Planet Bob

I think it's a seasonal lull. I don't think it sucks at all - the demo looks absolutely beautiful.

I have been meaning to give you some feedback, but I have been offline for most of the last week. There definitely seems to be a bit of a lull in the homebrew/programming forums at the moment - perhaps it is that people are on holiday, or that the universities/schools are just about to start another year? Unfortunately I'm not entirely sure what feedback to give you. I guess part of the reason for a lack of feedback is that you seem to have everything under control, and you are clearly already a very accomplished 2600 programmer! The main technical issues appear to have been solved and the screen display is looking great (my own preference is for the 1LK version that you posted). I think there will be more opportunity for feedback once the game is actually playable, and the gameplay can be tested. I am not yet familiar with the game, and I will download the MAME rom soon to get a feel for the gameplay. I definitely don't think that you should give up, as it looks like it is coming together nicely, and it definitely doesn't suck So basically my advice is to carry on and hopefully things will pick up once the forums get busier again and the game is playable.

 

Chris

I feel your pain.

 

The feedback I got for M-4 was almost nil, especially the last several versions I posted. For that, I think it was just that a watered down Combat just didn't excite people. (Though I do think that 72 variations, each for 1 or 2 players, is pretty cool.)

 

For Colony 7, I think it is a little different.

- The game is not playable yet. No one is interested in a tech demo these days.

I think this is the biggest reason. There was a lot of discussion about the terrain/buildings and how that should look, but there isn't a lot to comment on the latest demo you posted - there aren't any real sprites to look at. Only some of us geekier folks care to choose between a 2LK oval and a 1LK oval.

I think all of the other things you listed factor in as well, though.

 

One other thing to keep in mind: the 2600 library is stuffed with 2D shooters with a space theme. I think Colony 7 is unique enough to be worth doing, but you probably won't get the same excitement over Colony 7 as you did over Crazy Balloon, which was much more unique and fresh.

 

Just my two cents.

Hi guys!

 

Thanks for your kind words of encouragement, helping me over my crisis. Guess I just had a very bad morning of sorts, feeling somewhat frustrated (Maybe that's what they call burnout syndrome? )

 

Only some of us geekier folks care to choose between a 2LK oval and a 1LK oval. 

 

And here I thought if no one even manages to answer that simple a question, I better bury the project. I thought it being that "If you can't say anything nice..." syndrome and everybody was just too kind to outright tell me that the project sucks. Really, I'd always prefer to have someone saying "stop it, it sucks" in time instead of reading that in a review once it's done

 

Thanks again, on with the mission!

 

Greetings,

Manuel

I think M-4 is very cool.

 

I especially like the way the score was handled at the top.

 

I do think while there are still plenty of coinop ports to try on the 2600, that originality still matters. That's why I still like Oystron best of all the homebrews even though it's not the most technically impressive.

 

If Manuel has maxed out his 2600 coding skills (and it seems to be the case given how quickly he can wire up a kernel) then he might be more challenged by focusing on original game design.

Hi there!

 

I think M-4 is very cool.

 

I agree with this. But I fear that it probably was already too late in the game for a simplistic game like this. I was getting away with Gunfight 5 years ago, but I think for a homebrew the bar is already set a little higher these days. Most players don't see behind scenes to admire the coding miracle that's required to get 4 sprites updated on individual scanlines like that, they just see another "sprite A shoots sprite B" game...

 

If Manuel has maxed out his 2600 coding skills (and it seems to be the case given how quickly he can wire up a kernel) then he might be more challenged by focusing on original game design.

 

Interesting enough, I was discussing that with the Xype guys ~ one year ago. Here's a quote from my mail back then:

 

"I for one can't do *original* work and I don't want to. My idea was always to port games. Not for profit, but as sort of a homage.

 

It started this when I still had my C64. When the Amiga came out I started porting those games that weren't made for the C64 anymore. I just wanted my C64 to survive and I wanted to show the world that it can do just the same as an Amiga.

 

Somewhere in the cellar at my parents home there's C64 diskettes with my (total crappy) attempts of "Populous" and "F/A-18 Interceptor"... :)"

 

Greetings,

Manuel

I think M-4 is very cool.

 

I agree with this. But I fear that it probably was already too late in the game for a simplistic game like this. I was getting away with Gunfight 5 years ago, but I think for a homebrew the bar is already set a little higher these days.

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

I agree that it is too simple - originally I had targetted a 1K release, but in the end I got too attached to being faithful to the original that I was unable to cut enough stuff to get it down to 1K

 

Glad you're back in the groove with Colony 7, Manuel.

Hi Manuel,

 

I think part of it is that there are so many homebrew projects going on these days that it is difficult to keep up with all of them. You are admittedly better at keeping up than many of us.

If Manuel has maxed out his 2600 coding skills (and it seems to be the case given how quickly he can wire up a kernel) then he might be more challenged by focusing on original game design.

 

I think there is still plenty of scope for new 2600 coding tricks using RAM expansion. Boulderdash was the first homebrew that really showed off the potential of a bit of extra RAM, but it is a pity that it hasn't appeared in cart form yet. I recently decided that I was going to focus my future homebrew efforts in this area (e.g. the Supercharger), though it still feels a bit like cheating

 

Chris

I'm very interested in the Colony 7 project... when you first started talking about it I downloaded the arcade ROM and played it in MAME for several days, and I really like the game. I, personally, have been quiet because I'm not so sure that I know what I'm talking about enough (when it comes to code, anyway) to suggest things. Maybe I do, I'm writing a game now but it's taking forever (as all first projects do, I suppose )

 

But... I like the 1LK ovals I think the entire scene is in a bit of a lull right now though, either my email is acting up or [stella] has been quiet lately.

I agree with this. But I fear that it probably was already too late in the game for a simplistic game like this. I was getting away with Gunfight 5 years ago, but I think for a homebrew the bar is already set a little higher these days.

 

What makes you think that?

 

I hope that's not true.

 

I do think the more games that come out the more each game has to distinguish itself, but that's not a bad thing.

 

Would you feel good thinking that the only reason someone picked up a game was because it was the ONLY new 2600 title released at some convention?

 

Most players don't see behind scenes to admire the coding miracle that's required to get 4 sprites updated on individual scanlines like that, they just see another "sprite A shoots sprite B" game...

 

What evidence do you have of this? You sure you aren't just in a negative mood lately?

 

My feeling, and it's just a feeling, is that the excitement about prototypes is pretty much over. I think the reason people were up on proto repros is they wanted new games to play on their VCS. But what's worth more, a copy of an unfinished game like Elevator Action or a well-polished homebrew like Sea Wolf?

 

I think the turning point there was when Thomas did the tech demo for Turbo, or maybe the 3D rubiks cube demo. We're at a point where if we want a proto we could just write it from scratch and it might even be better than the theoretical proto.

 

And we can go back and add missing elements like the two extra bases and trackball support in Missile Command or driving controller support in Sprintmaster, etc... Hacks have become very sophisticated these days.

 

 

 

"I for one can't do *original* work and I don't want to. My idea was always to port games. Not for profit, but as sort of a homage.

 

Well, don't keep doing a hobby if it's not fulfilling anymore.

 

It's a different era now so the motivations you had back then might not be valid anymore. But it may take a while for your brain to catch up with this.

 

I know Thomas has become more of a technical advisor and facilitator of late. He's really been invaluable to me in particular with Death Derby. You may want to do the same. If you have trouble inspiring yourself to write a game, you might want to just donate or fix kernels for others.

 

I know in my case I'm much more into game design than game programming so I'm always encouraging programmers to come up with new ideas or venture beyond the confines of a strict port.

I recently decided that I was going to focus my future homebrew efforts in this area (e.g. the Supercharger), though it still feels a bit like cheating

 

Chris

 

IMHO, it's only cheating to use the Supercharger if the end result doesn't look like you really took advantage of it. Like writing a Combat game using the Supercharger just so you can loosen up your kernel timings.

 

At one point I thought about doing Death Derby on the Supercharger and that definitely would have been a copout for such a simple kind of game.

Hi there!

 

What makes you think that? I hope that's not true.

 

Just some observations I think I have made. Sea Wolf, Climber 5 and Joustpong came out the same year. Sea Wolf and Climber 5 made it into the "Bestseller" ranking of AA by now. Why didn't Joustpong enter it? There's nothing wrong with it, so becuse it's "a pong clone"?

 

I don't think Gunfight would make it today. It just benefitted of an early birth

 

I do think the more games that come out the more each game has to distinguish itself, but that's not a bad thing.

 

Distinguish itself in quality? Originality? Gameplay?

 

Would you feel good thinking that the only reason someone picked up a game was because it was the ONLY new 2600 title released at some convention?

 

If at the next convention you could choose between a bBASIC game and Man Goes Down, which one would you choose?

 

What evidence do you have of this?  You sure you aren't just in a negative mood lately?

 

None and no

I was in a very bad mood yesterday.

 

My feeling, and it's just a feeling, is that the excitement about prototypes is pretty much over.  I think the reason people were up on proto repros is they wanted new games to play on their VCS.  But what's worth more, a copy of an unfinished game like Elevator Action or a well-polished homebrew like Sea Wolf?

 

Depends on the proto I guess. I'd go crazy over some Wild Western bits showing up

 

I think the turning point there was when Thomas did the tech demo for Turbo, or maybe the 3D rubiks cube demo.  We're at a point where if we want a proto we could just write it from scratch and it might even be better than the theoretical proto.

 

Yeah, I don't like protos either. Most just suck. And the handful of good ones have already been released in the 90's. To me the proto craze was over with the one that did nothing but displaying the McDonalds M with the playfield

 

Well, don't keep doing a hobby if it's not fulfilling anymore.

 

Oh, it sure is and I love it.

 

It's a different era now so the motivations you had back then might not be valid anymore.  But it may take a while for your brain to catch up with this.

 

I know Thomas has become more of a technical advisor and facilitator of late.  He's really been invaluable to me in particular with Death Derby.  You may want to do the same.  If you have trouble inspiring yourself to write a game, you might want to just donate or fix kernels for others.

 

Really, you must've gotten me wrong somewhere. I've still way too many things to do and still way too many games to write. I'll never stop

 

My rant yesterday was really focused on Colony 7, since I feared I was wasting time on a project that no one is interested in.

 

I know in my case I'm much more into game design than game programming so I'm always encouraging programmers to come up with new ideas or venture beyond the confines of a strict port.

 

Just not my cup of tea. If I were into that, I'd do Direct X instead

 

Greetings,

Manuel

Interesting enough, I was discussing that with the Xype guys ~ one year ago. Here's a quote from my mail back then:  "I for one can't do *original* work and I don't want to. My idea was always to port games. Not for profit, but as sort of a homage.

 

I think it is very difficult to produce games that are not either a port or derivative in some way. Hunchy 2 was my attempt at something original, but it clearly borrows from a lot of different platform games of the era. I still find the idea of porting a newer game to an older architecture to be an amusing one, though I suppose it is not all that different from the Arcade->Atari ports that happened back in the day.

 

Incidentally, has anything happened to Xype, as I there haven't been any recent releases, and the website has been static for a long time? I was surprised that Crazy Balloon wasn't released under the Xype label?

 

Chris

Hi there!

 

Incidentally, has anything happened to Xype, as I there haven't been any recent releases, and the website has been static for a long time?  I was surprised that Crazy Balloon wasn't released under the Xype label?

 

I guess it's just sleeping these days. And somehow I didn't feel like waking it up for Crazy Balloon

 

In a slowly creeping process at some point the inactive memebers had the active ones outnumbered, so as a democratic body it was no longer operational.

 

I thought a while about launching a new label were I had full control about everything, but then Dave made me realize that Crazy Balloon could go as well with my name only

 

Greetings,

Manuel

I thought a while about launching a new label were I had full control about everything, but then Dave made me realize that Crazy Balloon could go as well with my name only

 

What function does Xype as an entity serve in the game development process?

Hi there!

 

What function does Xype as an entity serve in the game development process?

 

Well, not much actually. It's pure existance probably motivated people to go an extra mile here or there to further improve and polish their games.

 

Greetings,

Manuel