Is it possible to have colored text like a C64?

[dwhyte]

I've tried a couple of experiments with no success... is there a way to get colored text (1 color per line for now) on a Mode 2 line? Maybe with a combination of a DLI?

 

 

Once I get that down, I'd like to try exerimenting with setting horizontal colors in a Mode 2 line (something like the Happy Master sector editor)...

[Gury]

Yes, of course it is possible... One DLI with hardware color register change on each of 8 scanlines.

[pps]

Hmm, you can´t have a totaly free color. You can choose just a luminance of the backgroundcolor. This causes in a very colorful screen.

 

If you use some player/missle underlay, there might be a more flexible color variation.

 

Other way is to use the gtia-modes for coloured texts. But this results in a lower font resolution.

 

EDIT: I attached a little screenshot of an old discmag I wrote for example what a screen looks like in mode 2 and color changed.

Edited February 20, 2007 by pps

[dwhyte]

Yes, of course it is possible... One DLI with hardware color register change on each of 8 scanlines.

 

OK... so would I go about doing it like this? ->

 

GREENTEXTDLI  PHA
					TYA
					PHA
					TXA
					PHA
					LDA #0		; Sync it up
					STA WSYNC
					LDA #162
					STA COLPF1; Change Text Color (709)
					...
					...
					RTI

 

I'm missing something, but I'm still not skilled enough to see how... Everything I've tried just has the text color as a luminance of the text background color...

 

[edit]

... yeah, that's what I thought PPS... oh well... It was worth a shot... It would have been nice to use Mode 2, now I'll just have to bitmap the colored text I guess...

Edited February 20, 2007 by dwhyte

[pps]

Yes, as I said, the textcolor is always a luminance of tha background (better register 710 decimal) in Antic mode 2.

 

You can play a little with pm grafics to colorize the mode 2 text, but this is not a simple job. But it can be done off course.

Edited February 20, 2007 by pps

[pseudografx]

If there are just short strings on every line (ie. 10 chars per line), you can use PMG for masking the chars and this way have the text use different colour than the background. But such use is very limited. My advice would be to use GR.12 (Antic mode 4) and define a font to be easily readable in 4x8 pixels. Such font is used eg. in Spellbound. This way you can even use more colours on single line (up to 4).

Edited February 20, 2007 by pseudografx

[dwhyte]

Yes, as I said, the textcolor is always a luminance of tha background (better register 710 decimal) in Antic mode 2.

 

You can play a little with pm grafics to colorize the mode 2 text, but this is not a simple job. But it can be done off course.

 

 

Yeah...

 

I like the Mode 7 line at the top... Ummm... Now how would I go about setting the 8 different colors on each mode scanline? I only know how to do it for the entire line (refer to above code only put in COLPF2)

Edited February 20, 2007 by dwhyte

[JamesD]

I've tried a couple of experiments with no success... is there a way to get colored text (1 color per line for now) on a Mode 2 line? Maybe with a combination of a DLI?

 

 

Once I get that down, I'd like to try exerimenting with setting horizontal colors in a Mode 2 line (something like the Happy Master sector editor)...

If I remember right, the C64 let's you specify colors for each character. Simulating that beyond a color set for each line could be nasty unless you have a similar font mode or have bit mapped graphics with enough resolution and colors to duplicate it by drawing the characters.

[pps]

Oh that´s totaly simple.

 

Set the color, set wsync, set the color, set wsync...

 

Each STA wsync results in one scanline down. if you 'call' it twice you get two scanlines 'down'.

Edited February 20, 2007 by pps

[atarixle]

You can use Graphics 12 and 13. It has an equivalent resolution as Graphics 15, one character is 4*8 Pixels, but with the right font, this text-screen will look as good as text in Graphics 0 with DLI.

[emkay]

Some may say "oh no" not this one again

 

But, if you have a look at this picture:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...97&hl=clues

 

In the middle you see some "hires" readable coloured text.

It's graphicsmode: The DL interleaves "Gr.8" with "Gr. 15".

For real, it doesn't take use of any DLI code, except you want to change some more colours.

[Heaven/TQA]

oh no...emkay... but had expected a screenshot... not just the link...

[ZylonBane]

Yes, as I said, the textcolor is always a luminance of tha background (better register 710 decimal) in Antic mode 2.

Stop saying that. It's obviously silly and wrong.

 

Text color is set by the background color. Text luminance is set separately.

[SeaGtGruff]

I've tried a couple of experiments with no success... is there a way to get colored text (1 color per line for now) on a Mode 2 line? Maybe with a combination of a DLI?

Many years ago, I wrote some machine language routines that can be called from Atari Basic using the USR function. They let you use up to four different colors on each row of GRAPHICS 0 text, although of course there are limitations, so it isn't quite as spectacular as it sounds. What you actually get are two different sets of GRAPHICS 0 colors per text row, meaning the normal set (background color and luminance, plus the text luminance), along with a second set (a second background color and luminance, plus a second text color as created by mixing the normal text luminance with the new background color). In other words, you get two different hues, and three different luminances, per GRAPHICS 0 text row. You can easily set or change any of these colors on any of the text rows, either for an individual row, or for a range of rows. And you can draw "boxes" of color on the screen using any of the four colors-- although the colors may change from row to row within the box, depending on which colors have been set for each row.

 

The way it works is by using DLIs, of course, and by setting all of the players and missiles to their quad-width sizes, so that each player/missile pixel is as wide as a GRAPHICS 0 character, then positioning the players and missiles across the screen so that each GRAPHICS 0 column corresponds to a specific player/missile pixel (or bit). To get the normal screen colors, the player/missile bits are turned off. To get the additional screen colors, the player/missile bits are turned on. To draw the "boxes" of color, the inverse bit of each character, along with the player/missile bits, are turned off or on as appropriate.

 

The last time I tried to run it in an emulator, there was some sort of problem, which was either caused by a typo when I re-entered the program from an old listing, or by some kind of quirk in the emulator. I'll pull it out of the mothballs, see what I can do with it, and post it.

 

Michael

[carmel_andrews]

Isn't Gr.0 just a text version of Gr.8 (as it has a similar resolution)

[Rybags]

You're very limited with GR. 0 thanks to the badlines.

 

In mode 8, you can effect mid-scanline changes thanks to the extra 33 or so cycles otherwise lost (40 - the memory refresh that gets skipped).

 

I'm surprised no-ones done a generic routine to do something like 6x8 characters in GR. 15 - to me 3 pixel across text just doesn't look good.

 

With creative use of PMGs and a kernal, you could probably get an easy 7 or 8 individual colours in a GR.8 line, but there would be limitations (4 PLR, PF4 for missiles, one or two PF2 changes).

 

Then, there's always the option of changing to a GTIA mode mid-scanline but not very useful for text.

[+Larry]

I've tried a couple of experiments with no success... is there a way to get colored text (1 color per line for now) on a Mode 2 line? Maybe with a combination of a DLI?

(snip...)

 

In addition to the techniques already mentioned, the Atari somewhat easily allows 4-color characters.

See the article in Analog #12, Jul/Aug, 1983: "THE ATARI's FOUR COLOR CHARACTER SETS" by David Plotkin.

This article also included an example game called "CAT AND MOUSE."

But the bottom line is none of the methods for the Atari are a easy as the C64 (and early IBM's using CGA/EGA).

-Larry

[+Random Terrain]

So if I had an Atari computer instead of a VIC-20 and then a C-64, I would have had to stand on my head to have colored text? I thought having 8 colors, then 16 colors was limiting, but I guess it wasn't all bad.

[emkay]

So if I had an Atari computer instead of a VIC-20 and then a C-64, I would have had to stand on my head to have colored text?

 

No one really knows, why they did that. The Hires mode is intentionally dropped down to only show a luminance level of the background, because of the NTSC(the worst TV standard at all) Limits.

[+Larry]

So if I had an Atari computer instead of a VIC-20 and then a C-64, I would have had to stand on my head to have colored text? I thought having 8 colors, then 16 colors was limiting, but I guess it wasn't all bad.

 

It just depends on what machine factors are more/less important to the individual user. I have personally never found the lack of colored text to be a significant limitation, especially when the DLI method is pretty straight-forward, if one really wants to use several text colors/luminences.

-Larry

[JamesD]

Because of the number of colors and the user definable graphics characters it made certain types of games easy to do on the C64 and they looked pretty good.

The Plus/4 was totally character generator based and look what people are doing with it on the game XeO3.

http://www.xeo3.org/

[+MrFish]

So if I had an Atari computer instead of a VIC-20 and then a C-64, I would have had to stand on my head to have colored text?

 

Yes! You must stand on your head! This forces the blood-rush that will make many impossible things happen while viewing the Atari.

 

Also, you can try spinning around in circles. This technique has been found to produce interesting and colorful animations...

[dwhyte]

Oh that´s totaly simple.

 

Set the color, set wsync, set the color, set wsync...

 

Each STA wsync results in one scanline down. if you 'call' it twice you get two scanlines 'down'.

 

Thanks pps... another mystery for me from the past solved...

[pps]

Thanks pps... another mystery for me from the past solved...

I´m glad that I could help you to solve this mystery

 

With help of wsync you are able to write a screenroutine without any dli. That´s how many of the high end tricks in all these cool demos are done (e.g. Our 5oft screen of Unity Demo with 3 graphics modes in one scanline, or almost every graph 2 font picture).

[Goochman]

This was one thing that I really hated not having on the 8bit way back - I was just a Basic coder so getting colored text was really difficult