Is a 5200 worth it to a 7800 owner?

[phuzaxeman]

Unless you wanted to play the best version of Qix that isn't an emulation of the arcade game, or the ONLY version of Space Dungeon other than an arcade(Taito STILL hasn't brought this one home).

 

 

....Having said that ... four games (and maybe a handful of other 5200 exclusives) wouldn't be quite enough to make me want to hold onto yet another console, especially one as bulky and problematic as the 5200. It looks cool, but all of the games can be had elsewhere...

 

 

four games wouldn't be quite enough? i could name more than a dozen of great 5200 games worth keeping.

 

bulky? that didn't stop the xbox sales?

 

problematic? other than the controllers, nothing problematic. get the controller upgrades.

 

 

i find it funny how people make these claims yet own a 7800 or jaguar when those systems really don't have many decent games like the 5200.

 

to name a few:

 

missle command and centipede on the trackballs, space dungeon and robotron on the dual controllers, super breakout, pengo, gremlins, berzerk, dreadnaught factor, countermeasure, star raiders, real sports baseball, star trek, pac man, super cobra, zenji; there's just so many great games on this system for a true collector.

 

the atari 5200 and the lynx have the most high percentage of good games to bad for atari video consoles. i love my 7800 but many of those games suck (one on one, karateka, double dragon, fight night). the jag is great for like 4 games? what a waste too....

[Lord Thag]

I have pretty big stacks of stuff for both the 8-bits and the 5200. Here's my opinion:

 

5200:

Good system with a couple of exclusive ports. Star Raiders is better on it, and games like rescue on Fractalus are better for the analog control. Other games (lets say Gorf or Kaboom) do not. The controller is quite good when it works, but is generally unreliable. If you get one, order a refurb kit from Best Electronics or get a Wico or Masterplay and you'll never have another contoller problem. The 5200 has a smaller software library, and is very easy to collect for and it has a very high percentage of great games in the library. It also looks cool as hell and many 8-bit games have been ported over in recent years.

 

8-bit: WAY more software. Uses standard Atari/Commodore joysticks. Literally thousands of games if you get an SIO2PC cable. Has a much broader range of titles including RPGs and Strategy games (Alternate Reality anyone?) It IS a computer (though you can just get an XEGS and use the console part if you want), so you have to mess with DOS and all that if you are not using carts. The carts are generally harder to find and (generally) more expensive to get, barring the most common ones. There is a lot of crap (like any computer) to sift through, but also a lot more gems.

 

I have to agree with Albert and the rest. Having recently purchased a fat stack of carts, I prefer the 8-bits. There's just too much good stuff you can't get on the 5200.

[JB]

I do hope someone fixes Qix and Space Dungeon on the 400/800, though; I wonder if it would be possible to use 7800 joysticks in two-button mode on an 8-bit computer for Qix?

I think a good comprise for qix would require you to press the button to be be able to start drawing, but then you can immediately release the button for fast draw. This would fix the problem of accidently drawing when you dont want to.

 

Is space dungeon pretty dependent on analog controllers?

Space Dungeon's standard 8-way digital. You just need 2 sticks to play it right.

[Shannon]

Just another note. Even if there is a bunch of "crap" to sift thru on the 8-bit. If you just stick to stuff that came on standard cart (include the 5200 in your list) as well as the XEG carts (the big 128k ones) you're already over the amount you would have access too on the 5200 in addition to having the light gun games.

 

When you get bored ( ) you could always look into other titles.

[Paranoid]

I think phuz makes an interesting observation about the 7800 and Jag.

 

I don't have any intention of owning a Jag, not having had one in the day, so I can't speak to that...

 

But the 7800, really the only justification I can see for it is with a CC2 as a 2600. It is only an interest in the reverse compatability that makes the 7800 worthwhile, IMHO. Otherwise, the native library, despite having a FEW jems, is mostly unremarkable, which is as much a fault of the gameplay itself as of the titles. You can almost invariably find better versions of every title the 7800 has to offer (many of them on the 5200).

 

Now, despite that, I think Lord Thag makes the strongest case so far as far as an impartial, logical assessment of both options presented here. I don't agree with his final opinion (I love my 800xl *and* my 5200, but if I had to pick between the two, I'm biased toward the 5200. It wins on *style* alone).

 

I suppose I should mention I have an 800xl *and* an original 800... just because I think the original 800 is also a DAMN COOL piece of retro goodness. I never had one in the day, but I would have given one of my prepubescent gonads to have had one back in the day. Now I do... it is the CLOSEST to having something solely for the sake of "collecting" that I have in my retro collection.

 

One thing I missed as I rambled...

 

Gorf is one of those rare examples where the 5200 version is just inexplicably BUNGLED BEYOND BELIEF.

 

I'm not sure how they managed to make it completely unredeemable *while* trying to leverage the advantage of the analog stick... but that is EXACTLY what they achieved. It flies in the face of all my arguments about how a game that was designed to take the 5200 controller into consideration generally was IMPROVED by that. The Colecovision, 8 bit, and even 2600 versions are far better than the 5200 version. If you're a GORF fan alone, then you can safely pass the 5200 up and you'll never miss a thing. It is a shame that with this particular title, by TRYING to accomodate the 5200 controller, they made the game equally unplayable with a digital stick... but I don't know if it would help, even if this weren't the case.

Edited October 21, 2006 by Paranoid

[Brian R.]

I find it bewildering that some are trying to argue that the 5200 and/or 5200 games are superior to the 7800... and even the Jaguar!

 

I own a 5200. I like my 5200. But face facts - there are few games on the system that are really still fun to play today. Now, there are probably some games that I don't play because I don't like them. I have 45 game carts, and the one I play most is Pac-Man. Others are Pengo, Space Invaders, Astro Chase and Koffi. That's it. Five.

 

The 5200's Activision titles are not much better than their 2600 counterparts. And a game like Super Breakout is better on a 2600 with a paddle, IMO.

 

As for the 7800, yes, it's a great convenience that it's backwards compatible. That way I need just one machine to play two complete series of games, 2600 and 7800. There are way more than five 2600 games I'll still play, and I have 240 in total. As for the 7800's library, where my count is 42, I tend to favor the ones I can use a 2600 controller with - Galaga, Ms Pac-Man, Food Fight, Dig Dug and Donkey Kong. That's also five. And I've got the three new Pac-Man hacks that are incredible.

 

And thanks to having a joypad, I can play the games that need two buttons, like Xenophobe and the unique Ninja Golf.

 

And I'm also a Jaguar owner. I'm pretty sure there the number of good games on the Jag outnumbers the 5200, and they're not all old arcade ports. Doom, Wolfenstein, Iron Soldier, Raiden, Tempest 2000, AvP, Missile Command 3D, Atari Karts, Battlesphere... and probably a few others.

 

As I said, I have a 5200. I'm proud to have a 5200. I like the 5200. But don't put it in fights it can't win.

[phuzaxeman]

I find it bewildering that some are trying to argue that the 5200 and/or 5200 games are superior to the 7800... and even the Jaguar!

 

I own a 5200. I like my 5200. But face facts - there are few games on the system that are really still fun to play today. Now, there are probably some games that I don't play because I don't like them. I have 45 game carts, and the one I play most is Pac-Man. Others are Pengo, Space Invaders, Astro Chase and Koffi. That's it. Five.

 

The 5200's Activision titles are not much better than their 2600 counterparts. And a game like Super Breakout is better on a 2600 with a paddle, IMO.

 

As for the 7800, yes, it's a great convenience that it's backwards compatible. That way I need just one machine to play two complete series of games, 2600 and 7800. There are way more than five 2600 games I'll still play, and I have 240 in total. As for the 7800's library, where my count is 42, I tend to favor the ones I can use a 2600 controller with - Galaga, Ms Pac-Man, Food Fight, Dig Dug and Donkey Kong. That's also five. And I've got the three new Pac-Man hacks that are incredible.

 

And thanks to having a joypad, I can play the games that need two buttons, like Xenophobe and the unique Ninja Golf.

 

And I'm also a Jaguar owner. I'm pretty sure there the number of good games on the Jag outnumbers the 5200, and they're not all old arcade ports. Doom, Wolfenstein, Iron Soldier, Raiden, Tempest 2000, AvP, Missile Command 3D, Atari Karts, Battlesphere... and probably a few others.

 

As I said, I have a 5200. I'm proud to have a 5200. I like the 5200. But don't put it in fights it can't win.

 

5200 is not better than a jaguar in terms of graphics, sound, etc. if you compare the 5200 to the intellivision, 2600, colecovision, and anything out during that time, it was the top.

 

now the jaguar's competition, (n64 and ps1) was far above the jaguar as far as games. i love my jaguar for the fact that its unique but really compared to a ps1 or n64, it will get killed.

 

the 7800 competed with the nes and that pretty much was not even a competition too.

 

you look at the lynx, and it was cutting edge technology and led the pack of handheld portables.

 

so the 7800 and jaguar failed pretty badly against its competition in perspective. not only that, the percentage of good games to bad games on a lynx and 5200 is so much better than a jaguar and 7800. gosh the jag had a lot of horrible games (trevor, ninja, club drive, ultra vortek to name a few)

Edited October 21, 2006 by phuzaxeman

[Paranoid]

The 7800 fails against the 5200. Donkey Kong 7800 is clearly a port of the NES version, and the NES version is not very good itself. The 5200 version is, despite being less faithful in general graphics, a far more engaging game with highly servicible graphics none-the-less. There is a strong concensus here that seems to be in agreement on this much. Beyond that, in general, this is consistent across titles that exist for both platforms. The only title that exists for both platforms where the 7800 has a CLEAR and indisputable advantage, in my experience, is Xevious, and in all fairness, the 5200 version is a proto that was never released (but I think it is clear that the 5200 did not have enough graphics horsepower for this title).

 

I've got a 7800 with a CC2... so I've pretty much got my bases covered there... and it very rarely gets turned on lately. I will, from time to time... Adventure, Dragon Stomper on occassion, maybe a quick game of Yars Revenge... but generally, it just doesn't get much playtime.

 

My Coleco, my INTV, they sit dormant. My NES, SNES, Genny 1... every now and then...

 

Right now my XBox is getting a lot of hours logged on it, but, it is incognito and thinks it is a 5200 at the moment...

 

But mostly, it is my 5200, and my 800xl that I always come back to. Here is the claim where you completely part with the conventional wisdom...

 

But face facts - there are few games on the system that are really still fun to play today.

 

Sorry, but the general and wide concensus of opinion is that the Atari 5200 library is one of the most solid and enjoyable libraries of all time. Quotes like, "Almost every title on this system including most of the protos, are still fun to play to this day" are common throughout retro sites. "Despite a relatively small library, the ratio of good titles to bad on the 5200 is very strong, making this an easy console to collect for and one with a lot of value even today". Yup... review after review, those are the kinds of things you hear about the 5200... of course, they also all almost inevitably bitch about the controller.

 

The 7800, by itself, is a NES with a far smaller and odder library. If it was not for the 2600 backwards compatibility, I am certain it would be the forgotten child of the Atari console lineup... and rightly so.

[Lord Thag]

Yeah, I like the 7800 ok, but I play the 5200/8-bit a lot more. A lot of the 7800 titles are just average, though there are some great games. The Donkey Kong games are VASTLY superior on th 8-bits. Even though the 7800 has a lot more power (in some areas), a lot of the games on it feel rushed or shoddy to me. There are a few really good games on it, but I prefer the 8-bits.

 

When it comes down to it, it's really a matter of preference. the 5200 is a great system, and so are the 8-bits. Either way, you've got a lot of really good games. I owned a 7800 LONG before i got my 5200, and yet i play the 5200 far more these days. Great system.

[simbalion]

My first old system and Atari system in general was a 7800. I liked the system ok, but my main reason for getting it was it's compatibility with 2600 games. I have found the actual 7800 games to be rather disappointing. The next system I got was a Coleco, but I lost interest in it pretty quickly too. Now I have an actual 2600 and my 7800 collects dust for the most part. The big 5200 always fascinated me from the first time I saw one at the flea market and it has proven to be a superior console to my 7800. The 7800 was ok, but I think Atari should have really just spent that budget on the 5200 for improvements and games rather than a system that was eventually delayed. I would say to go for a 5200. Get one with good controllers and that big beast will surprise you!

[Atarifever]

From the feedback here, I think I'll just get an 8-bit. I want an old timey computer in my collection anyway, and it seems like it handles most of the good 5200 games anyway. Thus, 2 birds, 1 stone. I might get a 5200 at some point for collection sake. Thanks for the help guys.

[bones]

Good call. Now to figure out what 8 bit to get...400/800/800xl/1200/65xe/130xe/XEGS... but that's another topic

[BassGuitari]

Good call. Now to figure out what 8 bit to get...400/800/800xl/1200/65xe/130xe/XEGS... but that's another topic

 

Atari 800. End of topic.

[JamesD]

Some games require 64K and don't run on the older 800 even if it is the machine I think of first when people mention the Atari 8 bit. It has 4 controller ports and later models have 2.

 

Of the other models people often say the 1200 had the best keyboard but a buggy ROM.

 

The 800XL may be the best overall game system for cartridges. Top loading and with the right ROMs can run any game cart.

 

The 130XE has the most RAM.

[HP Atari King of Michigan]

I have both a 5200 AND a 7800. Both are stored away right now, but I like playing on the 5200. I say go for it, but be careful. Expect to pay high if you go on eBay. If you can find one at a flea market for cheap, snatch it up.

[shadow460]

I think it really depends on what titles you're looking for. Some, of course, are exclusive to one system or the other.

I have not played many 5200 games. The ones I've played are Pac-Man, Megamania, Frogger, Miner 2049er, and Bounty Bob Strikes Back. Each of those is a solid game in itself.

However, the 7800 library is not to be overlooked, either. I've read that Ballblazer is better on that system, and the 7800 has a solid lineup of arcade titles. It has decent gun games in Crossbow and Meltdown. It uses paddle controllers for the appropriate 2600 games instead of requiring a modified controller to work with a port of a game.

 

"Is a 5200 worth it to a 7800 owner?" My answer there is a resounding "Yes! It's worthwhile to have both systems no matter which one you get first."

 

I'll find out over the next few weeks which one I play more. I have a 5200 coming in the mail with rebuilt controllers but no PSU or switchbox. I'll add in a standard DC jack and have it share the same RF hookup as my 7800 and NES.

 

I throroughly enjoyed playing both of the 4 ports I owned in the past. I'd still own one if I knew they could be fitted with regular power jacks.

Likewise, I've enjoyed most of my 7800 time, althouh I've found a couple stinker games over there.

[jetset]

 

However, the 7800 library is not to be overlooked, either. I've read that Ballblazer is better on that system, and the 7800 has a solid lineup of arcade titles.

 

 

Lol. In print it certainly is better.

In reality thery're nearly identical. Considering the 7800 is a much more "advanced" system, it's only minute graphical differences that are an improvement on the 7800 version. You literally have to look pretty close to tell the difference. Not that the 7800 isn't a better system (graphically), but Ballblazer is definetly not the game to prove it.

[shadow460]

I'll have to try 5200 BallBlazer once I get my console modded, then. Matter of fact, there are quite a few titles I'll try out if I can get hold of them.

[JB]

 

However, the 7800 library is not to be overlooked, either. I've read that Ballblazer is better on that system, and the 7800 has a solid lineup of arcade titles.

 

 

Lol. In print it certainly is better.

In reality thery're nearly identical. Considering the 7800 is a much more "advanced" system, it's only minute graphical differences that are an improvement on the 7800 version. You literally have to look pretty close to tell the difference. Not that the 7800 isn't a better system (graphically), but Ballblazer is definetly not the game to prove it.

I thought the diffrences were pretty striking. Even if it was mainly just much sharper players.

 

 

But yeah, it's nothing earth-shattering. Just a bit less aliasing.

[shadow460]

Well, there's games in both libraries that make that particular system worth owning, too. I'm going to seek out both of the Big Five titles soon, as they're a complete blast to play.

If I want Miner on the 7800, though, I gotta get Bill's permission and then code it myself.

If the shoe is on the other foot, though, you get a very good version of Asteroids and you get Galaga, among a few others.

[ZylonBane]

Considering the 7800 is a much more "advanced" system, it's only minute graphical differences that are an improvement on the 7800 version. You literally have to look pretty close to tell the difference. Not that the 7800 isn't a better system (graphically), but Ballblazer is definetly not the game to prove it.

So higher-resolution sprites and a consistently faster frame rate don't prove anything?

[Shawn]

5200 Ballblazer isn't even in the same ballpark as 7800 Ballblazer. The later is much, much better in all ways.

[gnxv6]

Hey everyone! This is my very first post here since I became a 5200 owner again. I'd like to chime in since this topic is already posted. It was my very first video game system I ever owned when I was 13. I'm 36 years old now and I can't believe I bought this thing again! I really enjoy it, it brings back great memories. I used to have bbsb back then too and I traded the 5200 and about 15 games for a mini bike. I wish I kept bbsb! Damn! I cannot believe how much that damn cart is going for! I also bought the 7800 with 28 games a couple of years ago. This thing is in mint condition and still has the plastic strip on the chrome bezel! But you know what? I think I want to get rid of the 7800 and put it on ebay soon. I can't believe they are using the 2600 sound card on this thing! To me, it ruins the enjoyment on these games! I have many of the good ones and also some of the rare ones and I don't care to part with it. I play the 5200 way more than the 7800 because I think the games play better and are more intense. I just could not get into the 7800 even though the graphics were a little better. I also did not care for the controllers either. I actually liked the 5200 controllers better when they worked right. I still remember taking that pencil eraser on the flex board to take the erosion off to get it going again. I also just sent out the 5200 to OSG in Canada to get the s-video upgrade card put in.

Anyways, IMHO the 5200 seems to be a better system than the 7800 because of the games just play better and especially the sound on the 5200 blows the 7800 away.

Oh, and plus what some of you guys have said: The 5200 console just looks so bad ass!

Edited November 15, 2006 by gnxv6

[Michael_]

5200 Ballblazer isn't even in the same ballpark as 7800 Ballblazer. The later is much, much better in all ways.

 

Ballblazer on the 7800 is the definitive version of one of THE best one-on-one sports simulations ever.

Heck, my 7800 is always unpacked and ready to go just so I can get the occasional game of Ballblazer.

 

Now, the 5200. I´d get it also. Games like Rescue on Fractalus, Gremlins, Berzerk and Space Dungeon don´t come any better elsewhere.

The prospect of perhaps playing Cloak and Dagger on it someday is also a bit interesting.

The 5200 is one cool beast. Not a must-have, but certainly not to be overlooked either.

[Paranoid]

So higher-resolution sprites and a consistently faster frame rate don't prove anything?

 

Do you get it, Zylonbane? You're on a forum where people eschew modern consoles that have so much more resolution and faster frame rate that it isn't even the same ballpark. One of the foundation arguments you encounter around here is that "Just because the machine is more powerful, doesn't mean it is more fun". I mean, that *is* what it boils down to.

 

So, to answer your question, yeah, faster frame rate and higher resolution sprites count for something. They count for illustrating that even with more advanced hardware features, a newer console may not actually be *better* than an older generation console.

 

I agree with the people who say own both. The 7800 is an interesting system. As for some of the disadvantages of the 7800... like the 5200, the 7800 gets a lot of grief for the Prosticks, and a lot of people do not like the joypay euro sticks either. But, that really points to the solution. You do not need to use one stick or the other. You can EVEN use the CX26 joystick for the majority of games. Or, you can build yourself a stick. I've got an RSI and a Jakks Ms. Pac Man stick converted for the 7800. Any stick that will work on your 2600 will work for your 7800, and there are a lot of solutions to have a 2 button 7800 stick, as well. In my case, I've got a converted RSI stick for both consoles, so in either case, I'm using basically the same stick. IMO, that really levels the playing field for comparing the actual titles... and the majority of them are simply more FUN (forget superior, forget better, let's stick with something relevent) than the 7800 titles.

 

For the 8 bit, you want an 800xl. The 800 is a gorgeous machine that represents Atari's heyday, *but*, the 800xl is more practical and flexible.