Jaguar vs. 32X?

[kevincal]

Don't make me start listing them. (I'm going to anyway when I get home from work! lol )

[Gorf]

I have to disagree with Duke 3d looking better than Quake. I have both for PC and Quake looks much better, at least in my opinion, but Duke 3d is more fun.

 

As for a SNES game looking better than a PS1 game, maybe 2d. The SNES was cartridge based as the PS1 was CD, as everybody knows, and 2d is more taxing on a system than 3d, which is why the PS1 sucked at 2d. With that being said, since the SNES was cartridge based, it didn't need to load each individual frame which the PS1's limited ram, had to do. The Saturn, with the ram cart, didn't have to worry about this and is why games like Marvel vs Street fighter, Vampire Savior, or X-men vs Street fighter are far superior to the PS1 versions. So for 2d games, maybe the SNES had some that could have looked or ran better than the PS1, but even that is a stretch.

 

2D is NOT more taxing on a system unless it was not intended for 2D.

 

The math alone involded in a typical 3D scene takes more computaional power than

flipping up a bitmap on the screen. The PS1 was geared to do 3D as that was the next

gen thing. Sony was foolish to not include a much better 2D support system.

 

The Jaguar was geared to 2D and 3D in the 2D era of dominance. the emphasis on 3D

was not so strong on the Jaguar as the only game tech out at that time was doom and

wolf 3d. They knew the jaguar could handle those. Atari should have done a few moer

little extras to the 3D side. If Atari had simply fixed the blitter bugs and the OPL interrupt

issues that alone would have sped up the 3D.

 

The Jaguar has a hardware windowing system. The PS1 does not.

It has a frame buffer and you aim your renderer at that buffer and

the hardware renderes 3D texture mapped polies. Great for 3d.

Not so for 2d. A lot less efficient also.

 

 

The Jaguars widowing system, you also know it as the OPL or Object

processor can chuck around any number of windows(only limited by

the systems RAM and bandwidth) at any size and any color depth

all at one time. So you can have objects on the screen using any of

the 1,2,4,8,16 or 24 bit color depths available all in the sam frame.

 

In other words you can have as many fame buffer as you want on the

Jag as long as you have the memory for them.

 

To show the utter genious and flexibility of this.....

 

All you 8 bitters out ther know what DLI's are.

 

You can set each line of the 8 bit dispaly to a different resolution or

text mode. If ever anyone wanted to do an 8 bit emu for the jag

using this feature to 'fake' the dli ability...it would be perfect for that.

It would also be very similar to the 8 bit as the objects could simply

look at the block of memory for each line(which would be an object in the list)

as would an 8 bitter. Player missile graphics like that of an 8 bitter or a 2600

can easily be emulated using the opl. Yes a nice couple of 8 bit by height of

screen object would be all that was needed. I cant think of any hardwaer before

the jag..or really even after the Jaguar that has this level of 2D ability.

 

The OPL and the Blitter are so powerful and flexible that there is not any 2D

hardware before it it cant 'act like. the GPU and DSP can easily emulate most of

the proceesors of the pre jag consoles and arcade machines very fast.

The DSP can do any type of sound system as well so sound emulation would be

easy to accomplish due to the vast flexibility of a DSP like the Jaguar has.

 

that along with the GPU and DSP any 2d system can be emulated on the jag at

full speed up to but not including the cojag as that was a jag supercharged.

You could emu it but it would be very slow. to do a Game like Area 51 on the

jag is not at all impossible but it would be better to do it from scratch and not

emulated. Move all the 68020/mips code over to the GPU and you would be fine.

[Trip_Cannon]

Would the Jag pretty much be considered a "CoJag" with an 020 chip? Was the original Jaguar capable of games like Maximum Force or Vicious Circle otherwise?

[Atari5200]

I have to disagree with Duke 3d looking better than Quake. I have both for PC and Quake looks much better, at least in my opinion, but Duke 3d is more fun.

 

As for a SNES game looking better than a PS1 game, maybe 2d. The SNES was cartridge based as the PS1 was CD, as everybody knows, and 2d is more taxing on a system than 3d, which is why the PS1 sucked at 2d. With that being said, since the SNES was cartridge based, it didn't need to load each individual frame which the PS1's limited ram, had to do. The Saturn, with the ram cart, didn't have to worry about this and is why games like Marvel vs Street fighter, Vampire Savior, or X-men vs Street fighter are far superior to the PS1 versions. So for 2d games, maybe the SNES had some that could have looked or ran better than the PS1, but even that is a stretch.

 

lol...NO, not 2D either...Compare MK3 or Street Fighter Alpha on the systems... The PS didn't "suck" at 2D...it was only slightly not as good as the Saturn in the 2D dept... You really are over-exagerrating the Saturn 2D being better than the PS 2D...I can't believe you think the SNES does better 2D than the PS...lmao!! You must really be a Sony hater.

 

i beg to differ, have you played the games for each system? The PS1 doesn't even have tag on Marvel vs street fighter where the Saturn does because of the Ram cart. maybe if the Saturn did not make use of the Ram cart you would be right. Marvel vs Street fighter, X-men vs Street fighter are both near arcade perfect on the Saturn but far from on the PS1. Street Fighter Alpha II is also another one that is better on the Saturn.

 

2d has to load each frame of animation, think of it like a cartoon. each action is drawn, where as 3d it's not, you have the 3d model and it nothing changes, it's still the same polygons being animated, not redrawn every single time. Like a normal punch animation in 2d may have 4 or 5 different drawings of animation, each of these have to load for every character. You would probably understand this better if you had a Neo CD as this is one of the main drawbacks of the Neo CD is games like KOF have to load each characters animations into the RAM which makes doing team battles nearly unbearable. And the PS1 was not powerful enough to load the animations as it needed them from the disc.

 

Simple 2d games like adventure games and such, Yes the PS1 was fine, but for fighting games and games heavy on animations are very limited to the PS1's hardware and there is a BIG difference between these same games on the Saturn and PS1 regardless if you want to believe it or not.

[Gorf]

Would the Jag pretty much be considered a "CoJag" with an 020 chip? Was the original Jaguar capable of games like Maximum Force or Vicious Circle otherwise?

 

It was made with an 020 at first then they moved to R1000/3000 MIPS processors.

It's wonderful what you can do when your processor is supported by GNU. A simple

recompile and tada! At least in the case of this machine. Ther was NO difference in

the rest of the system from the originla cojag, just the main chip. Its really only a cross

compile as the rest of the libs should be taylored to the cojag system anyway.

 

But no its not even close....The Jag would ned and upgrade. First, an IDE controller as there

is a hard drive, then of course the hard drive. Then you would need 6 more megs of RAM.

Then a quality light gun.

 

On the games...They would require the CD and they would not be as fast loading as a hard

drive and that would mean a puase longer than normal from scene to scene. but I think a

reasonable version of them could be done if the developer forgot thier was a 68k in the Jaguar.

[Gorf]

2d has to load each frame of animation, think of it like a cartoon. each action is drawn, where as 3d it's not, you have the 3d model and it nothing changes, it's still the same polygons being animated, not redrawn every single time. Like a normal

 

 

I believe you have it backwards my good man. If what you were saying was the case...

3D games would have showed up BEFORE 2D games did. Yes we have a few vector

games with a 3D engine but that is a whole different story drawing a few vectors as

apposed to a few million lines to fill polygons per frame. the pulled of that 3D only

becasue they used precalulated value tables. No 6809 would ever beable to do those

calcs that fast in real time.

 

A typical 3D game draws(renders) to a frame buffer the polies and graphics it will

need for that frame or scene. BEFORE it does that and EVERY frame, a ton of

calulations in 3Space must be computed. The only time you would not need to

recompute the models and the rotations of the models and the translations of

the models it if the scene did not change. That is pretty much never the case in

a 3D game. Like NEVER. This is why 3D hardware accelerators were necessary.

ITS VERY TAXING!

 

Most graphics card are GPU based systems with dedicated hardware vertex

shaders, effects and math abilities. 2D does not require anything but to have

an image in ram..no loading is needed once loaded the first time. All those

frames of amin you speak of are loaded once then simply pointed to as needed

then a simple blit copy. NOT TAXING BY ANY MEANS! especially if you have

dedicated hardware to do it with. Theis is wher sony and Sega fall short.

They need to use the 3D HArdware to do 2D and it is not designed for the

really cool effects you can do wth a truw 2D engine. They can pull it off but its

alot more work and strain to the system.

 

2D is not nearly as complicated as you think. Any modern machine can do it and decent

enough for games like you mention on Saturn and PS1. My point is they are highly inefficeint

at it. They need to use 3D to draw 3D....sort of.

 

Hardware based 2D like the Jaguar is apple pie and hardly taxing to the OPL.

 

You have an object list for the Object Processor Logic or OPL. The object processor

reads that list. each obect in the list is a description of the object to be draw.

width , height, x and y posistion on screen...effects info and a pointer to the

address of the bitmap.

 

Trust me when I tell you, you only need to update the data pointer and the y position

each frame and that is not even a blink of an eye for the opl. Just look at the paralax

going on in both Trevor Mcfur and in Rayman. We are talking 24 bit RGB for Treavor.

 

That is nothing...you can double that and more with the OPL. It is that capable.

 

Software 2D is still not at all complicated. Calculate ONE address in your frame buffer.

Copy the data of the bitmap to the buffer one line at a time, the width of the image

till you have draw the height in lines. Even the older systems can deal with this.

 

Please tell me why that would tax a system? PS1 and Saturn, yes because they dont have

hardware specialized for it.

 

It is not at all as taxing as 3D. Dont let the look of a screen shot trick you to thinking

there is a lot of processing going on. That is not that case. 2D takes a bitmap and puts

it to a frame buffer. 3D calulates tons of matrix math for EVERY POINT of the 3d world.

Then it shades and textures and whathaveyou.

 

 

The Jaguar can and will easily meet and surpass the 2D stuff from either of those systems

thanks to the Blitter and the OPL. Two things you wont find inside a PS1 or a Saturn.

 

Bet you cant guess the one thing than CAN destroy the performance of the OPL?

 

Anyone? If you have been paying attention to this threadyou should certainly know by now...

 

[kevincal]

I have to disagree with Duke 3d looking better than Quake. I have both for PC and Quake looks much better, at least in my opinion, but Duke 3d is more fun.

 

As for a SNES game looking better than a PS1 game, maybe 2d. The SNES was cartridge based as the PS1 was CD, as everybody knows, and 2d is more taxing on a system than 3d, which is why the PS1 sucked at 2d. With that being said, since the SNES was cartridge based, it didn't need to load each individual frame which the PS1's limited ram, had to do. The Saturn, with the ram cart, didn't have to worry about this and is why games like Marvel vs Street fighter, Vampire Savior, or X-men vs Street fighter are far superior to the PS1 versions. So for 2d games, maybe the SNES had some that could have looked or ran better than the PS1, but even that is a stretch.

 

lol...NO, not 2D either...Compare MK3 or Street Fighter Alpha on the systems... The PS didn't "suck" at 2D...it was only slightly not as good as the Saturn in the 2D dept... You really are over-exagerrating the Saturn 2D being better than the PS 2D...I can't believe you think the SNES does better 2D than the PS...lmao!! You must really be a Sony hater.

 

i beg to differ, have you played the games for each system? The PS1 doesn't even have tag on Marvel vs street fighter where the Saturn does because of the Ram cart. maybe if the Saturn did not make use of the Ram cart you would be right. Marvel vs Street fighter, X-men vs Street fighter are both near arcade perfect on the Saturn but far from on the PS1. Street Fighter Alpha II is also another one that is better on the Saturn.

 

2d has to load each frame of animation, think of it like a cartoon. each action is drawn, where as 3d it's not, you have the 3d model and it nothing changes, it's still the same polygons being animated, not redrawn every single time. Like a normal punch animation in 2d may have 4 or 5 different drawings of animation, each of these have to load for every character. You would probably understand this better if you had a Neo CD as this is one of the main drawbacks of the Neo CD is games like KOF have to load each characters animations into the RAM which makes doing team battles nearly unbearable. And the PS1 was not powerful enough to load the animations as it needed them from the disc.

 

Simple 2d games like adventure games and such, Yes the PS1 was fine, but for fighting games and games heavy on animations are very limited to the PS1's hardware and there is a BIG difference between these same games on the Saturn and PS1 regardless if you want to believe it or not.

 

So you're saying the Saturn version is so much better than the PS version because it has...tag? lol...Really, is tag that big a deal? I don't think so... The PS versions of these fighting games may have missed a frame of animation here and there, but really, graphics wise the Saturn and PS versions are nearly identical...You make it out to be that the Playstation is way behind the Saturn in 2D, when really that isn't the case!

[Goochman]

2d has to load each frame of animation, think of it like a cartoon. each action is drawn, where as 3d it's not, you have the 3d model and it nothing changes, it's still the same polygons being animated, not redrawn every single time. Like a normal

 

 

I believe you have it backwards my good man. If what you were saying was the case...

3D games would have showed up BEFORE 2D games did. Yes we have a few vector

games with a 3D engine but that is a whole different story drawing a few vectors as

apposed to a few million lines to fill polygons per frame. the pulled of that 3D only

becasue they used precalulated value tables. No 6809 would ever beable to do those

calcs that fast in real time.

 

A typical 3D game draws(renders) to a frame buffer the polies and graphics it will

need for that frame or scene. BEFORE it does that and EVERY frame, a ton of

calulations in 3Space must be computed. The only time you would not need to

recompute the models and the rotations of the models and the translations of

the models it if the scene did not change. That is pretty much never the case in

a 3D game. Like NEVER. This is why 3D hardware accelerators were necessary.

ITS VERY TAXING!

 

Most graphics card are GPU based systems with dedicated hardware vertex

shaders, effects and math abilities. 2D does not require anything but to have

an image in ram..no loading is needed once loaded the first time. All those

frames of amin you speak of are loaded once then simply pointed to as needed

then a simple blit copy. NOT TAXING BY ANY MEANS! especially if you have

dedicated hardware to do it with. Theis is wher sony and Sega fall short.

They need to use the 3D HArdware to do 2D and it is not designed for the

really cool effects you can do wth a truw 2D engine. They can pull it off but its

alot more work and strain to the system.

 

2D is not nearly as complicated as you think. Any modern machine can do it and decent

enough for games like you mention on Saturn and PS1. My point is they are highly inefficeint

at it. They need to use 3D to draw 3D....sort of.

 

Hardware based 2D like the Jaguar is apple pie and hardly taxing to the OPL.

 

You have an object list for the Object Processor Logic or OPL. The object processor

reads that list. each obect in the list is a description of the object to be draw.

width , height, x and y posistion on screen...effects info and a pointer to the

address of the bitmap.

 

Trust me when I tell you, you only need to update the data pointer and the y position

each frame and that is not even a blink of an eye for the opl. Just look at the paralax

going on in both Trevor Mcfur and in Rayman. We are talking 24 bit RGB for Treavor.

 

That is nothing...you can double that and more with the OPL. It is that capable.

 

Software 2D is still not at all complicated. Calculate ONE address in your frame buffer.

Copy the data of the bitmap to the buffer one line at a time, the width of the image

till you have draw the height in lines. Even the older systems can deal with this.

 

Please tell me why that would tax a system? PS1 and Saturn, yes because they dont have

hardware specialized for it.

 

It is not at all as taxing as 3D. Dont let the look of a screen shot trick you to thinking

there is a lot of processing going on. That is not that case. 2D takes a bitmap and puts

it to a frame buffer. 3D calulates tons of matrix math for EVERY POINT of the 3d world.

Then it shades and textures and whathaveyou.

 

 

The Jaguar can and will easily meet and surpass the 2D stuff from either of those systems

thanks to the Blitter and the OPL. Two things you wont find inside a PS1 or a Saturn.

 

Bet you cant guess the one thing than CAN destroy the performance of the OPL?

 

Anyone? If you have been paying attention to this threadyou should certainly know by now...

 

 

Ill take a SWAG, the 68k

[Gorf]

Ill take a SWAG, the 68k

 

 

Ah, they do pay attention...

 

Yup, you just choked the 64 bit sytem to 16 bit accesses and the 26.whatever MHZ clock speed to

half that while the 68k has the bus. Now the OPL, has to share the bus with the higher priority 68k

and there goes all your high powered 64 bit throughput. Same for the 64 bit access of the Blitter

and GPU. In the Jaguar design of the Tom and Jerry chipset the 68k is the highest priority always.

Unless you turn it off, it is a total detriment to the system's performance.

 

(Psssst....if this is not an argument for a 64 bit system, I dont know what is... )

Edited June 6, 2007 by Gorf

[Atari5200]

I have to disagree with Duke 3d looking better than Quake. I have both for PC and Quake looks much better, at least in my opinion, but Duke 3d is more fun.

 

As for a SNES game looking better than a PS1 game, maybe 2d. The SNES was cartridge based as the PS1 was CD, as everybody knows, and 2d is more taxing on a system than 3d, which is why the PS1 sucked at 2d. With that being said, since the SNES was cartridge based, it didn't need to load each individual frame which the PS1's limited ram, had to do. The Saturn, with the ram cart, didn't have to worry about this and is why games like Marvel vs Street fighter, Vampire Savior, or X-men vs Street fighter are far superior to the PS1 versions. So for 2d games, maybe the SNES had some that could have looked or ran better than the PS1, but even that is a stretch.

 

lol...NO, not 2D either...Compare MK3 or Street Fighter Alpha on the systems... The PS didn't "suck" at 2D...it was only slightly not as good as the Saturn in the 2D dept... You really are over-exagerrating the Saturn 2D being better than the PS 2D...I can't believe you think the SNES does better 2D than the PS...lmao!! You must really be a Sony hater.

 

i beg to differ, have you played the games for each system? The PS1 doesn't even have tag on Marvel vs street fighter where the Saturn does because of the Ram cart. maybe if the Saturn did not make use of the Ram cart you would be right. Marvel vs Street fighter, X-men vs Street fighter are both near arcade perfect on the Saturn but far from on the PS1. Street Fighter Alpha II is also another one that is better on the Saturn.

 

2d has to load each frame of animation, think of it like a cartoon. each action is drawn, where as 3d it's not, you have the 3d model and it nothing changes, it's still the same polygons being animated, not redrawn every single time. Like a normal punch animation in 2d may have 4 or 5 different drawings of animation, each of these have to load for every character. You would probably understand this better if you had a Neo CD as this is one of the main drawbacks of the Neo CD is games like KOF have to load each characters animations into the RAM which makes doing team battles nearly unbearable. And the PS1 was not powerful enough to load the animations as it needed them from the disc.

 

Simple 2d games like adventure games and such, Yes the PS1 was fine, but for fighting games and games heavy on animations are very limited to the PS1's hardware and there is a BIG difference between these same games on the Saturn and PS1 regardless if you want to believe it or not.

 

So you're saying the Saturn version is so much better than the PS version because it has...tag? lol...Really, is tag that big a deal? I don't think so... The PS versions of these fighting games may have missed a frame of animation here and there, but really, graphics wise the Saturn and PS versions are nearly identical...You make it out to be that the Playstation is way behind the Saturn in 2D, when really that isn't the case!

 

ok i'm bowing out of this conversation after this post. OMG you have to be one of the most retarded people ever. Tag in Marvel vs street fighter IS the game, it's tag battle. Not single player battle as the PS1 version is. It's missing one of the most vital parts of the game and yet you ask if it's a big deal? An arcade port should be close the PS1 versions are event close, you are an idiot.

[Pete5125]

The thing about Jag/CD vs 32X/CD is almost every compariable game except maybe Doom was better done on 32X than the Jag, yet the 32X Virtua Racing was better than Checkerd Flag, Virtua Fighter was better than Fight For Life, Mortal Kombat2 better than Kasaumi Ninja.

 

The rest of the games are either comparable to the Jag or better....this hurts because its just a 16 bit Genesis with an extra 3D chip. Being that the Jag is a touted 64 bit system, then realy no 32 bit system (3DO, Saturn, PS1, and 32X), (24 Bit Neo Geo), or SNES/Genesis (16 bit games w/3D chip, Star Fox, Virtua Racing, Vector Man, Donkey Kong Country) should come out ww/ better looking or playing games. But, the Jag always would come in behind in the game department on most of these systems.

 

The 32x is the easiest System to compare games w/ because it was cartariage based and most games on the 32x have a compariable vs. on Jag

[Gregory DG]

The thing about Jag/CD vs 32X/CD is almost every compariable game except maybe Doom was better done on 32X than the Jag, yet the 32X Virtua Racing was better than Checkerd Flag, Virtua Fighter was better than Fight For Life, Mortal Kombat2 better than Kasaumi Ninja.

It all gets down to skilled programmers. Obviously if VF, VR, and MK2 were made for the Jag they'd be better than the Genesis versions.

 

Just compare Primal Rage, NBA Jam, Cannon Fodder, Dragon's Lair, Pitfall, Dragon: Bruce Lee Story, Theme Park, etc. and the Jaguar always looks better with bigger sprites, more colors, faster gameplay, etc.

[EmOneGarand]

The thing about Jag/CD vs 32X/CD is almost every compariable game except maybe Doom was better done on 32X than the Jag, yet the 32X Virtua Racing was better than Checkerd Flag, Virtua Fighter was better than Fight For Life, Mortal Kombat2 better than Kasaumi Ninja.

It all gets down to skilled programmers. Obviously if VF, VR, and MK2 were made for the Jag they'd be better than the Genesis versions.

 

Just compare Primal Rage, NBA Jam, Cannon Fodder, Dragon's Lair, Pitfall, Dragon: Bruce Lee Story, Theme Park, etc. and the Jaguar always looks better with bigger sprites, more colors, faster gameplay, etc.

Too bad Primal Rage on the JAG suffered from stunted sprites like the 3DO version... it shouldn't have been that unreasonable for the game to have had full sized sprites like the Saturn and PSX ports especially since it was on CD and not a cartridge.

[kevincal]

I have to disagree with Duke 3d looking better than Quake. I have both for PC and Quake looks much better, at least in my opinion, but Duke 3d is more fun.

 

As for a SNES game looking better than a PS1 game, maybe 2d. The SNES was cartridge based as the PS1 was CD, as everybody knows, and 2d is more taxing on a system than 3d, which is why the PS1 sucked at 2d. With that being said, since the SNES was cartridge based, it didn't need to load each individual frame which the PS1's limited ram, had to do. The Saturn, with the ram cart, didn't have to worry about this and is why games like Marvel vs Street fighter, Vampire Savior, or X-men vs Street fighter are far superior to the PS1 versions. So for 2d games, maybe the SNES had some that could have looked or ran better than the PS1, but even that is a stretch.

 

lol...NO, not 2D either...Compare MK3 or Street Fighter Alpha on the systems... The PS didn't "suck" at 2D...it was only slightly not as good as the Saturn in the 2D dept... You really are over-exagerrating the Saturn 2D being better than the PS 2D...I can't believe you think the SNES does better 2D than the PS...lmao!! You must really be a Sony hater.

 

i beg to differ, have you played the games for each system? The PS1 doesn't even have tag on Marvel vs street fighter where the Saturn does because of the Ram cart. maybe if the Saturn did not make use of the Ram cart you would be right. Marvel vs Street fighter, X-men vs Street fighter are both near arcade perfect on the Saturn but far from on the PS1. Street Fighter Alpha II is also another one that is better on the Saturn.

 

2d has to load each frame of animation, think of it like a cartoon. each action is drawn, where as 3d it's not, you have the 3d model and it nothing changes, it's still the same polygons being animated, not redrawn every single time. Like a normal punch animation in 2d may have 4 or 5 different drawings of animation, each of these have to load for every character. You would probably understand this better if you had a Neo CD as this is one of the main drawbacks of the Neo CD is games like KOF have to load each characters animations into the RAM which makes doing team battles nearly unbearable. And the PS1 was not powerful enough to load the animations as it needed them from the disc.

 

Simple 2d games like adventure games and such, Yes the PS1 was fine, but for fighting games and games heavy on animations are very limited to the PS1's hardware and there is a BIG difference between these same games on the Saturn and PS1 regardless if you want to believe it or not.

 

So you're saying the Saturn version is so much better than the PS version because it has...tag? lol...Really, is tag that big a deal? I don't think so... The PS versions of these fighting games may have missed a frame of animation here and there, but really, graphics wise the Saturn and PS versions are nearly identical...You make it out to be that the Playstation is way behind the Saturn in 2D, when really that isn't the case!

 

ok i'm bowing out of this conversation after this post. OMG you have to be one of the most retarded people ever. Tag in Marvel vs street fighter IS the game, it's tag battle. Not single player battle as the PS1 version is. It's missing one of the most vital parts of the game and yet you ask if it's a big deal? An arcade port should be close the PS1 versions are event close, you are an idiot.

 

Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one! And you are crossing the line big time calling me "one of the most retarded people ever" and "you are an idiot"... You are ignored, so don't bother trying to contact me.

Edited June 7, 2007 by kevincal

[+LS650]

Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one!

And nobody wants to hear it!

[Atariman]

Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one!

And nobody wants to hear it!

And they all stink

[Gorf]

Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one!

And nobody wants to hear it!

And they all stink

 

Some unfortunately dont think theirs does....if you get my whiff...er I mean drift....

 

 

(can this thread find yet another direction?)

Edited June 7, 2007 by Gorf

[Gunstar]

The thing about Jag/CD vs 32X/CD is almost every compariable game except maybe Doom was better done on 32X than the Jag, yet the 32X Virtua Racing was better than Checkerd Flag, Virtua Fighter was better than Fight For Life, Mortal Kombat2 better than Kasaumi Ninja.

It all gets down to skilled programmers. Obviously if VF, VR, and MK2 were made for the Jag they'd be better than the Genesis versions.

 

Just compare Primal Rage, NBA Jam, Cannon Fodder, Dragon's Lair, Pitfall, Dragon: Bruce Lee Story, Theme Park, etc. and the Jaguar always looks better with bigger sprites, more colors, faster gameplay, etc.

Too bad Primal Rage on the JAG suffered from stunted sprites like the 3DO version... it shouldn't have been that unreasonable for the game to have had full sized sprites like the Saturn and PSX ports especially since it was on CD and not a cartridge.

 

This is true. Blame it on merely lazy/sloppy/underfunded development, which once again uses the 68000 as the main processor with the RISCs used merely as support. I read an article on this game when it was being developed for all four: Jaguar, 3DO, Saturn and Playstation, and the programmers commented on how similiar the 3DO and Jaguar arcitectures were, (whatever that meant), and how on the 3DO and Jaguar the fighters were about 2/3 size. Of course the Jaguar is bottlenecked using the 68000 as the main processor, once again making it seem the Jaguar couldn't handle the larger sprites and animation, which it could, just as well, at least, as the Saturn and PSX versions, if the RISCs were used to their potential and the 68000 turned off after boot-strapping. But I'm not even sure that the 3DO version couldn't have been better too. Sure it's ARM chip is only running somewhere in the 'teens like the Jaguar's 68000, but it is RISC 32-bit. But the 3DO is a whole other system that never saw it's full potential either. Both the Jaguar&JagCD and 3DO could have competed easily with the Saturn and Playstation witht he proper support, at least keeping up with Saturn&PSX 1st and second gen. titles, before Saturn and PSX development eventually would surpass 3DO&Jag limits...as far as we know...

[+pboland]

A saw that somebody wrote in passing about, "If you could flashback the Jaguar". I believe it was written to show how the Jaguar is 64 bits vs. 32 bits. That aside, is it possible (economical) to "Flashback" the Jaguar? I guess it would be like when Sega released the Genesis 3. I remember when the Genesis 3 came out it was priced at $49.95. If Atari could re-release the Jaguar (or a new system based on that hardware) at that price with new CD base games that take real advantage of the Jaguar's power, that might make it in the market place. Now atari would have to cut some corners to make it cheap enough to get to a price point of under $50.00. Maybe, have no cartridge port? Possibly a new controller without the keypad?

 

I bring this up because, it sounds like there is some kind of new dev tools being made for the Jag? Is this correct? If it is correct, I would think atari would pay good money for those tools if they saw potential in a repackaged system being put into the market place. Maybe look something like a cross between a Genesis 3 and a Jag Duo?

 

 

I know this is all pie in the sky stuff, and it will never happen, but I will put it out there anyway.

[Gorf]

A saw that somebody wrote in passing about, "If you could flashback the Jaguar". I believe it was written to show how the Jaguar is 64 bits vs. 32 bits. That aside, is it possible (economical) to "Flashback" the Jaguar? I guess it would be like when Sega released the Genesis 3. I remember when the Genesis 3 came out it was priced at $49.95. If Atari could re-release the Jaguar (or a new system based on that hardware) at that price with new CD base games that take real advantage of the Jaguar's power, that might make it in the market place. Now atari would have to cut some corners to make it cheap enough to get to a price point of under $50.00. Maybe, have no cartridge port? Possibly a new controller without the keypad?

 

I bring this up because, it sounds like there is some kind of new dev tools being made for the Jag? Is this correct? If it is correct, I would think atari would pay good money for those tools if they saw potential in a repackaged system being put into the market place. Maybe look something like a cross between a Genesis 3 and a Jag Duo?

 

 

I know this is all pie in the sky stuff, and it will never happen, but I will put it out there anyway.

 

 

Atari WONT be making JAguar and the toolsI am making , they could not afford.

[BuddyBuddies]

A saw that somebody wrote in passing about, "If you could flashback the Jaguar". I believe it was written to show how the Jaguar is 64 bits vs. 32 bits. That aside, is it possible (economical) to "Flashback" the Jaguar? I guess it would be like when Sega released the Genesis 3. I remember when the Genesis 3 came out it was priced at $49.95. If Atari could re-release the Jaguar (or a new system based on that hardware) at that price with new CD base games that take real advantage of the Jaguar's power, that might make it in the market place. Now atari would have to cut some corners to make it cheap enough to get to a price point of under $50.00. Maybe, have no cartridge port? Possibly a new controller without the keypad?

 

I bring this up because, it sounds like there is some kind of new dev tools being made for the Jag? Is this correct? If it is correct, I would think atari would pay good money for those tools if they saw potential in a repackaged system being put into the market place. Maybe look something like a cross between a Genesis 3 and a Jag Duo?

 

 

I know this is all pie in the sky stuff, and it will never happen, but I will put it out there anyway.

are you the guy (Phil Boland) ,the one who made the jaguar arcade stick,i would really like one of them controllers if you ever make them again i would be very interested in a few of them actually thanks buddybuddies

[ovalbugmann]

Hey Buddy!, I just inquired about the difference between the Goat Stores' Jaguar Jamma standard & Jaguar Jamma arcade sticks and whether they are available now-and yes they are available now, and Dan Loosen replied but didn't really tell me the difference between the two since there is no pic for the arcade version only a pic for the standard version.

 

However, he said I may want to wait to order one because he will be unvailing a new Jaguar Arcade gaming stick at the Midwest Gaming Classic and that they would be available shortly after the show.

 

Yeah, I've been using the Jaguar standard controller & Pro-controller forever and just picked up a VD3D Flight Stick, and now I want to try a heavy duty arcade stick with arcade buttons, for games you can't use with the Flight Stick. So that I have a choice of controllers to use and not just the standard & pro originals.

Edited June 8, 2007 by ovalbugmann

[Gorf]

Besides, if Jag Too is ever produced by me, it will be a hand held and a console.

[+LS650]

I've thought of buying a Jamma stick. They look awesome and apparently the build quality is terrific, but the problem is that so many games use the keypad for different functions. I wonder if it's possible to make a pass-through Y-connector so that you could have both a Jamma and a regular controller in port 1..?

[+pboland]

A saw that somebody wrote in passing about, "If you could flashback the Jaguar". I believe it was written to show how the Jaguar is 64 bits vs. 32 bits. That aside, is it possible (economical) to "Flashback" the Jaguar? I guess it would be like when Sega released the Genesis 3. I remember when the Genesis 3 came out it was priced at $49.95. If Atari could re-release the Jaguar (or a new system based on that hardware) at that price with new CD base games that take real advantage of the Jaguar's power, that might make it in the market place. Now atari would have to cut some corners to make it cheap enough to get to a price point of under $50.00. Maybe, have no cartridge port? Possibly a new controller without the keypad?

 

I bring this up because, it sounds like there is some kind of new dev tools being made for the Jag? Is this correct? If it is correct, I would think atari would pay good money for those tools if they saw potential in a repackaged system being put into the market place. Maybe look something like a cross between a Genesis 3 and a Jag Duo?

 

 

I know this is all pie in the sky stuff, and it will never happen, but I will put it out there anyway.

are you the guy (Phil Boland) ,the one who made the jaguar arcade stick,i would really like one of them controllers if you ever make them again i would be very interested in a few of them actually thanks buddybuddies

 

Yes, I am the same Phil Boland that made the jaguar arcade stick. Unfortunately I no longer have my jaguar stuff. That controller was pretty cool, but I do not have the parts to make anymore.