Karateka - I know, I know, don't laugh - I have an idea...

[Danno]

Everybody here seems to hate Karateka, or at least most of you anyway. I happened to like it back when I had my 7800 in the 80's, but I realize it's frustrating flaws now, even though I still like it.

 

Anyway - So in all of this work and testing I did with ZX-81 to get the PSP7800 emulator released (Sony PSP port of Prosystem emulator) - I noticed something REALLY cool.

 

Most of Karateka's annoying problems are due to it's really slow gameplay and controller reaction time, right? Well, in PSP7800 you can alter the clock speed, in 5 FPS increments up to the standard 60 FPS, or you can turn off Speed limiting altogether. When you do this in PSP7800 for Karateka - the FPS the game runs at jumps up to about 72 FPS.

 

Guess What? - It's PERFECT and amazingly playable at that speed. Controller reaction time is excellent. speed moving around is Arcade-like (Reminds me of Kung Fu Master).

 

So - since I really don't know jack shit about that actual 7800 hardware, is there a way to alter the ROM's coding so that the game will play at a different rate (70 FPS is preferred) on REAL hardware, or is this simply the fastest it will go on real hardware, and we have no choice?

 

 

Also - in PSP7800 using the same clock speed altering method - when you set the speed limiter to 40 FPS for One on One basketball - the shot clock runs at the normal speed.

Edited May 5, 2007 by Danno

[Shawn]

Danno I think this is an excelent idea and I hope it can happen.

[shadow460]

You're not the only one who actually likes that game. I can usually adjust myself to a game's timing, and when I played Karateka, I didn't hate it at all. I think the game has a lot of potential.

That's awesome that you've got it running well on the PSP. It gives those who own both a PSP and a 7800 a chance to enjoy the title the way it was meant to be.

[+remowilliams]

or you can turn off Speed limiting altogether. When you do this in PSP7800 for Karateka - the FPS the game runs at jumps up to about 72 FPS.

So you're saying that with a massive overclock of the 7800 emulated hardware you enjoy the game? I don't see how fiddling with the game's code is going to make the 7800 faster.

Edited May 5, 2007 by remowilliams

[Danno]

or you can turn off Speed limiting altogether. When you do this in PSP7800 for Karateka - the FPS the game runs at jumps up to about 72 FPS.

So you're saying that with a massive overclock of the 7800 emulated hardware you enjoy the game? I don't see how fiddling with the game's code is going to make the 7800 faster.

But that's just it - it isn't "massive overclocking" The PSP runs at 333mhz, so when running the Prosystem emu (which requires a PC with a Pentium II 266 to run accurately) , you only eek out about an extra 10 fps on some games. Others only run at their expected 60FPS or lower, like Donkey Kong and Beef Drop.

 

I'm just wondering if something in the coding of the Game rom can be altered to speed up the gameplay. I guess I'm asking the question: Was it written to run that slowly, or is tht just the best the 7800 can do? I assume since emulators can overclock this game more than other 7800 games, that it's using less processor cycles than others, so maybe the game's rom can be adjusted to take advantage of this and speed things up....

[EricBall]

Maybe. It depends on whether Kateteka has some kind of frame action loop (i.e. frame 1 create display list, frame 2 handle user input, frame 3 handle enemy AI . . .) which can be optimized to drop one of the frames from the sequence.

[atomickneedrop]

Hey, I always liked Karateka, and I had it back in the day. I still play it. The control may be annoying, but if all games played alike, then what would be the point of more than one?

[+Random Terrain]

The game was kind of fun on the Commodore 64.

[TimsterAA]

The game was kind of fun on the Commodore 64.

 

IIRC, the game on the 64 also played in 'slow-motion'. Maybe it was coded that way. If so - maybe it would be possible to speed up on the real hardware.

 

Either way - I need to get this PSP7800 emulator on my PSP and try the sped up Karateka out!

 

--Timster--

[Video]

Well, your not going to get the 7800 itself to run faster through any software mod. However, you can alter the code to say...skip every other frame. Which if you can do properly, will escentually double the speed of the game. I don't know about a game like Karateka, but on a game like Pac0man, you can do this to give your player double speed.

 

Of course, as I said, it may be possible, but it may take a LOT more to ge tkarataka to do the same thing.

[DracIsBack]

The game is typically "slow moving", regardless of platform. My gripe with the 7800 version is the lag in joystick responsiveness. It almost seems deliberately crippled. Tap the joystick. Wait a second. Kick.

 

Fix that and I think the game would be more fun.

 

I know those guys who programmed it have shown up here and I don't mean to offend, but they did a really crappy job. No amount of telling me that the Tramiels sucked or that the 7800 was a "limited system" excuses the fact that this game sucks. The graphics are better on the XE version, the control is better and the playability is better. Considering what Sculptured, Blue Sky and Radioactive pulled off, working with the same Tramiels and the same "Limited System", IBID has to take a lot of the blame.

[Prodos8]

The game is typically "slow moving", regardless of platform.

 

The apple 2 version was slow as well. IIRC it had some joystick lag/timing issues as well. I always preferred using the keyboard on that version.

 

Since the 7800 doesn't have keyboard you just have to master the games timing with the stick.

[supercat]

The game is typically "slow moving", regardless of platform. My gripe with the 7800 version is the lag in joystick responsiveness. It almost seems deliberately crippled. Tap the joystick. Wait a second. Kick.

 

On the Apple and C64 versions, all the characters have to be blitted onto a high-resolution screen. That probably limits the game speed severely. The A800 has a faster processor, and so may be able to run the game about 25% faster than those other platforms. Perhaps the guys who coded the 7800 version were familiar with the C64 or Apple versions, and coded theirs to match?

[+remowilliams]

Does the 7800 version of Karateka speed up towards the end of the game? It's so horrific that I never made it that far before I took out the cart and flung it.

 

The A8 version starts out slow for the first bunch of fights, but the action gets progressively faster and faster. Seeing as there isn't any change in what's going on graphicswise, I always assumed it to be the way the game was designed. If a first time player had to fight at the speed of the end enemies, they'd probably get pissed right off that bat.

[Godzilla]

If you've ever played this game on apple 2 via keyboard, you will see the way it was meant to be played. the control is perfect, the gameplay is awesome, and it's very fun and challenging. I felt a great sense of accomplishment when I beat it. Every other port I've ever played paled in comparison.

Imho, the 7800 version should have been the best, since it was the most robust 8bit hardware kararteka was ported to. if the game were written FOR the 7800 in ML and not ported from a2, I bet it would rock.

As far as the speedup you mention, I dont see any reason why a clever programmer with the 7800 karateka source code couldn't eek out an extra 10% in speed (even if it was just by dropping 1 in 6 frames, for example,)

 

Karateka always reminded me of games like 'another world' and 'flashback,' i think of it as their daddy.