someguy Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 quoteMICROSOFT completely destroyed Madden with its first football attempt thanks to NFL FEVER 2002. O-o-kay. Most folks seem to disagree with you, but I suppose it's all just a matter of taste. quoteProject Gotham upped the bar for all future racing games thanks to its fun gameplay and photorealistic graphics, PG is decent - but I don't think it's much better than Gran Turismo 3. quoteHALO is simply the game of the decade...no denying that. Oh brother. HALO is a good shooter, maybe even a great shooter, possibly even the "game of the year". But the best game of the last ten years? No. quoteOddworld showed that adventure and puzzles can be fun if done correctly, and the list goes on and on. Oddworld bites, plain and simple. It's just not that interesting of a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 There's a fine line between patriotism and jingoism, and I think some people here have crossed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted April 17, 2002 Author Share Posted April 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Gunstar: I think the Japanes games are the same old crap (how many Mario and Pokemon games are they going to make for God's sake?!?!?), The Japanese, as far as I'm concerned are the masters of cloning and have no originality at all!... No clones in the west though... NHL 93 NHL 94 NHL 95 NHL 96 NHL 97 NHL 98 NHL 99 NHL 2000 NHL 2001 NHL 2002 Madden 93 Madden 94 Madden 95 Madden 96 Madden 97 Madden 98 Madden 99 Madden 2000 Madden 2001 Madden 2002 Fifa Soccer Fifa 97 Fifa 98 Fifa 99 Fifa 2000 Fifa 2001 Fifa 2002 NBA Live 95 NBA Live 96 NBA Live 97 NBA Live 98 NBA Live 99 ETC Tiger Woods 98 Tiger Woods 99 Tiger Woods 2000 Tiger Woods 2001 Nascar 98 Nascar 99 Nascar 2000 Nascar 2001 ETC NFL QB Club 96 NFL QB Club 97 NFL QB Club 98 NFL QB Club 99 NFL QB Club 2000 NFL QB Club 2001 ...ad nauseum Wolfenstein 3d Doom Doom II Heretic Hexen Rise of the Triad Quake Quake 2 Half Life Quake 3 Return to Castle Wolfenstein Medal of Honour Rainbow Six Rogue Spear Halo My point is not to say that there is no truth to what Gunstar stated, it is just that "borrowing" and a general lack of originality can be found on all sides of the globe. I like good games. Period. I don't care where they come from... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid_sky Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 RISE OF THE TRIAD!!!!!!!! I love that game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Adrian M: Mediocrity?? I'd have to argue that even the XBOX LAUNCH games were among some of the BEST ever. MICROSOFT completely destroyed Madden with its first football attempt thanks to NFL FEVER 2002. Project Gotham upped the bar for all future racing games thanks to its fun gameplay and photorealistic graphics, HALO is simply the game of the decade...no denying that. Oddworld showed that adventure and puzzles can be fun if done correctly, and the list goes on and on. And since the launch titles, we've been treated to awesome titles like Rallisport Challenge, Wreckless, and so much more! If anything, the GAMECUBE and PS2 are suffering from mediocrity with either a severe lack of titles or too many me-too games. I agree 100%! It was a God-send to finally see these high quality AMERICAN titles, I feel exactly the opposite of you Japanese game lovers, I think the Japanes games are the same old crap (how many Mario and Pokemon games are they going to make for God's sake?!?!?), The Japanese, as far as I'm concerned are the masters of cloning and have no originality at all!...And when they do, it turns out to be crap like Rappapa the rapper or Space chanel 5...God is that crap! Halo is a Masterpiece, Progect Gotham too, I love Circus Maximus and Max Payne...the list goes on and on as more great titles come out for the XBOX. I love my DC too, but half the titles are more Japanese crap as far as I'm concerned...at least half are good though...thank God. The Lamecube has one title that interest me, Rogue Leader. The PS2, Grand theft auto 3, certainly not enough to buy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian M Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Gunstar: I agree 100%! It was a God-send to finally see these high quality AMERICAN titles, I feel exactly the opposite of you Japanese game lovers, I think the Japanes games are the same old crap (how many Mario and Pokemon games are they going to make for God's sake?!?!?), The Japanese, as far as I'm concerned are the masters of cloning and have no originality at all!...And when they do, it turns out to be crap like Rappapa the rapper or Space chanel 5...God is that crap! Halo is a Masterpiece, Progect Gotham too, I love Circus Maximus and Max Payne...the list goes on and on as more great titles come out for the XBOX. I love my DC too, but half the titles are more Japanese crap as far as I'm concerned...at least half are good though...thank God. The Lamecube has one title that interest me, Rogue Leader. The PS2, Grand theft auto 3, certainly not enough to buy it! It sure is good to know that there are other gamers out there who understand great gaming. Gunstar, I honor you with the honorary title of "Gaming Scientist". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skatepunk60 Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Gunstar: make that three of us, me, you and Alex...so far, I hate Anime too and final fantasy! Balders gate, Might&magic, Ultima, etc. those are for me. I also hate most things cute&cuddly with big stupid eyes and little button noses, i.e. Pokemon and Mario and similiar ilk. I do like most Jap mech games though, like Gungriffon and Gundam 0079, etc. those are part of the "few" Japanes games I like...of course I still prefer the German made Iron Soldier games on the Jag/Psx/NUON!!! Yes!! Preach it brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liveinabin Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 hehe, nice one, Lost Monkey - funny. How can anyone say that original games come from the west though? hardly any original games have originated outside Japan since the videogame crash. Western gamers are happy to buy driving, fighting, fps and sports games so thats all they get. I've wanted to get into the industry side of gaming for a while but I can't find anyone in this country who has any imagination. Theres very little artistic style in western games - it's just a constant push for 'realism' in games which, until it's totally acheivable, just looks naff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 I'm not sure where some of you guys are getting this argument that "XBox will beat GameCube eventually". Back in November the XBox came out swinging and outsold the GCN right away ... for about 2 months. Since January, the XBox has lost a lot of its initial momentum and now the GCN is outselling it, despite the fact that the big ticket games like Starfox, Mario, and Zelda aren't even close to being sold in stores. What's going to happen to XBox in the fall when Starfox and Mario *are* available? If you take a look at the XBox, there aren't any equivalent "big name" games coming out; anyone who wanted HALO now has it, and frankly none of the other XBox games seem to be that much different from games available on the PS2 or GCN. I think that XBox had one chance to blow away the GCN, and it's gone. Unless Microsoft can come up with another "killer app" game like HALO, the XBox will be another "also ran". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel D. Park Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Atariken64: lets not forget that for me turn based rpg's are the greatest genre of all time! Turn Based RPG's = Heaven Man, the old style Might and Magic games are some of my most Favorite games ever. I also got a huge kick out of the Gold Box, Forgotten Realms series on the Commodore 64. Let us not forget Bard's Tale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 The one problem with your list is all those sports games...EVERY country, US, JAPAN, ENGLAND, etc., etc. come out with the latest sports games every year because the TEAMS change every year and the sport-game consumers seem to want to play with the latest teams, so even though in a way they are clones, there is a purpose (although I wouldn't care if they dropped all the NFL,NHL,NBA and MLB licenses and just went back to red team vs. blue team like years ago before licensing), and I just can't see putting those games into the "clone" catagory because it is a legitimate purpose for them coming out with the games with the latest rosters every year. So as far as I'm concerned, just the bottom that includes the FPS games is valid. But that really wasn't my point anyway, the fact is, like you said, that no matter where a game is developed, if it's a hit or a great idea, it's going to get cloned over and over again, hopefully with some natural evolution in the genre. I hated the Japanese ANIME and cutesy style graphics to begin with, so as long as they keep using that same old tired style of cartooning, along with the WEIRD cultural phenomenon (very alien to me, I like my culture and that of my ancesters from across the atlantic just like the Japanese like their culture and that of their ancestors), I'll never like the majority of what they put out. Not to mention their entire belief and moral structure is reflected in the games (even if you have to read between the lines), just like is true with my culture, and I disagree with their beliefs and morals and refuse to have them crammed down my throat through their entertainment media. I'm sure they feel the same way, which is why I said that that was fine and live and let live in my original post. As far as others here suggesting that patriotism and biggotry is involved, you don't have a clue, I'm talking about games and entertainment, not hating different ethnic groups of people. I could care less what color you are, if you like what I like and believe what I believe, fine, we'll get along, if not, regardless of race or gender, I won't like you, which is also totally different form HATING you...live and let live, just don't try to cram your beliefs and morals down my throat, I don't do it to you. I just state my opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian M Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Gunstar: The one problem with your list is all those sports games...EVERY country, US, JAPAN, ENGLAND, etc., etc. come out with the latest sports games every year because the TEAMS change every year and the sport-game consumers seem to want to play with the latest teams, so even though in a way they are clones, there is a purpose (although I wouldn't care if they dropped all the NFL,NHL,NBA and MLB licenses and just went back to red team vs. blue team like years ago before licensing), and I just can't see putting those games into the "clone" catagory because it is a legitimate purpose for them coming out with the games with the latest rosters every year. So as far as I'm concerned, just the bottom that includes the FPS games is valid. But that really wasn't my point anyway, the fact is, like you said, that no matter where a game is developed, if it's a hit or a great idea, it's going to get cloned over and over again, hopefully with some natural evolution in the genre. I hated the Japanese ANIME and cutesy style graphics to begin with, so as long as they keep using that same old tired style of cartooning, along with the WEIRD cultural phenomenon (very alien to me, I like my culture and that of my ancesters from across the atlantic just like the Japanese like their culture and that of their ancestors), I'll never like the majority of what they put out. Not to mention their entire belief and moral structure is reflected in the games (even if you have to read between the lines), just like is true with my culture, and I disagree with their beliefs and morals and refuse to have them crammed down my throat through their entertainment media. I'm sure they feel the same way, which is why I said that that was fine and live and let live in my original post. As far as others here suggesting that patriotism and biggotry is involved, you don't have a clue, I'm talking about games and entertainment, not hating different ethnic groups of people. I could care less what color you are, if you like what I like and believe what I believe, fine, we'll get along, if not, regardless of race or gender, I won't like you, which is also totally different form HATING you...live and let live, just don't try to cram your beliefs and morals down my throat, I don't do it to you. I just state my opinions. Well said. You are definitely "Gaming Scientist" material. You hold great promise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 You know, I never saw the difference in Japanese and american style games as being anything pronounced. I like games from both sides of the pacific and the atlantic as well (Rare does good stuff). Weird games like Pikmin are cool. Puzzle games effectively started in Russia with Tetris. And everyone who doesn't like console RPGs need to realize that Dragonstomper was a western game. I mean, shoot, how can you hate the Japanese games when they are the only ones who seem to do anything different. So they make clones. So do we. Platformers, arguably, are all clones of Pitfall. But the difference is how its presented, and the intracies in them that make them different. Same with every other damn genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian M Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by ubersaurus: You know, I never saw the difference in Japanese and american style games as being anything pronounced. I like games from both sides of the pacific and the atlantic as well (Rare does good stuff). Weird games like Pikmin are cool. Puzzle games effectively started in Russia with Tetris. And everyone who doesn't like console RPGs need to realize that Dragonstomper was a western game. I mean, shoot, how can you hate the Japanese games when they are the only ones who seem to do anything different. So they make clones. So do we. Platformers, arguably, are all clones of Pitfall. But the difference is how its presented, and the intracies in them that make them different. Same with every other damn genre. There is a huge difference between an American and Japanese game. Ever seen the Oddworld series? It's one of those puzzle games that stars "fantasy" type creatures, yet it doesn't have that bizarre anime look or storyline that many children seem to adore these days. And RPG's have seriously taken a step back thanks to our "friends" in Japan. It's either a "walk and fight endless battles" affair or one of those overdone productions like any of the recent Final Fantasy games. BORING! The Diablo and Baldur's Gate series has tons of fighting but yet seems realistic and fresh and you actually WANT to endure the length of the game because it somehow has this lasting appeal that draws the player in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malix Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 The funny thing about Lost Monkey's list is that there is hardly a bad game on the list. They are all fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted April 18, 2002 Author Share Posted April 18, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Malix: The funny thing about Lost Monkey's list is that there is hardly a bad game on the list. They are all fun. I agree... there are many great clones on there but that isn't the point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 > Ever seen the Oddworld series? Unfortunately, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Diablo=boring dude. It's like, you know that one ice spell, you win. Period. Oddworld is a load of crappy ass crap. Let's see, I don't like sports games. I don't like racing games a whole lot. So Xbox has Halo, and like hell I'm paying 300 bucks to play one game, regardless of how "good" it is. That's all there is to it. And some of us happen to like japanese style artwork. And since my opinon is mine, and I am myself, therefore mine must be the only one that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liveinabin Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Oh my GOD!!! Much as I'm loathe to post anything about the Xbox (for obvious reasons), you have to hear this:- In the UK, Microsoft have just sheared £100 off the price of an Xbox, not only that, but to stop existing buyers kicking off, they're giving 2 games and a controller to everyone who bought an Xbox before April 26th!! Good god, they were losing money on the hardware already, this is utter desperation! I don't know what they're gonna do if this fails. Sony still own their market share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liveinabin Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 [ 04-18-2002: Message edited by: liveinabin ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atarinvader Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Fair play is what I say. MS don't go into a market place to lose, they'll plough as much money into this as they need and WILL come out smelling of roses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariman Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 well, personally, I think that we should be sending new games to Japan from the only decent American video game company that we've ever had... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liveinabin Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 hey, don't forget Activision I just heard another report about this price drop on the BBC finance news - yeah, they're in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Yeah I agree MS will keep pumping money into this for a year or two anyways... I dont think in the end the XBOX will come out smelling like a rose tho. I forsee an early demise of the console and alot of whining from Adrian in the future. Still once they drop the price to $199 here... I will probably pick one up just to get the FEW titles that do seem decent.... (No Oddworlds not one of them!!!! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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