Thea Realm Fighters

[MegaData]

High Voltage hasn't released it yet?

[kevincal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D85aZNQPP1w new vid of this game and it looks great

[Tempest]

Yep it's a 90's Motral Kombat clone. Looks nice for the Jag though.

[+CyranoJ]

Hopefully a beta will turn up on the net and the usual "Jaguar cash-cow money gouge" doesn't happen.

[Willard]

if this randomly turns up on the net the "usual cash cow money gouge" is more likely to happen, since someone is going to start burning carts even tho they didn't pay for it Skunkboards may reduce the effect, but not eliminate it.

 

would rather see someone like MegaData who paid a bit for this stuff recover some of his investment rather than some random repro dealer profiting. Although that presumes MD actually intends to release his cache of Thea resources, which might never happen

Edited December 11, 2011 by Willard

[+save2600]

TRF looks awesome on many levels. Looking forward to seeing this released someday.

[sh3-rg]

someone is going to start burning carts even tho they didn't pay for it

 

I don't think anyone could afford what it'd take to pay off High Voltage & the actors to make a legal release of this Alpha happen (checking the video, there's no way that game is anything close to being a feature-locked Beta, it's seriously early code). Would High Voltage want something so rough being associated with them when they're actively producing stuff for current platforms? Doubtful. From what I've read on this forum & JS2, it seems there are already copies of this game in different hands (it was shared around at some point) and also hints that someone occasionally burns the game to a flash cart & eBays it? That's the way I read it. Possibly how the guy who made that video got hold of his copy? No idea, he didn't offer that info on youtube.

 

would rather see someone like MegaData who paid a bit for this stuff recover some of his investment rather than some random repro dealer profiting. Although that presumes MD actually intends to release his cache of Thea resources, which might never happen

 

Agreed on one part of that - random repro dealers who release stuff and take cash for software they don't have the rights to are doing nobody any favours... not all that sure too much of that has ever gone on with the Jaguar though.

 

Suppose it'd all depend on the terms under which the guy bought what he has as to whether or not he could 'recover his investment' - pretty doubtful they were sold with any rights to that effect though, in that case any investment made would be in a collectible value, not in rights to reproduce or call it your own software.

[Willard]

someone is going to start burning carts even tho they didn't pay for it

 

I don't think anyone could afford what it'd take to pay off High Voltage & the actors to make a legal release of this Alpha happen (checking the video, there's no way that game is anything close to being a feature-locked Beta, it's seriously early code). Would High Voltage want something so rough being associated with them when they're actively producing stuff for current platforms? Doubtful. From what I've read on this forum & JS2, it seems there are already copies of this game in different hands (it was shared around at some point) and also hints that someone occasionally burns the game to a flash cart & eBays it? That's the way I read it. Possibly how the guy who made that video got hold of his copy? No idea, he didn't offer that info on youtube.

 

would rather see someone like MegaData who paid a bit for this stuff recover some of his investment rather than some random repro dealer profiting. Although that presumes MD actually intends to release his cache of Thea resources, which might never happen

 

Agreed on one part of that - random repro dealers who release stuff and take cash for software they don't have the rights to are doing nobody any favours... not all that sure too much of that has ever gone on with the Jaguar though.

 

Suppose it'd all depend on the terms under which the guy bought what he has as to whether or not he could 'recover his investment' - pretty doubtful they were sold with any rights to that effect though, in that case any investment made would be in a collectible value, not in rights to reproduce or call it your own software.

 

since I was the one sharing that information on JS2, I might as well clarify and say that most of the people who have acquired it have been "lucky enough" to get a copy by looking hard enough and ultimately paypaling $x for a ROM of the game (either on disc or flash cart) rofl. The ROM was presumably initially shared among "trustworthy individuals," and one of them ultimately started (very discreetly) cashing in. I personally have been offered but don't want to be a part of such dealings. Both because I think MD should be the one to release this and because I don't really care to be part of any elitist circle. What we get we release asap and don't share it with "privileged" individuals.

 

concerning your other comments, i don't really know what you're driving at. Cyranoj said he would rather see the rom pop up on the net than someone making money off them. I was just pointing out that community donation-based releases or limited prints are fairly standard in the community and they better allocate the money to those who put up for the ROMS (i.e. the cash-cow effect is reduced because the indiviudal making money off the physical copies distributed actually has to break even before they see some of those crazy high profits that release groups frequently retire off of ).

Edited December 11, 2011 by Willard

[LinkoVitch]

If it were able to be released (legals asside) the fairest method IMHO would be for the person with the original proto cart to dump the ROM and release it, and also offer up cart based copies of the title too. This way EVERYONE gets to play (mostly), and see the game, and no one is making a fat wad of cash from it.

 

We all do this stuff for fun right? well I do

[+Sauron]

If it were able to be released (legals asside) the fairest method IMHO would be for the person with the original proto cart to dump the ROM and release it, and also offer up cart based copies of the title too. This way EVERYONE gets to play (mostly), and see the game, and no one is making a fat wad of cash from it.

 

We all do this stuff for fun right? well I do

 

Exactly. That model has worked out quite well for pretty much every other platform. No reason why it wouldn't on the Jag.

[+CyranoJ]

I was just pointing out that community donation-based releases or limited prints are fairly standard in the community and they better allocate the money to those who put up for the ROMS

 

Donation based with a download is all good and fine, mandatory purchase... not so much.

[Willard]

I was just pointing out that community donation-based releases or limited prints are fairly standard in the community and they better allocate the money to those who put up for the ROMS

 

Donation based with a download is all good and fine, mandatory purchase... not so much.

 

I was going to quote Linkovitch but I suppose this point applies to both. yes it seems fair that ROMs should be made available for download and for physical sale/donation at the same time. However:

 

(Option 1) If you sell and free download at the same time you cannot truely know if enough people will buy in order to break even. This is worse with carts since you do not want to get stuck with costly excess. I do not really see how it's fair to put the liability on the release group rather than the buyers. Of course if the release group has alot of disposable income and does not mind taking a loss, it's their choice, that'd be nice of them (but not necessarily fair to them)

 

(Option 2) If you buy one proto and it's really cool, then set a target donation point to cover your cost then that's awesome and you're really lucky However, if your operation is an ongoing concern and you continue to take risky investments such as buying multiple computers not knowing what's on them, then perhaps it's more fair to make a profit up from so that you can take on additional risk. This is the most efficient outcome because a singular release group makes all the profits so that they can take all the losses. If you make a $3K purchase and it's a dud then it doesn't break the bank.

 

However, like I said, if you find an awesome proto and are feeling generous then release it however you like, that's so much easier if you have a ton of disposable income

[+CyranoJ]

But then again, if you buy something cool like that with the intent to package it up and sell it (with no free download) you look like you've jumped on the "Jaguar cash-cow money gouge" train.

 

But all this is immaterial, as High Voltage still exist, and it's their game.

[Willard]

I suppose you're entitled to your perspective cyranoj objectively, you cannot factor in how much slower the game will sell to reach the break even point if others know that it'll be available for free later on. Nor can you anticipate how much it will reduce sales even if you do break even (and thusly if you are a fan who really wants to continue buying computers that might otherwise be erased or protos that might otherwise be hoarded .etc how much that will impact your ability to do so).

 

Yea, I agree this is HVS's game, again irrelevant on the premise that you initially suggested it should be dumped and offered for free on the net

[+CyranoJ]

objectively, you cannot factor in how much slower the game will sell to reach the break even point

 

There's the 'sell' word again. I can't remember the last time someone found something cool and Jaguar related, like a beta or whatever and didn't instantly go for a cash-grab, can you?

 

Well, other than Curt that is. But I guess people like that are few and far between

[Willard]

that was really nice of Curt, and yea people like him are very rare

 

Surprisingly most of the protos released have been purchased on auction or through sale based on common knowlege. I think if you want to do away with all these greedy cash-grabbers you should front the money and release this stuff for free

[+CyranoJ]

I think if you want to do away with all these greedy cash-grabbers you should ..... release this stuff for free

 

Yup, just like every other non-Jaguar non-cash-grab retro platform

[Willard]

I think if you want to do away with all these greedy cash-grabbers you should ..... release this stuff for free

 

Yup, just like every other non-Jaguar non-cash-grab retro platform

 

That part about you fronting the money for these protos is mysteriously missing from my quote, pretty selective omission there Cyronoj

Edited December 11, 2011 by Willard

[+Sauron]

I think if you want to do away with all these greedy cash-grabbers you should ..... release this stuff for free

 

Yup, just like every other non-Jaguar non-cash-grab retro platform

 

That part about you fronting the money for these protos is mysteriously missing from my quote, pretty selective omission there Cyronoj

 

Pretty selective by you to entirely skip over the fact that protos are both made as carts and released for free FOR EVERY OTHER F***ING GAME SYSTEM and yet we haven't heard crap about "return for investment" whines from anyone else. When I hear the words "investment" and other crap like that when it comes to the Jag, it makes me want to hurl.

[Willard]

I think if you want to do away with all these greedy cash-grabbers you should ..... release this stuff for free

 

Yup, just like every other non-Jaguar non-cash-grab retro platform

 

That part about you fronting the money for these protos is mysteriously missing from my quote, pretty selective omission there Cyronoj

 

Pretty selective by you to entirely skip over the fact that protos are both made as carts and released for free FOR EVERY OTHER F***ING GAME SYSTEM and yet we haven't heard crap about "return for investment" whines from anyone else. When I hear the words "investment" and other crap like that when it comes to the Jag, it makes me want to hurl.

 

Nobody was actually talking about a return on investment, that's a profitibility ratio I was referring to break even points. I don't know how often you visit Assembler forums or other sections of Atariage but I've seen a fair number of releases that require target donations, are exclusively cart-released, or released as you say - both free and for sale at the same time. I far prefer free stuff (of course!). But if someone buys something.... I think there is a strong sense of entitlement to think that they should just give it away for free.

[+Sauron]

I think if you want to do away with all these greedy cash-grabbers you should ..... release this stuff for free

 

Yup, just like every other non-Jaguar non-cash-grab retro platform

 

That part about you fronting the money for these protos is mysteriously missing from my quote, pretty selective omission there Cyronoj

 

Pretty selective by you to entirely skip over the fact that protos are both made as carts and released for free FOR EVERY OTHER F***ING GAME SYSTEM and yet we haven't heard crap about "return for investment" whines from anyone else. When I hear the words "investment" and other crap like that when it comes to the Jag, it makes me want to hurl.

 

Nobody was actually talking about a return on investment, that's a profitibility ratio I was referring to break even points. I don't know how often you visit Assembler forums or other sections of Atariage but I've seen a fair number of releases that require target donations, are exclusively cart-released, or released as you say - both free and for sale at the same time. I far prefer free stuff (of course!). But if someone buys something.... I think there is a strong sense of entitlement to think that they should just give it away for free.

 

There's nothing "entitled" about it. This is a hobby for 99% of us, first and foremost. No one is expecting betas to be released for free, but at the same time, it's happened quite extensively for every other system out there. Except, of course, for the Jag. And I've been around these parts far longer than you. I'd venture to say I have a pretty good idea of what certain people have paid for betas and then subsequently release them for free to the public. There's always ways to recoup the costs, regardless of how much was spent. Not everyone looks at the classic gaming community as a bunch of suckers willing to pay big bucks for unfinished games.

[Willard]

I agree with you that people should not look at the community as a bunch of suckers willing to pay big bucks for unfinished games - or even profit really. My entire emphasis was breaking even

 

Yes, I have serious problems with certain releases and prices charged for certain games. If you read some of my posts in this thread you will see that I don't agree with the "underground ripoff sales to selective people who aren't even the original release group." I think more or less we agree on this point.

 

I personally disagree with trying to mandate how games are released or trying to profit off of things that someone else was generous enough to release (that was originally my point btw). I think this topic has been cycled through in this thread so much now that the point is becoming unclear and wires are being crossed lol.

 

I respect others opinions and they can share their perspective or release their games/discoveries however they want... I can see how some people take issue with specific release groups or methods of release. Just wanted to explain the hazards of certain alternatives and a little of the background behind this specific title (Thea Realm of Fighters, just in case anyone forgot by now).

Edited December 12, 2011 by Willard

[+CyranoJ]

Yea, I agree this is HVS's game, again irrelevant on the premise that you initially suggested it should be dumped and offered for free on the net

 

Good, I'm glad you agree. When did Warner Brothers go out of business, btw?

[Willard]

Returning back to the beginning (to remember how this started lol)...

 

Hopefully a beta will turn up on the net and the usual "Jaguar cash-cow money gouge" doesn't happen.

 

this whole discussion was under the context of "whether a cash cash-cow money gouge" would be more likely to occur if megadata sold the game or if it was released on the net. I did not frame the context unfortunately. I was simply suggesting that someone will profit far more if "the game was released on the net," as you say, since there is a relative degree of certainty that someone besides megadata will begin burning copies and selling them. And that individual would not have any prior financial investment. If I'm not mistaken megadata has upwards of $5-10k invested in his dealings with HVS. This is under the presumption that "cash cow" relates to profit.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Willard

[+CyranoJ]

It's only an "investment" if you plan to make money from it (ie, cash cash-cow money gouge) - Otherwise it's just a file on a hard disk. That doesn't belong to the seller.