Was the 5200 considered a success?

[godzillajoe]

I thought at one point I had read somewhere that the 5200 started slow but by the end outsold ColecoVision, which I guess was the "competition" at the time.

 

That doesn't sound too shabby if true.

 

But aside from an uncle of mine who was an electronics nut (he bought everything new, he was the first to buy a VCR, camcorder, laesr disc player etc.) no one I knew owned one or really talked about it

 

Since I have working controllers now, I've been playing it a lot and it's really not a bad follow up to the 2600 despite the maddening controllers

 

I think if Atari gave away something like Pac-Man or Galaxian with the systems it would have sold tons more of them

 

Or even Star Raiders, here you have new controllers with keypads, why not pack in a game that uses them?

 

Super Breakout was pretty boring for a "second generation" console

[Gabriel]

No. Not really.

 

Atari threw the 5200 to the wolves with it's Super Breakout pack in against the Colecovision. From a consumer point of view, they never really got behind it. As parents were fond of saying "You can get all it's games on the 2600, so why bother?" And, Atari gave priority to the 2600 when they should have been making 5200 games.

 

Somewhere on the web there's an interview with the man who programmed Super Pac Man. It's an amazing conversion. But he tells how he was pretty much left alone when programming it and that no one at the company really cared about the development of the game. You're kind of left thinking about how amazing most of the games for the system are, and left wondering how many other programmers were just left alone because the executives didn't have any intention of supporting the console.

 

Many of us know that the original plan was to release a 10 bit game system (Video System X) instead of the 8 bit 5200. The 5200 came about because of programmers complaining about programming for the 10 bit system. In the end, the 5200 became what it was, not because of planning, but because the Atari 400 chipset could be converted quickly to compete with the Colecovision. Programmers were apparrently not well thought of at Atari, and the appropriation of the Atari 400 as a game system stepped on the computer division's toes a bit. Reading between the lines, it's hard to imagine that the 5200 wasn't the subject of intense interdepartmental rivalry and sabotage.

 

(In fact, the 400 had initially been conceived as a game system, but that same departmental rivalry had kept that from occurring.)

 

Atari was also dead set on running itself into the ground at this point. By focusing on the 2600 and ignoring the future they had introduced in the form of the 5200, they were practically admitting they viewed video games as a fad that they were trying to milk the last drops of cash from.

 

As for 5200 sales outstripping the Colecovision's as time went on, I can definitely believe that. The Colecovision was strong against the 5200's pathetic launch, but relatively rested on it's laurels. Atari caught up with some spectacular games. And then... nothing.

 

In the end, it was rendered a moot point because Tramiel was dead set on killing all videogames at the company. Even if he hadn't, Atari had already shown their utter lack of faith in the 5200 by way of the 7800 console.

[Gabriel]

Super Breakout was pretty boring for a "second generation" console

 

I've always wondered at the logic behind Super Breakout for the Atari 5200. I mean, I've wondered about why it exists at all, much less as a pack in.

 

Someone here at AtariAge suggested that perhaps it wasn't originally programmed to be released, but was created as a test program by someone trying their hand at the console. The problem was that Atari Marketing of the time were allegedly REALLY full of themselves and thought they could sell whatever random crap they threw out as long as it said ATARI on the label. Plus, the 5200 needed launch titles. The kiddies would take what was offerred and love it. So, Super Breakout became a cartridge. After all, why lose sales of a big name game by including it as a pack in?

 

That explanation makes sense to me. Whether it's true or not, I have no idea.

[godzillajoe]

What's funny is the 2600 version is so much better, maybe it's just the paddles and the crazy sound effects that you can change.

 

With the 5200 it just seems odd and plays rather poorly. It would be like shipping Tetris with the Wii, a decent enough game but not exactly new and not something that shows off your new system's bells and whistles.

[Paranoid]

See, I've always liked the 5200 version better. I think the analog joysticks, when in good condition, give much more precise control than the 2600 paddles, and I like the enhanced graphics of the 5200 version. I was never able to become very good at the 2600 version, but at one point I *owned* the 5200 version (once I burned out on Countermeasure and had nothing else to play). I'll admit that it being the pack-in was a total WTF at the time (which is why I bought Countermeasure as well, which probably WAS their plan). Countermeasure may be something like Raiders of the Lost Ark for the 2600... it isn't so much a BAD game as misunderstood. Who wanted to play a ball and paddle game from the early 70s on an 80s era console during the reign of the platform climber?

 

Although arguably, we now live in the era of no pack-in game whatsoever... Maybe the 5200 should have been the first to pioneer THAT paradigm. A base console system and a bundled package, and let the consumer decide.

Edited August 23, 2006 by Paranoid

[graywest]

I was thinking about the logic behind the "Super Breakout As Pack-In" decision lately. I imagine that it was done to have a title that would showcase most of the 5200's novel features - namely the analog joysticks, and the four player capabilities. Also, it makes (minimal) use of the keypad, and was probably a pretty easy programming task that could be readied quickly for the 5200 launch.

 

Not a great decision obviously, but there was some logic behind it.

[Paranoid]

Good points.

[jetset]

Still though...had Atari included PacMan, Defender or Centipede as the pack-in it would have easily outsold the CV and would have been an instant success rather than a late bloomer. Hell, even Space Invaders or Galaxian or Missile Command would have made a huge difference.

[jbanes]

Still though...had Atari included PacMan, Defender or Centipede as the pack-in it would have easily outsold the CV and would have been an instant success rather than a late bloomer.

The 5200 I have had PacMan as the pack-in game. So Atari did eventually figure this out. Defender would have been a poor pack-in due to the difficulty of the game, though Centipede would have been okay.

[jetset]

Still though...had Atari included PacMan, Defender or Centipede as the pack-in it would have easily outsold the CV and would have been an instant success rather than a late bloomer.

The 5200 I have had PacMan as the pack-in game. So Atari did eventually figure this out. Defender would have been a poor pack-in due to the difficulty of the game, though Centipede would have been okay.

 

True Defender might not have been the best choice because of the difficulty. But as to spot on arcade conversion it blows the crappy CV version of Donkey Kong away, which was the 5200's competition at the time. Centipede probably would have been a much better pack-in as it appealed to women as well. And yes Atari eventually included PacMan which is probablly part of why it bloomed later in its run. Too bad they hadn't done that to begin with.

[Henry Lee]

Super Breakout was indeed not a great choice compared to the available titlse at that time, as graywest says it is a logical choice, it shows the 5200 features.

 

I read discussions about the 5200's launch title Super Breakout many times, I would like to say there are many attractions when a system comes to the market, and the launch title is one of them. The Atari 5200 had many attractions for a buyer to consider. And usually when buying a system, you expect to have more titles in the future and at Atari 5200's release in 1982, we were confident that Atari with its 2600 in hand would release titles! My father bought the Atari 5200 the future in mind, the system was new, attractive and versatile and would eventually have more titles.

 

Coming to Super Breakout, It was our only title for a couple of months, we played it god knows how many hour. I think it would of made such a diffrence if it was Pac-man or Centipede

[JB]

What's funny is the 2600 version is so much better, maybe it's just the paddles and the crazy sound effects that you can change.

 

With the 5200 it just seems odd and plays rather poorly. It would be like shipping Tetris with the Wii, a decent enough game but not exactly new and not something that shows off your new system's bells and whistles.

I like the 2600 version better too. Aside from the sound, the 2600's solid walls LOOK better.

 

The 5200's bips and discrete blocks may be "arcade-authentic", but the 2600 version was just BETTER.

 

Control-wise, it's a toss-up. I'm partial to the paddles, but the stick works quite nicely too.

...

A bootless stick does, anyways. I haven't tried, but I think one with a good boot might make precision a bit harder.

[Paranoid]

Honestly, my bias is large. I dislike all of the paddle and block era games from the early Atari library, except maybe Circus Atari, which is decent and engaging. Pong, Video Olympics, all of those titles were just not interesting to me. Super Break Out 5200 has more engaging graphics (as if this were possible) and the gameplay seemed less frustrating.

 

Again, though, I only played it because the only other thing I had was Countermeasure, and I had played that into the ground, and there just weren't any other release titles available yet. But the odd thing is, as my library grew (Miner 2049'er, Montezuma's Revenge, etc)... I still would go back occasionally to Super Break Out... I simply *never* owned titles like this for the 2600, other than the Supercharger take on block, ball and paddle games... I enjoyed that one, too.

 

Later on, when arcade titles like Arkanoid first came out, I could never figure out what the allure of these games is, no matter how many special bonuses you add to the game.

Edited August 24, 2006 by Paranoid

[Henry Lee]

Another logic that we tend to forget for including Super Breakout as a launch titles is that home video gaming was at that time family oriented compared to today.

[Paranoid]

You might have a pretty good point there, Henry. Pong type games have always had a broader appeal than more involved games. It just seems like it was easier for pre-video revolution generations to wrap their minds around Pong or Breakout than, for example, Pitfall or Demon Attack. It is also probably the first game that didn't have a strong gender preference bias. A nice, non-offensive, middle of the road title.

[Video]

I was one of the late persons that got the 5200 Pac Man Pack in, and I was actually hard pressed to find a copy of Breakout. For a game that was packed in and so "sucky" a lot of people sure held onto it, and around here it wasn't available as a stand alone cart. It wasn't for a year that I actually got a copy.

 

And it's a great game. Pac/Man would have preobably been a better pack in, but by the time, Pack man was done to death. Breakout was too, but it was still fun to me, and it's great for multiplayered games.

[doctorclu]

 

True Defender might not have been the best choice because of the difficulty. But as to spot on arcade conversion it blows the crappy CV version of Donkey Kong away, which was the 5200's competition at the time. Centipede probably would have been a much better pack-in as it appealed to women as well. And yes Atari eventually included PacMan which is probablly part of why it bloomed later in its run. Too bad they hadn't done that to begin with.

 

I liked and was very impressed with Donkey Kong at the time it was released on the Coleco Vision. I sold my 2600 to buy one... then I saw my friend had an Atari 800 and was able to pirate games and he said he could give me copies. And history was changed at that point.

 

I could have been a Coleco Vision gamer and then a Commodore fan. Or Coleco Vision, then Nintendo, and a PC format gamer. But I saw the 800 and it was all over. But had it not been for the Coleco and Donkey Kong (and Venture) I might have stayed with the 2600 a bit longer.

 

Mine came with Pac-Man. The one I inherited from my brother in law. I am JUST AS OF TONIGHT looking into collecting the 5200. Till now, and still kinda now, I think the 5200 was a effort in futility. Especially with the 2600 and 400/800 already being out.

Edited September 9, 2006 by doctorclu

[SteveW]

There weren't a lot of launch titles for Atari to select from for a pack-in. Super Breakout definitely shouldn't have been a pack-in, but which games out of the launch titles would have been good? Which ones would have had 'family appeal'? I think Space Invaders, even though it was a little old (not as old as Breakout, of course) might have been better.

 

What Atari should have done was gotten a bunch of programmers to work on launch titles designed to show off the 5200's strengths instead of converting a bunch of Atari 400 titles over. A console needs a good launch title to make it stand out. A perfect example would be the NES. Do you really think it would have taken off like it did if instead of Super Mario Bros., it instead had Clu-Clu Land as a pack-in instead? The game that comes with a console should show off a console's future potential. Donkey Kong did for the Colecovision, Minestorm did for the Vectrex, SMB did for the NES, but Super Breakout made the 5200 look outdated.

[doctorclu]

The game that comes with a console should show off a console's future potential. Donkey Kong did for the Colecovision, Minestorm did for the Vectrex, SMB did for the NES, but Super Breakout made the 5200 look outdated.

 

Yeh like Cybermorph for the Jaguar (shudders...)

 

Was Stunnrunner the pack in for the Lynx? If so, good choice. And Combat with the 2600.. another good choice. Combat was a blast.

 

Sooo... yeh, the 5200... I hate to keep harping on this, but really, how hard could it be? Just have Atari go to the 400/800 titles and source code, (dozens and dozens of good games) and say "Ok, let's change the controller codes on THIS one" I mean really, how hard is that?

 

I know Star Raiders was out by then, but as I've seen with Cybermorph, a cockpit game, even Star Raiders, would not have been good enough. You need a game you can play alone OR with friends.

 

Let's see, Joust.. my 8-bit cartridge says 1983. and the 5200 was released in 1982. Ok, I know there was something that Atari had on the 8-bits in cart form that would have easily been better than breakout, though truthfully I liked Breakout on the 800.

[shadow460]

IIRC, Lynx's pack in was California Games.

Also IIRC, the NES didn't have a pack in title at first.

[JB]

IIRC, Lynx's pack in was California Games.

Also IIRC, the NES didn't have a pack in title at first.

At US launch, the NES was available with Mario, Duck Hunt, and Gyromite packed in.

I'm not sure if the familiar Mario/Duck Hunt and gameless versions were available at launch.

[Brian R.]

I'm thinking that back when the 5200 was released, the idea of the "pack-in game" wasn't necessarily to include a game that would show the ability of the system, but to include a cheap game so that the buyer had something to play, and to add some kind of "value" to the purchase. Atari would then want you to pay to buy more cartridges.

 

Most systems sold today don't even come with a pack-in. As I recall, earlier systems came with things like two controllers, while today you only get one. It's all to keep the price on the system down, but then make money on people having to buy all the accessories.

[SteveW]

IIRC, Lynx's pack in was California Games.

Also IIRC, the NES didn't have a pack in title at first.

At US launch, the NES was available with Mario, Duck Hunt, and Gyromite packed in.

I'm not sure if the familiar Mario/Duck Hunt and gameless versions were available at launch.

I bought my NES around late summer of 1986, I'd guess not too long after it was introduced, and my low end bundle came with SMB and Duck Hunt on separate carts. I don't recall seeing an NES bundle without a pack-in game.

[jpfalcon2003]

Definitely not. Games had great graphics. Awful cheap made controllers foiled this system.

[Brian R.]

Is it cheaply made, or more a function of cheaply designed? I'd say the later.