Is a 5200 worth it to a 7800 owner?

[Atarifever]

Hey, I have a 7800 that I play a lot of arcade ports on. It also, of course, doubles as my 2600, which I also play a lot of arcade ports on. Also, I'm from Canada, and we don't get a whole lot of 5200s in the wild up here (I've never seen one in my province at all), so buying one requires at least paying whatever the going rate is on ebay plus shipping. Anyway, with that in mind, is there any good reason for me to go through the trouble of finding a 5200 and working controllers? Is there any exclusive stuff that would make it worthwhile to own (specifically any arcade games). Also, how's Adventure 2? I like Adventure enough to make it a big selling point if it's pretty good. Thanks.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Atarifever

[Paranoid]

It is worth having, and Adventure 2 is looking to be an incredible game.

 

With that said, it might be easier for you to find yourself an Atari 800 XL locally. Almost EVERY title available for the 5200 is available for the 8 bit (with the exception of homebrew 5200 titles like Adventure 2), and, you might find that if you're not familiar with the 5200 joystick, the 8 bit stick will be more enjoyable for you to use. Most of the games are exactly the same, those that aren't are generally functionally identical, because the 5200 *is* an 8 bit Atari computer inside.

 

I *love* the 5200. It is my favorite console. But, for practical reasons, I have an Atari 8-bit, and I probably play on it more often.

[Brian R.]

Well, I have a 5200, as well as a 2600 and 7800. It was the last Atari console I needed and found "in the wild." I love the big black beast. For some reason my favorite game to play on it is old, simple Pac-Man.

 

That being said, while my gut says, "Hell yes, get one!," you pointed out the practical limitations and problems to getting one - cost, and the controllers.

 

I was fortunate in being able to grab a good working Wico controller with a Y adaptor. I even invested in a rebuilt regular controller, which is needed for the function buttons. But even that is flakey sometimes. And if it goes, unless I pay for another, then I'm screwed.

 

There are a few other 5200 titles I like to play - Astro Chase, Space Invaders. But there are some, like Ms. Pac-Man, that are simply better on the 7800.

 

While an 800XL or similar (XE Game System?) may give you access to many of the same games, it won't help you with 5200 homebrews, such as Koffi Yellow Kopter, which I have and believe is a superb game.

 

If the opportunity presents itself and the price is right, I say go for it.

[Paranoid]

I agree... even that Ms. Pac-Man is a rare title that is superior on the 7800. (I think most titles, graphics are better, but gameplay suffers, ono the 7800).

 

You know, you should be able to pick up used 5200 sticks for between $3-$12... our you can buy a Best Electronics Gold Dot for about $40.

 

And Best also sells replacement flex circuits inexpensively.

 

You shouldn't be having that much trouble with your 5200 sticks. It is unfortunate, because this is the kind of experience that really colors a person's perception of the 5200. I'd pick up a handful of controllers, if you can... and part out several very reliable ones from that pile.

[Christophero Sly]

I wouldn't recommend against getting a 5200, but I would recommend that you keep your expectations low.

 

As other's have said, the controllers present a real problem, both in terms of reliability and function. Finding a working controller or rebuilding one is an additional expense and hassle. Moreover, the analog nature of the stock controller isn't well suited to most of the arcade ports on the system. IMO, getting the most out of the 5200 requires a digital controller alternative. The Trak Ball is also a nice controller option for games like Centipede and Missile Command, and having one helps to justify owning the system.

 

There are a few exclusive arcade ports on the 5200, like Space Dungeon and Qix, but I don't think they, alone, make the system worth owning. Also, many of the arcade titles on the 5200 would be better described as adaptations rather than ports. If you're expecting a high degree of visual fidelity, you might be disappointed.

 

The 5200 is a decent system, but owning a 2600 and 7800 already, you may find more of what your looking for with the Colecovision.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Christophero Sly

[Albert]

If you had to choose between an Atari 8-bit computer (such as an 800XL or 130XE) over the 5200, I'd pick the computer hands down. The Atari 8-bit computers have a huge number of games in cartridge, disk, and cassette form. They use standard 2600 controllers, so you avoid problems with the 5200's analog sticks. They are relatively compact, and they already have composite output (and with a proper cable, s-video output).

 

If you're not interested in a computer and just want consoles, then I would pick up a 5200, use an adapter to play most games with a 2600 (or some other digital) controller, and upgrade the 5200 controllers so they work reliably. Most of the 5200 game library can be had pretty inexpensively, especially all the titles Atari produced, as well as the Activision, CBS, and Parker Brothers libraries. There are only a handful of expensive titles, most notably Bounty Bob Strikes Back (which happens to be my favorite game on the system--but it's also available as an 8-bit cartridge and easier to play with 2600 controllers).

 

..Al

[Brian R.]

I have an 800 XL, and an XE Game System.

 

The funny thing is, when I feel like playing Pac-Man, more often than not I'll grab the 5200. Not sure why that is.

 

I have Pac Man on an 8-bit cart. I guess the only difference is it's missing the intermissions. I don't have many 8 bit carts - maybe I need more.

 

The one game I have for 8-bit but not 5200 that I really enjoy is Lode Runner. I wish there was a 5200 cart of it.

 

But if we're talking about a 5200 alternative, wouldn't the XE GS be the better solution? It even has Missile Command built into it.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Brian R.

[Paranoid]

I think that some versions of the 8 Bit Pac Man do include the intermission, yet, I agree, Pac Man is a title where I turn to the 5200. Maybe the difference is between disk based and cart based 8 bit versions of Pac Man? In any case, I think the reason is that the 5200 version is more challenging. It came out later, and was kind of the initial release carrot for the 5200 (along with Galaxians)... But for whatever reason play just feels better on the 5200 than on the 8 bit for this title.

 

As far as the ports being adaptations, that may be true, but they are some of the best adaptations available, in many cases, superior to the real deal. Space Dungeon was always an obscure niche title in the arcades, but on the 5200, it really shines. The difficulty is ramped down considerably, which actually makes for a more enjoyable DUNGEON game, because you can EXPLORE. On the arcade version, you're making a mad rush for the door as you are literally SWARMED by rooms overflowing with enemies. Space Dungeon and Countermeasure alone are compelling reasons for owning a 5200. Dual stick Robotron is fantastic, and has far more energy than the 7800 counterpart, despite not being as graphically advanced. 5200 Donkey Kong (admittedly, an 8 bit conversion), murders Colecovision and 7800 Donkey Kong *combined*.

 

Here is the thing... you can get a 5200, and play almost ALL of the 8 bit titles that are WORTH playing, plus a bunch of 5200 exclusive titles, the way they were meant to be played... with a certain investment in digital sticks and the like.

 

On the 8 bit, some games that have an advantage on the 5200 BECAUSE of the analog sticks, aren't going to be the same, under any conditions. Either they'll have digitial stick solutions, or paddle solutions. And there are some titles that leverage the analog sticks effectively.

 

The 8 bit is also overwhelming, like the C=64, in that it has such a HUGE library of titles, and many of those are *not* console specific type games that you can pick up easily. They're PC games. Not all of them, but a lot of them.

 

Personally, I've got them all. 7800, 5200, and Colecovision and an 8 bit Atari. They ALL have their strong and weak suits, and they ALL represent pretty much the same era in gaming, the sweet spot of classic gaming. It really becomes a matter of which ones you want to get FIRST and which ones are most relevent to you personally.

 

I'm always hesitant to recommend the 5200, because it is an acquired taste, and it seems to help tremendously to have experienced it first hand in its prime. Clearly it evokes strong feelings for and against it. But, it is, hands down, in ALL ways, my favorite retro/classic console of all time, and I do not personally think there is another classic console that comes anywhere CLOSE to matching its capabilities and plain fun-factor. The only thing that DOES come close, is an Atari 8 bit PC... which is just a 5200 with a keyboard and more I/O options, after all, so it is no surprise, that.

[Albert]

Here is the thing... you can get a 5200, and play almost ALL of the 8 bit titles that are WORTH playing, plus a bunch of 5200 exclusive titles, the way they were meant to be played... with a certain investment in digital sticks and the like.

Uhrr, I have to strongly disagree with this point. There are thousands of games for the Atari 8-bit computers and many hundreds that are great games that cannot be enjoyed on the 5200. Atarimania.com has 7,176 8-bit games in its database. The 5200 library only covers a bit over 100 games, and nearly 30 of these are unreleased prototypes. To say that the 5200 can, "play almost ALL the 8-bit titles that are WORTH playing" is a great injustice to the Atari 8-bit library of games.

 

The only thing that DOES come close, is an Atari 8 bit PC... which is just a 5200 with a keyboard and more I/O options, after all, so it is no surprise, that.

Given that the Atari 8-bit computers came first, the 5200 is basically an Atari 400 minus the keyboard and I/O options.

 

..Al

[jboypacman]

You know i own a 2600,7800,Vectrex,Colecovision,and a 5200.I love all of them.I think its worth owning a 5200 if you own a 7800.I play all my game systems.Lots of great games for the 5200,Miner 2049er,Montazuma's Revenge,Pac-Man,Joust,and others.The way i look at it myself is am collecting parts of classic gaming history.

[accousticguitar]

The only reason I might buy a 5200 is for Adventure II. Otherwise, you can get the APE hardware and software for about $80 which hooks your Atari 800xl to a pc. Once you have that, you can download thousands of games to play on the 800xl. On the other hand, if you wait long enough Adventure II is supposed to come out on the Atari computer. Then you wouldn't need the 5200 at all.

Edited October 19, 2006 by accousticguitar

[phuzaxeman]

i've got all the atari's. the 5200 is my fav. it has much better games than the 7800. it has better graphics than the 2600. pick up a multi cart, good rebuilt controllers, and this piece of history is a blast.

[phuzaxeman]

i've got all the atari's. the 5200 is my fav. it has much better games than the 7800. it has better graphics than the 2600. pick up a multi cart, good rebuilt controllers, and this piece of history is a blast.

[JB]

The only reason I might buy a 5200 is for Adventure II. Otherwise, you can get the APE hardware and software for about $80 which hooks your Atari 800xl to a pc. Once you have that, you can download thousands of games to play on the 800xl. On the other hand, if you wait long enough Adventure II is supposed to come out on the Atari computer. Then you wouldn't need the 5200 at all.

Unless you wanted to play the best version of Qix that isn't an emulation of the arcade game, or the ONLY version of Space Dungeon other than an arcade(Taito STILL hasn't brought this one home).

 

Both games were hacked, since I'm sure someone will inevitably mention the back-ports, but Qix with a 1-button stick is crap, and as I recall, the Space Dungeon hack was a single-stick affair, which is also crap.

[jaybird3rd]

Unless you wanted to play the best version of Qix that isn't an emulation of the arcade game, or the ONLY version of Space Dungeon other than an arcade(Taito STILL hasn't brought this one home).

 

Both games were hacked, since I'm sure someone will inevitably mention the back-ports, but Qix with a 1-button stick is crap, and as I recall, the Space Dungeon hack was a single-stick affair, which is also crap.

Very true ... 5200 Qix and Space Dungeon are very cool games, as is Adventure II and the unreleased Xari Arena.

 

Having said that ... four games (and maybe a handful of other 5200 exclusives) wouldn't be quite enough to make me want to hold onto yet another console, especially one as bulky and problematic as the 5200. It looks cool, but all of the games can be had elsewhere.

 

I do hope someone fixes Qix and Space Dungeon on the 400/800, though; I wonder if it would be possible to use 7800 joysticks in two-button mode on an 8-bit computer for Qix?

[jpfalcon2003]

I have a 7800 and a 5200. The 5200 dosen't get played as much as my 7800, but I still love it. Make sure you got good sticks and I recommend a multicart so you can play all the games at a cheap price. You may also want to purchase all the new homebrews that are coming out. They are great.

[JB]

Unless you wanted to play the best version of Qix that isn't an emulation of the arcade game, or the ONLY version of Space Dungeon other than an arcade(Taito STILL hasn't brought this one home).

 

Both games were hacked, since I'm sure someone will inevitably mention the back-ports, but Qix with a 1-button stick is crap, and as I recall, the Space Dungeon hack was a single-stick affair, which is also crap.

Very true ... 5200 Qix and Space Dungeon are very cool games, as is Adventure II and the unreleased Xari Arena.

 

Having said that ... four games (and maybe a handful of other 5200 exclusives) wouldn't be quite enough to make me want to hold onto yet another console, especially one as bulky and problematic as the 5200. It looks cool, but all of the games can be had elsewhere.

But it looks cool!

 

 

I do hope someone fixes Qix and Space Dungeon on the 400/800, though; I wonder if it would be possible to use 7800 joysticks in two-button mode on an 8-bit computer for Qix?

That'd be pretty nice if it's possible.

Though the 7800 sticks seem to be something less than playable in 2-button usage, it still opens the door for various hack controllers.

[accousticguitar]

The only reason I might buy a 5200 is for Adventure II. Otherwise, you can get the APE hardware and software for about $80 which hooks your Atari 800xl to a pc. Once you have that, you can download thousands of games to play on the 800xl. On the other hand, if you wait long enough Adventure II is supposed to come out on the Atari computer. Then you wouldn't need the 5200 at all.

Unless you wanted to play the best version of Qix that isn't an emulation of the arcade game, or the ONLY version of Space Dungeon other than an arcade(Taito STILL hasn't brought this one home).

 

Both games were hacked, since I'm sure someone will inevitably mention the back-ports, but Qix with a 1-button stick is crap, and as I recall, the Space Dungeon hack was a single-stick affair, which is also crap.

 

I have to admit, the 5200 version of Qix is really good!

[Shannon]

Although I personally think the 8-bit computer is the better way to go (especially considering where you are located). I thought it only fair to point out that with the right hardware (USB cart/multicart) there are a handful of 8-bit to 5200 ports that can be played as well.

[Paranoid]

Here is the thing... you can get a 5200, and play almost ALL of the 8 bit titles that are WORTH playing, plus a bunch of 5200 exclusive titles, the way they were meant to be played... with a certain investment in digital sticks and the like.

Uhrr, I have to strongly disagree with this point. There are thousands of games for the Atari 8-bit computers and many hundreds that are great games that cannot be enjoyed on the 5200. Atarimania.com has 7,176 8-bit games in its database. The 5200 library only covers a bit over 100 games, and nearly 30 of these are unreleased prototypes. To say that the 5200 can, "play almost ALL the 8-bit titles that are WORTH playing" is a great injustice to the Atari 8-bit library of games.

 

The only thing that DOES come close, is an Atari 8 bit PC... which is just a 5200 with a keyboard and more I/O options, after all, so it is no surprise, that.

Given that the Atari 8-bit computers came first, the 5200 is basically an Atari 400 minus the keyboard and I/O options.

 

..Al

 

You inadvertently made my point for me, Albert. The 8 bit library is overwhelming, with a MOUNTAIN of crap titles, and a lot of games that are not CONSOLE oriented, but instead the genesis of PC gaming, which is uniquely different. So, for the person interested in CONSOLE gaming, the "advantages" of the 8 bit are not necessarily so. 7,176 games! And probably 6500 of them you'll play once and never return to. The 5200 on the other hand, has a mere 130 or so games, and most of them, you'll play twice. This is often cited as one of the main reasons (although not as clearly stated as this) for why the 5200 still enjoys such a significant user base. It has perhaps the most SOLID library of titles of any console, with very few outright turkeys relative to other platforms. It certainly is a quantity versus quality argument.

 

As far as the chicken-or-the-egg argument, sure, you're technically right... but it is a matter of semantics. My point wasn't about the chronological order... it was that they ARE the same hardware. While you implicate that the 5200 is actually naught but a lowly 14kb 400 without even so much as a keyboard, we should elaborate... the VAST majority of those 7,176 titles are designed for the lowest common denominator of the 8 bit atari world, the Atari 400 with 14kb of RAM.

 

The rest of the points (Space Dungeon, Qix) have already been made. And I think that while I've made my pro-5200 stance clear here, I also have been transparent about the reasons I do NOT recommend the 5200 without any reservation.

 

I would add, I still think *most* people should AVOID the SIO & APE path and instead go with the MyIDE multicart. It has certain limitations, but it is SO much more convienient, for around the same price (and potentially far cheaper, if you already have some of the components necessary to get going). You unleash your Atari from your PC. Instead, you have a simple cart, with a CF card in it, that holds all of your titles. No external power necessary, no extra cables, and getting files from your PC to your Atari is as simple as popping your CF into your PC and copying them over. APE and SIO seems more oriented toward people who want to use the Atari as a real PC, and not just as a glorified 5200. In my case, that is what my 800 is to me, a convienient 5200 alternative (with a huge library and the natural ability, as noted by Albert, to use regular CX26 style digital sticks). I *do* think that the 8 bit is a viable alternative to the 5200 if you're willing to sacrifice the unique titles that make the 5200 really shine and you want access to a huge QUANTITY of titles. But I think MyIDE is a better route to achieve this goal than APE and SIO.

[Shannon]

I have to go with paranoid there. A MyIDE multicart and some type of flash card looks to be the better way to go. And it is true that a good majority of the best titles are already avaiable for the 5200 in some form or another. But I could probably name another 50 or more 8-bit only titles that are good quality titles. Don't forget but you can also get an XEG lightgun and there are about 5 light gun games for the 8-bit that you do not have on the 5200.

 

All atari fever would need to do ask on the atari 8-bit forum and he would get a whole list of non-5200 titles to try out without having to sift thru them himself.

 

If he does go 5200 and for some reason does not like the controllers, he could always get one of those adapters from here at atari age and use a digital stick. (as long as he has a 5200 stick with functional start, select, and pause buttons).

Edited October 19, 2006 by Shannon

[Paranoid]

I think it is basically 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. I'd recommend getting both... a 5200 and an Atarimax 128-in-1, and an 800XL and a MyIDE.

 

If I had to choose one, that would be a hard choice.

 

Here is one important criteria, though, that a lot of people miss.

 

When Start, Pause and Reset go out on a 5200 stick, at best, you clean the carbon dots and the flex pad, at WORST, you replace the flexpad or the controller cable...

 

What do you do on an 800xl when the Start/Select/Reset/Option keys go bad? Talk about a PITA repair to perform.

 

Either case, you're in the same boat... games that you can not start. Personally, I'd rather deal with a bad start button on a 5200 controller than bad keys on an Atari 8 bit.

[Shannon]

True but I've yet to see keys go bad on an 8-bit as easily as they do on a 5200.

Edited October 20, 2006 by Shannon

[kenfused]

I do hope someone fixes Qix and Space Dungeon on the 400/800, though; I wonder if it would be possible to use 7800 joysticks in two-button mode on an 8-bit computer for Qix?

I think a good comprise for qix would require you to press the button to be be able to start drawing, but then you can immediately release the button for fast draw. This would fix the problem of accidently drawing when you dont want to.

 

Is space dungeon pretty dependent on analog controllers?

[Paranoid]

The deal with Space Dungeon is that it uses the dual directional joysticks. I'm not sure if it is analog in response...

 

The keys on my 8 bit are going bad, and I've read reference to a repair that is pretty complex for the keyboard (although it IS supposed to be a one shot, lifetime repair).