Building a Better Proline

[Paranoid]

So, with 3 out of 4 of my Proline sticks being somewhat erratic to completely dead in certain directions, I finally decided to open them up and have a look and see if there was something I could do about it. Doesn't seem to be. But, I noticed a few things about the design.

 

The first epiphany was that the circuit card is inverted and thus reversed. To wit, when you press right, you're actually pressing UP on the left contact dome, as opposed to a CX40, where you would be putting leveraged pressure *down* on the right contact dome.

 

I'm thinking that this is the first problem with these sticks, and results in the short throw, erratic responsiveness and sloppy feeling of the CX78 compared to the CX40. If you could only rellocate the contact domes BENEATH the joystick in a "proper" orientation (pushing up presses the TOP contact dome, not the bottom one), you would be taking a big step toward a stick that behaved more like the CX40.

 

I'm not sure what would be easier, modifying a CX40 stick to have the extra fire button or modifying a Proline to change the location of the contact domes.

 

Another thing I noticed. There are two resistors and some other component (maybe just a bridge of some sort) on the Proline. Why are these necessary on the Prolines, but not on the CX40, yet both sticks work fine with the 7800 console?

 

It is also really clear looking at a CX40 stick which trace and wire is ground, but the 7800 is a lot more confusing, with traces seeming to run everywhere, somewhat at random.

 

I'm also wondering how you get the stick apart from the "mushroom cap" plastic top to actually be able to remove the guts of the thing. Does the shaft screw into the handle, or is there some trick to removing it without busting it completely?

 

Is adding a second button to a CX40 joystick really just a matter of hooking up the correct wires from a Proline cable to another button on a stock CX40 stick? Or does the addition of that second button cause some fundamental change in the resistance that requires the additional resistors?

 

Finally... does anyone know how easy it would be to modify the controller from a FB1 to work on an actual 7800? Even if they're not stock pin compatable, it seems like they are probably constructed much the same way and it would simply be a matter of running a 7800 cable to the right terminals on the FB1 controller circuit card. I know the Flashback 1 didn't have actual 7800 sticks, but how different *are* they internally? Has anyone here opened one up?

 

Just curious... I'm thinking I'm going to have to build something of my own, and if I'm going to put the effort into it, I might as well figure out how to do it right.

[tta583]

Check this out as a good alternative to the ProLine:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72198

 

I just built one, man its great. It would be a lot easier than moving around the internals of the existing stick. You get nice positive micro-switched directions, its self centering, good for the lefty or righty, and 2 buttons. I ended up using a Sega Genesis cable from a standard 3 button controller. I was able to get several of the controllers for (literally) a couple bucks each. They have all 9 pins wired but the colors are different. I mapped them and made a post in the above thread. The only downside to the cable (for me) was that they are a little funky to strip back as the conductor is sort of soft and flimsy. It took some practice to strip the ends without ripping out the strands.

 

I found this type of wire strippers to work the best for me:

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item..._STRIPPER_.html

You can adjust the stop in the handle down to the specifics of the wire. You can get them at most any home improvement store.

 

As to the resistors, well I had a similar question. I wanted to know how it worked instead of simply duplicating the circuit. That discussion is here:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84963

 

In a nut shell the 7800, in 7800 mode, uses feedback from the buttons up the 2 paddle controller pins to sense a fire button. The resistors keep from shunting the fire button positive (orange wire I think, but don't hold me to that!!) straight to ground. In 2600 mode the 7800 will open the console side of the paddle pins so that the fire buttons go to ground, via the resistor(s)......at least as I understand!!!

 

Brent

[sku_u]

Why not just use them for parts, pick up a NES keypad and modify it to work on a 7800? I have a couple and they work better than the proline or the Atari joypads.

[jaybird3rd]

Finally... does anyone know how easy it would be to modify the controller from a FB1 to work on an actual 7800? Even if they're not stock pin compatable, it seems like they are probably constructed much the same way and it would simply be a matter of running a 7800 cable to the right terminals on the FB1 controller circuit card. I know the Flashback 1 didn't have actual 7800 sticks, but how different *are* they internally? Has anyone here opened one up?

The FB1 is an NES-compatible system in disguise, and as such, the controllers are in reality NES controllers (and very different internally from the original ProLines). Retrofitting them for the original 7800 would be a lot of work: getting a new cable (the FB1 cables do not give you all the pins you'll need), finding and cutting the right traces, and soldering in the new cable in the correct places.

 

It would actually be less work to rebuild a Space Invaders controller as tta583 suggests, and you'll get a much better joystick. I posted some step-by-step instructions on how to do it here, and I also offer to perform the modification for those AtariAge members who can't or don't want to.

[Paranoid]

Hmnnn... wow... this is food for thought.

 

I don't have one of the Radica space invaders sticks, and I did see that post in the past and have been keeping my eyes open for one every time I hit Walmart or Target or anything like that.

 

I *do* have the Namco Ms. Pac Man deal, and I don't use it because I've also got the wireless one (and now, a MAME cabinet, so, it has really become a redundant gadget for me). I saw someone else in the thread talking about using that as the base.

 

So... I got this "><" much of the transistor explaination up there. I understand it this far. The fire buttons work differently in 7800 mode than in 2600 mode, and without the 650 ohm resistor, either something is going to be senses as always open or always closed. More or less, without the transistors, it isn't going to work right in at least one mode. Right?

 

Now to decide if I want to do try doing it myself and risk ruining a stick or worse, a console... or if I want to just take the easy way out and have Jay do it for me. Jay, I'm going to PM you.

[sku_u]

Hmnnn... wow... this is food for thought.

 

I don't have one of the Radica space invaders sticks, and I did see that post in the past and have been keeping my eyes open for one every time I hit Walmart or Target or anything like that.

 

 

Toys R Us carries it. AFAIK Target and Walmart don't. I'm not sure what other stores might have that controller, but in all honesty, it's pretty cheaply made. You could do something a lot better with HAPP arcade parts, though you'd be spending a great deal more.

[Paranoid]

Well, I've actually got a bunch of arcade controls just lying around in the garage waiting to either become part of a MAME cabinet or converted into some kind of Atari stick.

 

The beauty of a CX40 or a typical arcade cab control panel is the simplicity. One common ground, straight connections... you don't have to understand a LOT about a circuit to get it right.

 

Reading the technical discussion of the 7800 sticks was a bit overwhelming, and made me wonder if I might not be better off having someone else do this for me. The problem with using a true arcade stick and components is building a case for them. If you really crammed it in there, you could possibly have something a little smaller than the X-arcade solo stick. I like the idea of converting the Jakks Ms. Pac Man stick for that reason, it is a nice handheld unit about the size and feel of a CX40 type stick.

[Lord Helmet]

The Radica SI 7800 mod is a great alternative to the proline, sepecially if you want to use a joystick instead of a gamepad. If gamepads are more your thing, mod an NES pad, or just use the Atari 7800 Euro pads

[Paranoid]

I finished my RSI 7800 stick today, and it is working great. I really like it. A little bulky, but much better than a Proline stick. I think the Jakks Ms. Pac Man would be an ideal candidate for this conversion too, just because the form factor on that stick is so much closer to a CX40 style stick. The only disadvantage there is that the Jakks stick is a right-hand only model.

[shadow460]

I actually shimmed up the plastic ring inside one of my Pro Lines. It's got about 1/8 inch of cardboard shoved in there and molded around the white plastic ring that presses on the contacts.

 

It's not loose anymore--rather it's about right. It feels different than the CX-40B that I have (which has something falling around inside), but it's got decent response.

 

I still go after the 40B when I can, but the modded Pro Line works great for my 7800 games. In fact, I just got done with about half an hour of Jinks and Tank Command, and I feel no pain whatsoever. I had no difficulty steering the tanks, either--point and shoot, point and shoot.

[+Atarius Maximus]

I'm not sure what would be easier, modifying a CX40 stick to have the extra fire button or modifying a Proline to change the location of the contact domes.

 

I don't know if it would be easier or not, but I did a 3 button CX40 mod back in 2002 that I posted about here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...074&hl=cx40+mod

 

The links don't work anymore that showed all of the pictures (my old website that I hosted them on is long gone), but there's a description in the thread on how I did it. I could probably dig up the old pictures if you're interested. It works pretty well, I added 2 microswitches from Radio Shack to the back of the CX40 for the left/right buttons on the ProLine.

 

Steve

[+Atarius Maximus]

I just looked around at my old website files and found the images, including the wiring diagram.

[Paranoid]

Nice. At the very least, I really appreciate the schematics. It helped me understand how the fire button circuit works and made me see that I was missing the red and yellow leads from the cable in the schematic I drew up for a Jakks conversion.

[+Atarius Maximus]

Nice. At the very least, I really appreciate the schematics. It helped me understand how the fire button circuit works and made me see that I was missing the red and yellow leads from the cable in the schematic I drew up for a Jakks conversion.

 

Cool, I'm glad I could be of some help. It's been quite some time since I've pulled out the 7800, I just saw your thread and it made me think about this mod I did years ago. It's been too long... I think it's time for a quick game of One on One!

 

Steve

[Paranoid]

I've actually finished the Jakks conversion, and your post absolutely made me catch something I had missed, so thanks. The Jakks Ms. Pac Man conversion works like a champ, too, by the way. I've posted about it in the other 7800 stick thread... and I'll post my schematics, notes and pictures soon.