prices on the Best site and it gets pretty expensive replacing all of the fire buttons and keypads. I need to sell off some of my systems and I would like to sell them with working joysticks. 1018760[/snapback] How much do you want for systems wtithout joysticks. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklord1977 Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 my friend had about 12 broken 5200 controllers...thn we were at a convention last summer and a guy there was selling the new rev flex circuits so we bought a bunch of them and repaired them now we have lots of spare controllers that actually work now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 You should start selling them here for $15 a pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklord1977 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 actually, we sold them on e bay for 40 dollars each and they all sold in a week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Well, your avatar is appropriate, then. Of course, the suckers that bought your used sticks for more than a refurbed Best Electronics gold-dot stick probably deserved to be raped, anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Ummm, he changed out the flex circuit and then sold them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 $40 a pop for a used CX52 with a new flex circuit? That is a lot more than Best Electronics sells "like new" Gold Dot refurbs for. And, like I said, the suckers on eBay got what they deserved. I'm not laying the blame solely at his feet. If he had to sit on them for a couple months with few or no takers, he would have probably dropped his price to something more reasonable. It is a shame that sellers can get away with gouging like that... and it is a shame that buyers are stupid enough to be gouged that badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Speaking of which... is there any "Go down to Kragen and by this automotive part, some rubber cement, and a pair of scissors" fix for Atari CX40/CX78 type dome contacts that are worn, or is my best bet to buy a set of 100 replacements from the dude on eBay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I've never seen a fix other than new domes. I suspect a particularly creative individual could make one, though. Anyways, I would bet that to the best of his knowledge the sticks WERE like new. ... And am I the only person that REALLY wishes Best would overhaul their website? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 To the best (knowledge) of the buyer, or to the seller? Like new from a private party still isn't the same as refurbished with a 90 day warranty from a dealer, IMHO. Would you pay more for a used car from a private party than from a dealer, all other things being "equal"? Really, in this case, we don't have all the facts, but I'm assuming that the only fix/upgrade was a new flex circuit. Best Electronics gold-dot stick is a far more significant refurb. And, I absolutely agree with you about the Best website. It strikes me that the proprietor is a little on the eccentric side and probably more into the tinkering than into the marketing and sales. He reminds me of the F&L Cheeper guy who used to publish rants on the side of his paper bags, here in California. I'm going to open a new thread to discuss the CX40/78 domes. Feel free to follow me there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklord1977 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Well, your avatar is appropriate, then. Of course, the suckers that bought your used sticks for more than a refurbed Best Electronics gold-dot stick probably deserved to be raped, anyhow. whats wrong with free enterprise? its the american way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 $40 a pop for a used CX52 with a new flex circuit? That is a lot more than Best Electronics sells "like new" Gold Dot refurbs for. And, like I said, the suckers on eBay got what they deserved. I'm not laying the blame solely at his feet. If he had to sit on them for a couple months with few or no takers, he would have probably dropped his price to something more reasonable. It is a shame that sellers can get away with gouging like that... and it is a shame that buyers are stupid enough to be gouged that badly. What are you talking about $40.00 is very reasonable for a fully refurbished gold dot controller. I paid $70 for a pair just a few years ago from a very reputable source and Best Electronics charges $44.46 for 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 (edited) Sku_u... actually, we sold them on e bay for 40 dollars each and they all sold in a week... Darklord (fitting name and avatar) claims to have sold his sticks for $40 a pop, with just a flex circuit replacement. $5 less for non-gold-dot sticks, from a private party. Again... I had this debate with the guys over the idea that a 7800 with a CC2 setup was worth $210 used. I don't think you understand what a good deal or "real reasonable" really means... When I can get a dealer refurbished "whatever" with a 90 day warranty for $90 (44.50x2)... paying $70 (35x2) for the same thing with no real warranty from a private party is NOT "real reasonable". That is $10 less per stick. $55 for two would have been "real reasonable" and $50 would have been a KILLER deal. But in either case, in this example, we're talking about a guy charging $40 *each* for a stick that is all original except for a replaced flex circuit... or $80 a pair for used 5200 joysticks, when you could have a new gold-dot pair for $10 more from Best Electronics (without the core deposit. If you've got the core deposit, your cost will be LESS than Darklord's asking price). I just don't see where Darklord's "Value-add" was in this deal. Perhaps not laughing in the buyers face and calling them a sucka was the premium service he was offering. Darklord... the first time someone "Free Enterprises" you and you realize you've paid 20-40% too much for an item... you'll be singing a different tune. I mean, caveat emptor. If you can sleep with yourself, more power to you. I started my career in a retail used PC shop that bought and sold, so I raped them when they came in with a machine, and I raped them when I sold that machine to the next person. I didn't like myself or the job very much, although I was good at it. Our formula was this. We bought PCs at 40% of our expected LOW retail on that item used. We then marked them at a HIGH retail on the floor, and if the customer didn't dicker, that is what they sold for. This could translate into buying a machine for say, $80, and selling it for as much as $800, sometimes because of sale prices, for MORE than you could get the item for new. Ok... I'm off my soapbox and high horse. This is just one of my pet peeves in this hobby. Prices are artificially high for garage-sale equipment. Frickin' "collectors". Actually, the more I think about his name, the more I'm wondering if these guys are using Jedi-mind tricks on weak-minded fools. (Waving hand) You want to pay top dollar for used parts.... "I want to pay top dollar for used parts"... Edited March 30, 2006 by Paranoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklord1977 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Sku_u... actually, we sold them on e bay for 40 dollars each and they all sold in a week... Darklord (fitting name and avatar) claims to have sold his sticks for $40 a pop, with just a flex circuit replacement. $5 less for non-gold-dot sticks, from a private party. Again... I had this debate with the guys over the idea that a 7800 with a CC2 setup was worth $210 used. I don't think you understand what a good deal or "real reasonable" really means... When I can get a dealer refurbished "whatever" with a 90 day warranty for $90 (44.50x2)... paying $70 (35x2) for the same thing with no real warranty from a private party is NOT "real reasonable". That is $10 less per stick. $55 for two would have been "real reasonable" and $50 would have been a KILLER deal. But in either case, in this example, we're talking about a guy charging $40 *each* for a stick that is all original except for a replaced flex circuit... or $80 a pair for used 5200 joysticks, when you could have a new gold-dot pair for $10 more from Best Electronics (without the core deposit. If you've got the core deposit, your cost will be LESS than Darklord's asking price). I just don't see where Darklord's "Value-add" was in this deal. Perhaps not laughing in the buyers face and calling them a sucka was the premium service he was offering. Darklord... the first time someone "Free Enterprises" you and you realize you've paid 20-40% too much for an item... you'll be singing a different tune. I mean, caveat emptor. If you can sleep with yourself, more power to you. I started my career in a retail used PC shop that bought and sold, so I raped them when they came in with a machine, and I raped them when I sold that machine to the next person. I didn't like myself or the job very much, although I was good at it. Our formula was this. We bought PCs at 40% of our expected LOW retail on that item used. We then marked them at a HIGH retail on the floor, and if the customer didn't dicker, that is what they sold for. This could translate into buying a machine for say, $80, and selling it for as much as $800, sometimes because of sale prices, for MORE than you could get the item for new. Ok... I'm off my soapbox and high horse. This is just one of my pet peeves in this hobby. Prices are artificially high for garage-sale equipment. Frickin' "collectors". Actually, the more I think about his name, the more I'm wondering if these guys are using Jedi-mind tricks on weak-minded fools. (Waving hand) You want to pay top dollar for used parts.... "I want to pay top dollar for used parts"... ive seen guys on e bay charging a lot more than 40.00 for a 5200 stick i saw a guy charging 50.00 so cut me some slack geeze (i cant give these sticks away for free) i was not pulling anybodys leg to buy it they wanted a good rebuilt controller, so they bought one. i use one of the sticks ive sold and i have no problems at all in fact i might put some more up soon..but i will give the atariage people first crack at them:)... and i assure you no jedi mind tricks LOL and let me say, ive had bad dealings on e bay as well ,so i know how it goes.. one rule that people should keep in mind when dealing with e bay..and its let the buyer beware(and its also let the seller beware .. the reason why i charged 40.00 is because ive had people never send in their payments in the past and i have to relist..and that causes problems, so with this price if the SERIOUS atari fan wants it he will pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklord1977 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 this goes to " paranoid."... how much do you want to pay for a 5200 stick?? 12.00?? thats unrealistic look at it from a business stand point.. when you spend time getting up your site, working on your goods to sell.(it takes money to make money remember that) then you can voice your opinion until then if you dont want the item dont buy it ..its as simple as that(anybody else would say the same thing to you im not ragging on you im just voicing my opinion im a star wars collector and i see how the people jack up the prices im not saying its fair..but it all comes down to supply and demand if people want or need the item they will pay for it ive done it myself from time to time..paying extra its not right but thats how things work...you cant give this stuff away free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Ok... ok... I'll cut you some slack... You're a good intentioned Dark Lord of the Sith... "Caveat emptor" is the Latin for "let the buyer beware"... And I agree about eBay incurring extra costs for the seller, too. Not to mention, people turn to eBay when they don't know where else to find something. It isn't YOUR fault that your buyers weren't smart enough to do some googling and read some forums to find that newer sticks in better condition were available for just slightly more with a 90 day warranty. In the eBay market, *your* price might have been a GOOD deal. I suppose eBay is the real problem. It is the emperor... you're just his unwitting henchman... Really, though... I'm not flaming you, really. I come off as having a strong opinion on pricing, but at the same time, if you can sell something for $80 somewhere else, and only $40 here, generally speaking, you would be a fool to lose $40 profit per item just out of the goodness of your heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Again... I had this debate with the guys over the idea that a 7800 with a CC2 setup was worth $210 used. I don't think you understand what a good deal or "real reasonable" really means... I see, so I guess I must just be the luckiest guy on Atariage for acquiring a complete boxed 5200 collection and every peripheral ever made for the system complete as well as a complete boxed 7800 collection and an almost complete boxed 2600 collection on a teacher's salary since I clearly don't know what I'm saying here or what a reasonable deal is. When I can get a dealer refurbished "whatever" with a 90 day warranty for $90 (44.50x2)... paying $70 (35x2) for the same thing with no real warranty from a private party is NOT "real reasonable". That is $10 less per stick. $55 for two would have been "real reasonable" and $50 would have been a KILLER deal. The person I bought those from is a friend of mine and would definitely repair them if they did not work well beyond 90 days. He actually fixed one for me for free YEARS after he'd initially fixed them. So, yes, I got a good deal I'm happy with. I don't think you have any idea what is involved in creating new items/repairing old ones for a niche group. One's time is also valuable as no one here does this sort of thing for a living. It's not like he was charging $200 for a new controller and people were buying it. You're talking about a small difference in price. But in either case, in this example, we're talking about a guy charging $40 *each* for a stick that is all original except for a replaced flex circuit... or $80 a pair for used 5200 joysticks, when you could have a new gold-dot pair for $10 more from Best Electronics (without the core deposit. If you've got the core deposit, your cost will be LESS than Darklord's asking price). I just don't see where Darklord's "Value-add" was in this deal. Perhaps not laughing in the buyers face and calling them a sucka was the premium service he was offering. Who cares? Not everyone wants to research how to fix a 5200 controller and is happy with buying one guaranteed to work. A difference of $10 is not worth the effort for a lot of people. That doesn't make them the weak minded fools you seem to think they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklord1977 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 what would you expect to pay for a 5200 controller? (since people are selling them for 30.. 40 and up i was in a video game place in vancouver im march and this guy was selling rebuilt 5200 sticks for 90.00 and he says they sell well) what would you charge if you were selling them while trying to make a profit?? id like to hear your thoughts on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 On the second post... Listen, your first post made it sound like you and a pal had a carton of broken sticks in the basement, bought some flex circuits, fixed them, and decided to sell them. Not really a "business model". But, if you were a dealer, what kind of value add were you offering with the sale of the item? You *weren't* an established Atari retailer with years of experience and proven lasting power. There *is* a value add in that. Best Electronics and 4-Jays can say, "Been in business for 20 years, plan on being in business for another 20"... The guy with a box of refurbed joysticks on eBay can't make that claim. Were you offering a DOA warranty, how about a 90 day parts and labor warranty? Or was it, as-is, all sales final? If I buy a 5200 stick, used, "tested and working", from a private party, I'd expect to pay between $15 and $25 per stick. $25 would be the high end, so, "cleaned, replaced flex circuit, added foil dots to keypad, doa warranty"... would be the kind of thing that would encourage me that way. Someone like JB, who has a strong reputation for knowing the 5200 stick... I'd probably pay as much as $30 including shipping and handling for a stick he had personally cleaned and done a foil dot upgrade on. And what I told the guy with the 7800 applies to you, too. *YOU*, as a private party, cannot expect to sell an item for %5 *less* than an established dealer will sell the item for new or refurbished with a warranty. Well... that isn't true, because, you *did*, obviously. In reality, when you add the cost of a gold-dot upgrade, you charged MORE than Best Electronics does. Shirleysswapshop always gets brow-beat for his asking prices and padded shipping in the For Sale forums here, and he *is* clearly in this as a business proposition. A guy with a one-off 7800, or single-lot of 5200 sticks isn't the same thing. You've got a bunch of sticks, when they're gone, they're gone. If my stick from you dies 89 days out and you've sold all your stock, I'm out of luck. A guy like Chad Schell actually hangs on to some of his stock for warranty and repair purposes. The price of hanging onto those goes into his retail price on his stock that he sells, and if on day 89 my cuttle cart dies, I contact him, he'll say, "send it back, I've got another one I'll send to you". That is the value add (well, one of them) that allows Best Electronics to "reasonably" charge $44.50 for a 5200 gold dot joystick. Because Chad has a business license and has a publically posted warranty policy, he is *legally* obligated to make it right within his warranty period. A private party is not held to the same level of accountability. People want it both ways, they want to ask the prices of a retail shop, but have the accountability post sale of a private party. And listen, this is all just MY opinion. Obviously my voice is drowned out in a frenzy of mindless consumer consumption. Which frustrates me to no end. I know I'm *right* (in some "natural law/higher moral ground" way), but the truth of the situation is that you *can* do exactly what you DID do. And as far as the "higher moral ground" thing, I can't say that I would do any *different* than you, either. I'm sitting on a STACK of P2 300 systems that I'm not going to let go for any less than the top dollar I can get for them. What I should do is donate them to some church, charity, or school that could really use them. It is simply a pet peeve and frustration of mine. On the one hand, as a buyer, I hate being forced to pay too much for an item simply because that is the price the market will bear. On the other hand, as a seller, I hate charging too much because I'd feel foolish letting something go for less than it could bring in. It is like throwing away money. Either way, you feel dirty or used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I see, so I guess I must just be the luckiest guy on Atariage for acquiring a complete boxed 5200 collection and every peripheral ever made for the system complete as well as a complete boxed 7800 collection and an almost complete boxed 2600 collection on a teacher's salary since I clearly don't know what I'm saying here or what a reasonable deal is. Well, one of the guys who was willing to pay $210 for a 7800 with CC2 was saying if he could make the rent and had enough left, he would pick that "good deal" up. My response was, "if you're wondering if you can make the rent and have enough left over, maybe a used 7800 system isn't the best use of your discretionary income". You don't say what your paying price for this collection was, so I'd say to you, I don't have enough data on just how lucky you are. You teachers like to act like you all struggle to make ends meet on $30k a year while buying supplies for all of your inner-city students in your underfunded public school, too... and that isn't *really* the case. Saying you live on a "Teacher's salary" can encompass a pretty wide range of income levels and levels of self-sacrifice for your students. I'm not saying that teachers aren't underappreciated, either. Again, "teacher's salary" is vauge and unclear if you want me to weigh in with my opinion. The person I bought those from is a friend of mine and would definitely repair them if they did not work well beyond 90 days. He actually fixed one for me for free YEARS after he'd initially fixed them. So, yes, I got a good deal I'm happy with. I don't think you have any idea what is involved in creating new items/repairing old ones for a niche group. One's time is also valuable as no one here does this sort of thing for a living. It's not like he was charging $200 for a new controller and people were buying it. You're talking about a small difference in price. Well... that is an unusual situation, then. Do you think Darklord would repair his sticks, a couple of years down the road, that he sold to some stranger over eBay? By the way, I've done private IT consultation for small to medium sized firms for an hourly rate as well as my work in retail. I hate to pull the, "Those who can't do, teach" thing out of my hat, but... if you're going to throw out the idea that *I* don't understand what is involved in creating new items/repairing old ones, for a niche group, I suppose you're kind of asking for it. And really, this is exactly the point. The guy who owns Best Electronics made the investment to manufacturer NEW gold dot keypads and buttons. This guy bought new flex circuits that some other guy makes. His price was as high, HIGHER, than the Best Electronics price. You're talking a small difference in price where there SHOULD be a large one. Who cares? Not everyone wants to research how to fix a 5200 controller and is happy with buying one guaranteed to work. A difference of $10 is not worth the effort for a lot of people. That doesn't make them the weak minded fools you seem to think they are. Listen... you can buy a used car. It looks like the same car. A Miata. One is for sale by a Russian dude, who does this as a business. He tells you it has been repaired. He wants $11,500 for the car. All sales are final, as-is. The same car is at a dealer's. The dealer offers a 30 day money back or swap guarantee. It is a certified used car, they promise they've done a 130 point inspection of the vehicle. The dealer price is $12,500. This is a pretty real scenario, and a LOT of people buy from the Russian guy for the $11.5k. It isn't worth the $1000 savings to them. That doesn't make their purchase a wise, researched, educated, or SMART purchase. Period. Aren't you guys supposed to teach critical thinking? I keed... I keed... teachers are just such easy targets. It could be worse, I could have been one of your students... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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