Broken joysticks

[Paranoid]

what would you expect to pay for a 5200 controller? (since people are selling them for 30.. 40 and up i was in a video game place in vancouver im march and this guy was selling rebuilt 5200 sticks for 90.00 and he says they sell well) what would you charge if you were selling them while trying to make a profit?? id like to hear your thoughts on this

 

I wouldn't buy one from a private party. Far too much risk involved. We know that even with a new flex circuit, in 3 weeks shipping time from one coast to another buttons may start to fail and it may need cleaning upon arrival. I'd buy from Best Electronics, or work out a suitable trade among trusted people here on AtariAge. So, around $40 from an established retailer for a guaranteed stick is what I would pay.

 

If I were going to open a business, I'd have a ready, reliable and steady supply of stock, I'd have a business license, and I'd open a legitimate storefront. I'd either try to undercut Best Electronics and sell at about $35 for a refurbed gold-dot with a 90 day warranty, or I'd try to find a value add and roll that into the price (lifetime warranty, $90, for example). If I couldn't do either of these and make a profit, I'd figure I didn't have a reasonable business model, and I wouldn't go into that business. Although, I don't think opening a store that only sells 5200 sticks is a profitable model, either. Selling a random loosely related collections of nick-nacks isn't a very rewarding career path, either, for most people. I'd want to have at least the presence, selection, and specialized focus of 4-Jays or Best Electronics if I were going to make a go at that business, and personally, I think they and a handful of others have that market cornered, anyhow. More or less, I don't think there IS a profitable model that is anything but a fly-by-night selling this used equipment for profit.

 

I mean, seriously, this is why MOST small businesses fail. People don't actually consider these factors. They just decide, "I've got this stuff, I can sell it for more than I paid, I'm gonna get rich"... And fail doesn't mean that you don't make some money. Fail means that your business model doesn't last or grow. It is one scheme to the next to make money... which isn't a good model to build a business on.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Paranoid

[NovaXpress]

Happy seller + happy buyer = successful transaction

 

Who cares what a third party thinks of the deal?

[sku_u]

I keed... I keed... teachers are just such easy targets. It could be worse, I could have been one of your students...

 

What, you actually think anything you said bothered me? You're pretty bold for a newbie. I'm actually finding all of this funny since you're arguing against yourself.

[NovaXpress]

I know I'm *right* (in some "natural law/higher moral ground" way)

I have a feeling that Paranoid says this to himself a lot. Even when choosing a donut.

[Paranoid]

I keed... I keed... teachers are just such easy targets. It could be worse, I could have been one of your students...

 

What, you actually think anything you said bothered me? You're pretty bold for a newbie. I'm actually finding all of this funny since you're arguing against yourself.

 

You're a moderator, Sku... it is always best to err on the side of caution with the guys who can yank messages and ban accounts.

 

 

I'm not arguing, really. I think I've made clear that my OPINION and my real world actions are at odds with themselves.

 

Nova, are you really *stalking* threads I'm posting in, waiting for a chance to try and troll me, now? Listen, your credibility is *shot* with me. Keep trying if it makes you happy, but there isn't a thing you could say I would rise to, now... mmmkay?

 

Your opinion = >0 to me.

[sku_u]

I keed... I keed... teachers are just such easy targets. It could be worse, I could have been one of your students...

 

What, you actually think anything you said bothered me? You're pretty bold for a newbie. I'm actually finding all of this funny since you're arguing against yourself.

 

You're a moderator, Sku... it is always best to err on the side of caution with the guys who can yank messages and ban accounts.

 

 

 

You don't have to worry about that with any moderators here. Members get banned for things like trolling or excessive flaming. Not arguing, debating or getting on our nerves.

[Paranoid]

Well... I kinda figured that, being that Zylon and Nova are still around.

 

:D

[PacManPlus]

Not to de-rail the thread, but every time I see the subject line, I think of the song 'Broken Wings' by Mr. Mister

 

"Take... these broken sticks.... and learn to play again"

Edited March 30, 2006 by PacManPlus

[MrRetroGamer]

Not to de-rail the thread, but every time I see the subject line, I think of the song 'Broken Wings' by Mr. Mister

 

"Take... these broken sticks.... and learn to play again"

 

 

To be honest, I personally find selling rebuilt sticks is more of a PITA then it is worth. I've got BOXES and BOXES of dead 5200 sticks laying around waiting for me to fix them and sell them. I don't look forward to doing it anymore. First of all, it's time consuming to really do it right. Next, replacing the circuits and buttons are only part of the battle. You can replace all those and then find out that the number keypad is bad too. Or the boot is ripped. Or the nameplate is crudded up. Or the cable has a short. Or the damn POTS DON'T READ WITHIN SPEC ANYMORE! Then if you think you got everything working OK and test it out on your KNOWN WORKING 5200 console and ship it, the buyer comes back and says that on his console Pac Man doesn't move properly in one direction or something else is wrong. You bang your head trying to figure out what the problem is - is it a bent controller port pin on the console, did controller port 1 have a solder point break and stop working, is the mobo suffering from electronic drift and you need to adjust pot R132 by taking the entire thing apart?! Then you find out the person just got the console off eBay and doesn't even know if it works!!!

 

Thanks I'm done ranting.

[darklord1977]

look i know ebay is " the emperor" as one person here mentioned i had this idea to sell them so i did..but not before they were fixed and tested to work properly i would not sell something that i would not use myself

[darklord1977]

hey "paranoid" i respect a person with a stong opinion

[JB]

Then you find out the person just got the console off eBay and doesn't even know if it works!!!

 

Thanks I'm done ranting.

Justifiable homicide. If I was on the jury, you'd walk.

[Paranoid]

hey "paranoid" i respect a person with a stong opinion

 

Thanks. And I don't mean any disrespect towards you, either. I agree that you performed a service and provided goods and charged what you felt that service and those goods justified. There really is nothing wrong with that.

[MrRetroGamer]

@paranoid -

 

If you think you can sell rebuilt 5200 sticks for less than the prices you see in this thread and have it still be worth it for your time and effort, BY ALL MEANS DO IT. I'll send you a bunch of broken ones and then you can see how easy it really is.

[Paranoid]

You're offering to ship me broken 5200 sticks at your expense for free?

 

I'll PM you my shipping address...

 

I've been out of work for 3 years... my time *is* free. I think I can make money on your deal as stated, *and* sell 5200 joysticks refurbished at a VERY reasonable and competitive price. I think you picked the wrong guy to make this offer to.

 

I'm willing to say that with the deal you're offering, not only can I sell and make money on 5200 sticks at a more reasonable price, but I can undercut the prices stated here by at least 40%. I'll kick you back 2% per completed sale.

[Paranoid]

I'll tell you what... there is a guy... Jay something... who is making and selling Radica Space Invaders sticks for between $25-40 here on the forums. I talked with him, and he helped me make my own stick. I went out and picked up a Radica SI stick for $10... and used a Proline as a donor for parts. My cost was, to me, (because my time is free), I'd say $12... maybe $12.50. When I saw how easy it was, how quickly I could kick them out... I decided to try a Jakk's Ms. Pac Man stick. That was even easier. The thought that I could certainly undercut Jay's business certainly crossed my mind. I could do these sticks all day for $25 shipped, or $15 if you provided your own stick... and I could make good money in the process. I've got a $475k jumbo loan on a 1.2 million dollar McMansion that I need to pay down, too... so it would take a LOT of joysticks to make it worth my while.

 

But really, to me... it is a question of ethics. Jay asks a fair price, offers a great service, and for those who could not otherwise enjoy this stick, he makes it available to them. Probably by giving up time when he could actually be playing on his OWN consoles. It is clear to me that Jay is doing what he does as a service to the Atari retro community. People being *shitty* turns this from a fun hobby into a distrustful, unenjoyable business opportunity.

 

No thanks. If you want to send me the joysticks on your dime, I'll be happy to repair them for Atari Age subscribers for the cost of parts plus a minimal payment for my time and effort and shipping and handling. Like I said, if you give them to me for free, I bet I could do them for between $15-$25... which is a *reasonable* amount to charge.

 

I'm all about alturism with this hobby... and I don't think it will survive if that isn't a value that is embraced.

 

My guess is that you're not going to take me up on this offer. You're going to sit on your pile of broken 5200 sticks like Smaug on his pile of tarnished riches, unable to let go of the idea that those sticks *may* be worth *something* and you would be a fool to let them go for free.

 

And maybe you're right. Who knows.

Edited April 2, 2006 by Paranoid

[MrRetroGamer]

... my time *is* free.

 

Well then, that is the difference. Maybe your time is free, but most people put a value on their time, I know I do. With a full time job and full time family obligations, time is more valuable than ever to me.

 

For someone that has been a member of Atari Age for only about 2 months, I don't really know exactly what has ticked you off so much already about being here and the community in general? I've been an active member on this board almost since DAY 1 five years ago and I've exchanged plenty of trades/deals/advice and FAVORS with many AA members. This is a 2 way street and that's what makes this place great.

 

 

My guess is that you're not going to take me up on this offer

 

Actually it was MY OFFER to YOU. I'm not in the habit of blowing smoke up peoples asses. I've never dealt with you and I don't even know you, BUT I'm willing to send you a small Priority Mail Flat Rate box with a bunch of my "tarnished riches" for you to deal with. However, there is no such thing as a free lunch here paranoid - you have to pony up the $8.05 for the shipping before you can become the new joystick king.

[sku_u]

@paranoid--MrRetrogamer is the guy I was talking about. I didn't want to mention his name before he had a chance to see this thread and respond to you. When he came over for a game night, he noticed a minor issue with one of the controllers and repaired it. It was so minute that I didn't even notice it, but he knows so much about those controllers that he was able to notice. Rich is a great guy and has been providing this service for the community for years. I wouldn't think twice about buying from him again if I needed more controllers. I don't know what your hangup is about buying from members of the community, but will say that you will not be enjoy this hobby very much if all you do is complain about how much everyone charges and refuse to buy anything from anyone. You're only cheating yourself. You stated earlier that you thought $210 was absured for a CC2 even though you have no clue how much was involved in developing it and putting it out. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than going out and buying an entire 2600 and 7800 collection and a hell of a lot more convenient. Want to know how much money is involved in buying all the games the CC2 can play which is every game with the exception of Pitfall II and a small handful of homebrews? Think well into the five figures and about 20 years of collecting to get close. There are people in this community like Marco and Rick who have been collecting that long and still do not have a complete collection.

 

While you're free to express whatever opinions you like, if you piss off all of the creative people here, putting in your 2 cents everytime someone creates something to sell that by your own admission you wouldn't buy due to a lack of trust anyway, you'll find that they are no longer willing to help you and only put up with you as an annoyance rather than as a member of the community. Is that what you want?

[Paranoid]

... my time *is* free.

 

Well then, that is the difference. Maybe your time is free, but most people put a value on their time, I know I do. With a full time job and full time family obligations, time is more valuable than ever to me.

 

For someone that has been a member of Atari Age for only about 2 months, I don't really know exactly what has ticked you off so much already about being here and the community in general? I've been an active member on this board almost since DAY 1 five years ago and I've exchanged plenty of trades/deals/advice and FAVORS with many AA members. This is a 2 way street and that's what makes this place great.

 

 

My guess is that you're not going to take me up on this offer

 

Actually it was MY OFFER to YOU. I'm not in the habit of blowing smoke up peoples asses. I've never dealt with you and I don't even know you, BUT I'm willing to send you a small Priority Mail Flat Rate box with a bunch of my "tarnished riches" for you to deal with. However, there is no such thing as a free lunch here paranoid - you have to pony up the $8.05 for the shipping before you can become the new joystick king.

 

LOL...

 

Hey... my time is FREE... I want to cut corners on my costs in every way possible. You can't blame a guy for trying...

 

I really like this place, and I dig the community in *general*. I'm not even remotely ticked off about this thread, or any of the others. "Arguing on the Internet is like winning the special olympics".... I've got opinions, that you may not agree with, that I'm not shy about being vocal about. Why bother reading and posting to forums if you're not going to OPENLY discuss your opinions and debate things you disagree on? There are a lot of great people here with lots of great advice and a fantastic sense of community. There are also clearly some cliques and some politics and some power struggles that go back and forth among the various people (most of them being higher profile users) that make up this community. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I have a chip on my shoulder for the entire Atari community. As a matter of fact, I'm already trying to return the favor and "give back" where I can.

 

As far as your time being a local here versus me being a Newbie... I'm not into that kind of comparisson. There are guys around the Usenet forums who have been local and consistently *wrong* for the last 15+ years in one group or another... and Newbies coming in every day who have a wealth of information and experience to share. We can start comparing when we first dialed up to local Atari BBSs on our 300 baud accoustic coupler modems and drag out all our experience and contact in the "Atari Community" over the years. The only thing I see in that statement is that you feel that you've got some sort of veteran status here and that I should blindly respect that and show the proper humility befitting a Johhny Come Lately.

 

As for your joystick offer, I'll contemplate it. I'll try and elaborate *my* perspective on why $40 is far overpriced for a 5200 stick... I've made some real nice trades with some very easy-to-deal with users here, on Craigslist, and through other sources. In those deals, I've picked up 5200 sticks in very pristine condition, that were just in need of some routine maintainence. The more people who do this kind of thing, not trying to make any money off the deal, not trying to pad their shipping, the more enjoyable this whole experience becomes for everyone involved.

 

I checked on the Best Electronics Gold Dot joystick, refurbished, with a 90 day warranty. I paid $34 for mine, with NO core deposit. I'll scan in and provide the invoice if there is any doubt about this. His sticks come in pristine condition, with replaced boots and new silver labels protected by plastic.

$40 is *too much* for a *used* 5200 joystick with only a replaced flex circuit. I'm really wondering what it is about this obvious thruth that I am pointing out that is ticking *you* off so much. It seems like there is something *else* going on here beyond the surface of this debate... some piece of information I am missing. Did you and the guy from Best Electronics have some deal go bad in the past, or are you some sort of bitter rivals? Has he done something to offen the Atari Age community in the past? Maybe it's just my imagination. I just don't get how far you're going to try and justify that a marginally "refurbished" joystick is worth *more* than a dealer refurbished unit that is in immaculate condition.

[Paranoid]

@paranoid--MrRetrogamer is the guy I was talking about. I didn't want to mention his name before he had a chance to see this thread and respond to you. When he came over for a game night, he noticed a minor issue with one of the controllers and repaired it. It was so minute that I didn't even notice it, but he knows so much about those controllers that he was able to notice. Rich is a great guy and has been providing this service for the community for years. I wouldn't think twice about buying from him again if I needed more controllers. I don't know what your hangup is about buying from members of the community, but will say that you will not be enjoy this hobby very much if all you do is complain about how much everyone charges and refuse to buy anything from anyone. You're only cheating yourself. You stated earlier that you thought $210 was absured for a CC2 even though you have no clue how much was involved in developing it and putting it out. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than going out and buying an entire 2600 and 7800 collection and a hell of a lot more convenient. Want to know how much money is involved in buying all the games the CC2 can play which is every game with the exception of Pitfall II and a small handful of homebrews? Think well into the five figures and about 20 years of collecting to get close. There are people in this community like Marco and Rick who have been collecting that long and still do not have a complete collection.

 

While you're free to express whatever opinions you like, if you piss off all of the creative people here, putting in your 2 cents everytime someone creates something to sell that by your own admission you wouldn't buy due to a lack of trust anyway, you'll find that they are no longer willing to help you and only put up with you as an annoyance rather than as a member of the community. Is that what you want?

 

Sku... I want to respectfully submit that you haven't been reading or comprehending my posts... maybe I wasn't clear... but either way, you've misunderstood something...

 

I was talking about a post for a COMPLETE -used- CC2/7800 system for $210, plus shipping and handling. This was at a time that a brand NEW CC2 could be bought from Chad Schell for $150. If you want to check, I purchased a CC2 new from Chad and he had his payment via PayPal less than 10 minutes after the order had been placed. I've never disparaged the quality, convienience or value of the product, and I think that the R&D and quality of this product more than justifies the expensive price tag of the product, for all the reasons you cite and more. It is *still* an expensive investment in 20 year old technology, and Chad's web site doesn't make any bones about that. His site actually encourages you to really research the product before you purchase it, precisely *because* it is such an expensive item. I've posted numerous threads and posted to numerous threads proclaiming that I think the CC2 is the best thing since sliced bread and that $150 for it is a relative *steal*. I'm also absolutely aware that there are some people who have been chasing elusive and outrageously expensive "complete" collections for decades around here. I don't see the CC2 as a shortcut to that. The kind of person who is doing that will have a CC2 in ADDITION to an original "Chase the Chuckwagon"... because they're a completist and collector. A guy like me might never have more than a relative handful of ROMs on his CC2, because he is simply interested in playing the games, and not interested in expensive titles that have little or no actual play value. You can't really compare the two. A guy like Curt Vendel collecting everything remotely Atari related makese sense to me, because he is actually giving back his passion to the community and keeping it alive. A guy collecting so that he can have a basement stacked to the rafters with Atari equipment and memorabilia that will never see the light of day again until the guy dies and his stuff ends up in an estate sale, doesn't make sense to me.

 

And there is a difference, a CLEAR difference, between a guy like Jaybird, who offers to modify Radica Space Invaders joysticks for the community... or the guys who do RF mods, or the guys who offer these various services... and the guys who come through with a one-off lot of joysticks that they've patched together and they're trying to dump for the maximum price and profit that the market will bear. Jaybird bends over backwards to make this affordable and easy for the community. You can send him your own joysticks, he can modify his own stock, he goes to pains to try and make it all affordable with reasonable shippinig. Jaybird goes out of his way to help people perform the mod themselves, and isn't worried that he is "losing" sales by helping the community like this.

 

Listen, your last post, I'm seeing a lot of passion and a loss of patience or temper directed at me, combined with completely misunderstanding where I am coming from and just WHAT I've been doing and saying. If you were just a normal user, my attitude would be quite a bit different, and far less humble... but you're a moderator, after all, and so it doesn't matter how right I am... ultimately, if you disagree with me, I'll lose. I don't like those odds... I just think you've got me pegged wrong.

[Nukey Shay]

lol

 

Topic drift goes pretty far in these 5200 threads. Starting to rival the Jaguar forum.

 

(ducks)

[MrRetroGamer]

Let me just point out a few things regarding this thread and myself:

 

1. I don't sell joysticks for $40, not here or on eBay.

2. The ones I do sell, when I have the time to do them get 2 new fire buttons, a new circuit and new Gold Start pad.

3. The ones I sell to Atari Age members with the above treatment are sold for MUCH less, and I've been known to swap several dead controllers for a working one for FREE! (yes FREE, imagine that)

4. The ones I sell are as good as Best Electronics sticks any day of the week, both functionally and cosmetically.

5. My word is my guarantee on the product, and I stand behind both 100%

6. I happen to be good friends with Brad at Best and I order from him quite often!!

 

I'm not here to defend myself, since this thread wasn't even about me. My first post was actually to help the OP. And yes, if one of the other posters in this thread is bragging that they sold a $40 controller with just a new circuit then I'll agree that there is a problem here. But when you generalize and infer that anyone who sells joysticks is a scumbag looking to rape their customers, well, that's just not going to be taken too lightly.

[Paranoid]

Let me just point out a few things regarding this thread and myself:

 

1. I don't sell joysticks for $40, not here or on eBay.

2. The ones I do sell, when I have the time to do them get 2 new fire buttons, a new circuit and new Gold Start pad.

3. The ones I sell to Atari Age members with the above treatment are sold for MUCH less, and I've been known to swap several dead controllers for a working one for FREE! (yes FREE, imagine that)

4. The ones I sell are as good as Best Electronics sticks any day of the week, both functionally and cosmetically.

5. My word is my guarantee on the product, and I stand behind both 100%

6. I happen to be good friends with Brad at Best and I order from him quite often!!

 

I'm not here to defend myself, since this thread wasn't even about me. My first post was actually to help the OP. And yes, if one of the other posters in this thread is bragging that they sold a $40 controller with just a new circuit then I'll agree that there is a problem here. But when you generalize and infer that anyone who sells joysticks is a scumbag looking to rape their customers, well, that's just not going to be taken too lightly.

 

actually, we sold them on e bay for 40 dollars each and they all sold in a week...

 

So... um... Basically you're agreeing with me fully. One of the other posters in this thread bragged that they sold a $40 controller with just a new circuit, and that they sold their entire stock in less than a week. I followed with an editorial opinion piece on how this is bad and how there seem to be a lot of people buzzing around the Retro community trying to cash in like this... and the next thing I knew, you were in here acting as if I had pulled of a glove and slapped you across the face with it. The MOD brought your name into this, and you've NEVER been my point of reference in this issue, nor have your products. If you're assuming the weight of defending yourself against my "accusations" when they're not aimed at you, I can't really stop that or help you.

 

IF I had infered that ANYONE who sold joysticks is a scumback looking to rape their customers, I'd UNDERSTAND it not being taken too lightly. If you *assumed* that this is what I meant, then perhaps you're a little sensitive about this issue for reasons I couldn't possibly know. The only thing that comes to mind is that I once, a while ago, bitched in some thread about the cost of the Flex Circuits and gold dot kits on eBay. I think you contacted me in e-mail and we discussed some alternatives, which was reasonable and I truly appreciated. By the time I compared rebuilding, even with a deal on the kit, to buying a complete new stick from Best Electronics, for me, the difference in price wasn't enough, so I just went with a Best stick. That doesn't mean I thought you were a crook. Going through you *would* have been "cheaper", but for the difference in cost, I decided to pay a bit more for *convienience* and have a stick warranted from top to bottom. After all, if I rebuilt a stick using your kit and my pots went out, you're not going to warrant that, right? Either way, I think you're feeling persecuted when there isn't really anything there. I'm not even sure if you are the same guy I'm thinking of... but it seems like that might be the case, and that is the only reason I can think of to explain how rabidly defensive you've been behaving about this topic.

 

Maybe you should go back, read from the first post, watch how this topic evolved and turned into the heated discussion it is now, and try and have an open mind about just what I was saying. What I was saying is EXACTLY what you just said is a justifiable opinion.

 

I'm actually to the point where I'm feeling a little persecuted and pissed off about this topic myself, and I'm having a little trouble not being purposefully inciteful or mean-spirited in my response (which I am really struggling to keep objective, fair and level headed). It just seems like you came in halfway through Sku and JB defending Darklord and took everything I said and applied it to your own side business and hopped right on your soapbox without actually understanding what I said, and it seems that Sku assumed several things about my attitude in general and extrapolated this entire "You're pissing all over the people in this community who are trying to help" scenario out of me saying that $40 was too much for used joysticks with replacement Flex circuits. So now I find myself defending myself against a respected merchant and a moderator for things I'm *not* even really guilty of.

[Paranoid]

You know, one more thing... if I were just a random person who was reading this thread, from beginning to end, and I comprehended what *I* have said, and saw how *you* came into the thread and what your responses were...

 

Just step outside yourself and imagine the perception of someone from the outside who followed this thread as it *really* developed.

 

I think if I were in that position, I'd be wondering just why this got you so worked up and defensive.

[sku_u]

Listen, your last post, I'm seeing a lot of passion and a loss of patience or temper directed at me, combined with completely misunderstanding where I am coming from and just WHAT I've been doing and saying. If you were just a normal user, my attitude would be quite a bit different, and far less humble... but you're a moderator, after all, and so it doesn't matter how right I am... ultimately, if you disagree with me, I'll lose. I don't like those odds... I just think you've got me pegged wrong.

 

Nope. Not at all. What I'm seeing is a newbie who thinks he knows everything and is acting rather smug and stepping on a lot of toes who does have some good ideas but needs a better grasp on the community. I'm also seeing someone who maybe doesn't know quite how to get his point across since I also came to the conclusion that you think anyone who tries to make money selling joysticks for a profit in this community is a scumbag. I also do not have anything against you. If I didn't like you or if you were getting on my nerves, you would definitely know that as I'm not a beat around the bush kind of guy.