Atari 7800 vs Atari Lynx

[Math You]

Has anybody had the chance to compare Atari 7800 games with Atari Lynx games? Is there much difference?

[mimo]

Lynx games are smaller

[Math You]

Thanks mimo If I was to use an emulator in full screen mode, would there be much difference? I think that the 7800 has a higher resolution than the Lynx, but the Lynx is more powerful.

[+davidcalgary29]

This is a difficult comparison to make because there seems to have been little coordination between the respective development teams for the 7800 (Tramiel era) and the Lynx. As a result, not many titles were released for both systems, and games often played very differently on both. Scrapyard Dog is, for instance, an excellent platformer with many worlds for the Lynx, but it's only a so-so title on the 7800 that omits a lot of the special features found on the Lynx port. Klax was never released for the 7800 during its commercial life, but the Lynx version is superior. Toki, Electrocop, and Steel Talons haven't been yet found for the 7800.

[DracIsBack]

This is a difficult comparison to make because there seems to have been little coordination between the respective development teams for the 7800 (Tramiel era) and the Lynx.

 

Also too, when they announced the Lynx, they were largely winding down development of their set-top consoles, particularly the XE Game System.

 

They did hold a developer conference for the Lynx and 7800 but the 7800 was dying off and there is very little crossover.

 

In terms of a direct comparison, the Lynx does have significantly better sound, so the games do sound quite a bit better on the Lynx (ie. Klax). The Lynx also has a larger palette (4096 colors vs. 256 on the 7800) though the numer of on-screen colors or resolution isn't significantly different. The Lynx *would* be better at games that game use of its scaling etc, but there isn't really a 7800 equivilant.

 

At the end of the day though, the Lynx was a newer technology with more memory, some superior graphics capabilities and not a direct copy of the 7800 (vs. say the GameGear and Sega Master System which are much more similar designs).

 

As David noted, Scrapyard Dog is more detailed, though it came out after the 7800 version and was deliberately expanded upon. Klax for the 7800 is pretty good, but lacks the sound of the Lynx version (I do think they could have done a better job on the 7800).

 

All in all, not much to compare.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

It is also important to note..that the 7800 was designed in the early 80s and the tech used is that of '84. The Lynx was several years later. Nearly all the games that exist on the Lynx and the 7800, the Lynx versions always play and look superior to the 7800 version. Ms. Pac-Man, Xenophobe is a big one.

 

The Lynx seemed more capable of doing games that the 7800 couldn't or wasn't given the chance to do. It would have been really cool if the tech in the Lynx had been beefed up to display in a standard resolution common of that time for a standard TV set. It could and would have put the other 8-bits of the era to shame and could have even given the earlier 16-bit systems a run I think.

[mimo]

I'm sure that you are right, and it is a shame that the Lynx had no TV output.

If you want to play on a tiny screen then the Lynx wins hands down. For playing on a TV, the 7800, 8 bit Jag etc etc can't be touched by the Lynx.

No idea about emulators though, only ever played the 'Lynx' on my GP2X

[DracIsBack]

Didn't the Lynx also have some pretty amazing abilities to manipulate large numbers of moving objects? The 7800 was very strong in this area, but I believe the Lynx took that to the next level.

[Curt Vendel]

The Lynx is really the best way to describe it - an Amiga Portable. Dave Needles and RJ Micals from Amiga formed Epyx, and much of the hardware scrolling and zooming were taken from lesson's learned from the Amiga. Major difference was that it was a 65xx based cpu, vs the Amiga's 68xxx based cpu.

 

The Lynx was and still is, a very impressive and capable portable system. I have all of the Banker boxes with all of Dave's and RJ's engineering notebook notes, the original scribbles of the "Red Eye" and a lot of test and technical data, I would like to eventually get all that material posted up.

 

 

Curt

 

 

 

Didn't the Lynx also have some pretty amazing abilities to manipulate large numbers of moving objects? The 7800 was very strong in this area, but I believe the Lynx took that to the next level.

[Math You]

In terms of a direct comparison, the Lynx does have significantly better sound, so the games do sound quite a bit better on the Lynx (ie. Klax). The Lynx also has a larger palette (4096 colors vs. 256 on the 7800) though the numer of on-screen colors or resolution isn't significantly different. The Lynx *would* be better at games that game use of its scaling etc, but there isn't really a 7800 equivilant.

The Lynx sounds pretty impressive, even by todays standards. It's a shame the resolution is so low. Anyone know about the legality of using Lynx games on an emulator? I know that 2600 games can be downloaded, but wasn't sure if the Lynx games were still protected by copyright.

[+davidcalgary29]

In terms of a direct comparison, the Lynx does have significantly better sound, so the games do sound quite a bit better on the Lynx (ie. Klax). The Lynx also has a larger palette (4096 colors vs. 256 on the 7800) though the numer of on-screen colors or resolution isn't significantly different. The Lynx *would* be better at games that game use of its scaling etc, but there isn't really a 7800 equivilant.

The Lynx sounds pretty impressive, even by todays standards. It's a shame the resolution is so low.

 

This isn't really an issue at all. I dare you to boot up Alpine Games or Raiden and call them low-res.

 

Anyone know about the legality of using Lynx games on an emulator? I know that 2600 games can be downloaded, but wasn't sure if the Lynx games were still protected by copyright.

 

Handy is the most widely-used Lynx emulator. No current or former software house has ever authorized the use of its titles for this purpose, but enforcement is, of course, nonexistent. Most AAers do try to avoid collecting ROM images of commercially viable titles (Songbird, Duranik, Direct4/Telegames), though.

[Spector]

This isn't really an issue at all. I dare you to boot up Alpine Games or Raiden and call them low-res.

 

Raiden doesn't look low-res, but only because the arcade screen has been "zoomed in" a lot, and there isn't much space to move your ship. Still fairly playable though.

[A Sprite]

What about Double Dragon? It's not a good port for either system, but it shows off their weaknesses...? ( limited cartridge space and 2600 sound vs low resolution)

Edited May 11, 2007 by A Sprite

[+davidcalgary29]

What about Double Dragon? It's not a good port for either system, but it shows off their weaknesses...? ( limited cartridge space and 2600 sound vs low resolution)

 

I just don't see how the mentioned "low resolution" issue is a problem that compromises Lynx gameplayat all. In fact, before reading some of the comments posted in this thread, I hadn't thought about it at all. It's sort of like non-HD, cathode-ray colour television; it's low res, but you can't really tell for most purposes unless you're looking at a static screenshot. In much the same way, Lynx screenshots look terrible, and are a poor representation of what the game actually looks like when you play it. Lemmings is a perfect example: each lemming is only a few pixels high, but they're so detailed that's impossible to think of them as being blocky or crude.

 

Double Dragon certainly doesn't play to the strengths of either the 7800 or the Lynx, but it is, as you say, a crappy port of (IMO) a crappy game. I don't see that this crappiness stems from the inherent weaknesses (and they have them) of either system.

[DracIsBack]

What about Double Dragon? It's not a good port for either system, but it shows off their weaknesses...? ( limited cartridge space and 2600 sound vs low resolution)

 

Just for clarity, there's a misnomer out there that the 7800 had a weakness of "limited cartridge space".

 

This isn't a 7800 technical limitation. This is a "Jack Tramiel was too cheap to pay for decent storage space" issue. The third parties had the same approach (because the 7800 wasn't a big hit).

 

But there's nothing technical to prevent the 7800 from playing a 4 megabit version of Double Dragon other than someone willing to pay to program it or build a cart with that space.

[shadow460]

^^^^^yup. If you search around, I think it's on Dan Boris's page, you'll find a write up on four megabit board. IIRC, the designs have a POKEY included as well.

[A Sprite]

This isn't a 7800 technical limitation. This is a "Jack Tramiel was too cheap to pay for decent storage space" issue. The third parties had the same approach (because the 7800 wasn't a big hit).

 

I've never been to a board before where the truth was so highly prized or quick to be posted. Thank you for the correction - I had thought Jack Tramiel forced 3rd parties to use the smaller sizes.