classic battle atari 8bit vs commodore 64

[Zap!]

So... your first post is a necrobump of a thread that's been dormant for 8 years?

 

Looks like it was his last post too.

[Kyle22]

I have always appreciated the Atari vs Commie war because it causes programmers to try to out-do each other. It brings IMPROVEMENT to BOTH systems.

 

This is all about programming your computer to the max to exploit all of its advantages, use hardware upgrades, and so forth.

 

I view it as a constructive thing. I want to see the latest Commie killing game or demo. Maybe the Commies will attempt to top ours.

 

It expands creativity.

[Mclaneinc]

I like the competition but not the epic flamewars, there's always someone who takes it all far too seriously and starts the rudeness and then its fights all around. I just like to see a bit of friendly rivalry which as Kyle says is good...

 

As I always say, go where the good stuff is, look all around there's great productions on all formats..

[adam1977]

Exactly my thoughts too, my mate had a C64 and his brother an 800XL, both systems have their advantages and disadvantages. The only thing that upset me a bit at the time was the fact that hardly any software was released for my 800XL, whereas the C64 seemingly had everything; both are great computers though

[ClausB]

So... your first post is a necrobump of a thread that's been dormant for 8 years?

I don't see what's wrong with bumping an old thread. Often it's interesting to read old posts - lots of good info and opinions from past members. Also I prefer to have everything related to one topic in one thread, rather than scattered over many threads, some of which are just rehashes.

[emkay]

One thing is to adore with the C64: In that community there is always someone doing stuff for the machine, just by having it there. If it is useful or not, the other users may decide.

[Mclaneinc]

One thing is to adore with the C64: In that community there is always someone doing stuff for the machine, just by having it there. If it is useful or not, the other users may decide.

 

There's also folk doing stuff on the Atari but news sites like Indie News are only starting to take notice of the new stuff, they always deviated to machines like the Spectrum, C64 and Amiga mainly..

 

The C64 community also make a big thing of new stuff which is why you hear me say that the Atari community can be too reserved sometimes..Look at CSDb, a site dedicated to scene releases with a healthy following. Its not always a great place to go as there's issues on there BUT its the fact it exists. We need the same on the Atari, something where new hacks, releases, trainers, cracks etc get the attention they deserve..

[Level42]

Atari 8 bit is better at the following points:

 

-Custom VLSI Chip quality (they don’t burn)

-overall build quality

-keyboard

-design (looks)

-speed

-colours

-sound (POKEY)

-BASIC

-Floppy Handling / DOS

-Floppy Speed

-convenience of connecting peripherals (SIO)

-1000S of cartridge titles

-best classic arcade conversions

 

The C64 is better at the following points:

- sprites

 

That’s it.

 

I know many will say SID, but I can’t stand it’s muffled and forced sound, plus it sucks at effect sounds and has one channel less.

[youxia]

The C64 is better at the following points:

- sprites

 

That’s it.

 

Such objective posts are the reason why these threads never really work :/

[Zap!]

Atari 8 bit is better at the following points:

 

-Custom VLSI Chip quality (they don’t burn)

-overall build quality

-keyboard

-design (looks)

-speed

-colours

-sound (POKEY)

-BASIC

-Floppy Handling / DOS

-Floppy Speed

-convenience of connecting peripherals (SIO)

-1000S of cartridge titles

-best classic arcade conversions

 

The C64 is better at the following points:

- sprites

 

That’s it.

 

I know many will say SID, but I can’t stand it’s muffled and forced sound, plus it sucks at effect sounds and has one channel less.

 

Ok, I've got a serious question then, and I am in no way trying to start a flame war since I have and like both systems. The question is, if the Atari is better in so many categories, then why do the vast majority (if not all) of 80's C64 games look and sound better than the same Atari version? Just look at Ghostbusters for example.

 

 

[emkay]

Particular Ghostbuster is in some cases nicer than the C64 version. I always loved NOT to have the huge border. The game played nicely , everything there... till the 48K limit. Even the tune was catchy.

[Zap!]

Particular Ghostbuster is in some cases nicer than the C64 version. I always loved NOT to have the huge border. The game played nicely , everything there... till the 48K limit. Even the tune was catchy.

 

Perhaps the biggest difference that I was looking at was when you are catching the ghosts. That's where the C64 port really shines. It's also missing some cool voices on the Atari port. Other than that though, the Atari version does indeed hold its own.

[_The Doctor__]

Ghostbusters like many games was a better experience on the Atari. The Commodore as usual restricted the screen size and seemed to fight to get the job done. The music seemed out of place on the Commodore and just wasn't fluid... The only thing that might have needed a touch up on the Atari was the two guys getting the ghost at the buildings and the catch box beam was too dense, it needed to be more electrical jagged not so compressed...

Music and sound goes to the Atari

Screen size goes to the Atari

Game play edge Atari

Main graphics edge Atari

Catch ray color edge Atari

Catch box ray shape...Commodore

Back pack edge Commodore

 

On the fence with it shouting Ghostbusters all time. I'd like that to happen every once in a while. It loses it's charm. I didn't remember that in the very first Commodore version I had.

 

The Atari can easily have the sample trigger added rather than waiting for you to do it yourself. (I think it should happen sparingly if someone were to tinker)

The Backpack deal was an oddity, in going for more color they lost the signature look. Better off doing the full jump suit with pack than the odd two color choice they made. That is something to fix. The catch Ray color was better on the Atari.

 

The Commodores player look and ray shape are closer to the look of the movie. Less was more in that case...but ray did not have that energy light like color. The rest of it was disjointed and out of place. It seemed clunky some how. Was it the music or pausing for sample play causing this. I don't know.

 

All in all very similar. It simply got played on the Atari more often than the Commodore sitting next to it. That's all I noticed

 

I don't want a run down of every game to follow as these threads have played out a million times over the years. I think it's all been said.

 

Time to watch The Matrix Movies on my Atari... classic!

Edited October 28, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[Gunstar]

 

Ok, I've got a serious question then, and I am in no way trying to start a flame war since I have and like both systems. The question is, if the Atari is better in so many categories, then why do the vast majority (if not all) of 80's C64 games look and sound better than the same Atari version? Just look at Ghostbusters for example.

 

 

While which versions have better graphics, gameplay or both is often very subjective, like in your example here, really the only difference is a different game-window screen ratio; and which is preferred can come down to what you are used to, etc. Plus, it depends (at least with Atari) whether PAL or NTSC what it's screen ratio is too. And once again comes the SID vs. POKEY which is really subjective too, and again, usually depending on what your used to seems better to you.

 

But all that aside, it is true that there are a lot (certainly not even a majority though) of C64 games that look, play and sound better than the Atari counterparts, from the latter half of the 80's.. This is not the Atari's fault. It usually comes down to less of a market for Atari than Commodore and hence less time and effort devoted to Atari versions being the best they can be. Quick, lazy ports of Commodore versions, if we got them at all.

 

But something I noticed when I got a C64 was that even though a lot of games looked more colorful, and sometimes more detailed, the game play fell totally flat compared to the Atari versions. I realized I didn't have it so bad after all, with some ports that didn't look quite as good on my Atari, as the games were simply more fun to play on the Atari, whether smoother animation and control, or faster and more responsive, I'd rather take the drop in colors. And yes, the SID sound seemed worse to my POKEY attuned ears.

 

But to answer your question, assuming for the moment your assertion that C64 games look and sound better

[Zap!]

Ghostbusters like many games was a better experience on the Atari. The Commodore as usual restricted the screen size and seemed to fight to get the job done. The music seemed out of place on the Commodore and just wasn't fluid... The only thing that might have needed a touch up on the Atari was the two guys getting the ghost at the buildings and the catch box beam was too dense, it needed to be more electrical jagged not so compressed...

Music and sound goes to the Atari

Screen size goes to the Atari

Game play edge Atari

Main graphics edge Atari

Catch ray color edge Atari

Catch box ray shape...Commodore

Back pack edge Commodore

 

On the fence with it shouting Ghostbusters all time. I'd like that to happen every once in a while. It loses it's charm. I didn't remember that in the very first Commodore version I had.

 

The Atari can easily have the sample trigger added rather than waiting for you to do it yourself. (I think it should happen sparingly if someone were to tinker)

The Backpack deal was an oddity, in going for more color they lost the signature look. Better off doing the full jump suit with pack than the odd two color choice they made. That is something to fix. The catch Ray color was better on the Atari.

 

The Commodores player look and ray shape are closer to the look of the movie. Less was more in that case...but ray did not have that energy light like color. The rest of it was disjointed and out of place. It seemed clunky some how. Was it the music or pausing for sample play causing this. I don't know.

 

All in all very similar. It simply got played on the Atari more often than the Commodore sitting next to it. That's all I noticed

 

I don't want a run down of every game to follow as these threads have played out a million times over the years. I think it's all been said.

 

Time to watch The Matrix Movies on my Atari... classic!

 

 

A few other things:

 

1) The Ghostbusters symbol that you move around looks quite a bit better on the C64.

 

2) I get what you're saying with it shouting "Ghostbusters" all the time, but Atari is also missing the laughing, which sounded great.

 

3) Marshmallow Man at the end looks way better on the C64.

 

All moot points for me though, since I like the SMS best (except where are the voices, arrgh!).

[emkay]

A few other things:

 

1) The Ghostbusters symbol that you move around looks quite a bit better on the C64.

 

2) I get what you're saying with it shouting "Ghostbusters" all the time, but Atari is also missing the laughing, which sounded great.

 

3) Marshmallow Man at the end looks way better on the C64.

 

All moot points for me though, since I like the SMS best (except where are the voices, arrgh!).

You simply chose the wrong game for a comparison.

btw: The missing samples were missing by the fact that they made most games compatible to 48K machines.

[EnderDude]

 

 

A few other things:

 

1) The Ghostbusters symbol that you move around looks quite a bit better on the C64.

 

2) I get what you're saying with it shouting "Ghostbusters" all the time, but Atari is also missing the laughing, which sounded great.

 

3) Marshmallow Man at the end looks way better on the C64.

 

All moot points for me though, since I like the SMS best (except where are the voices, arrgh!).

You know the old LGR intro theme, Vaxeen 4u? That's a Pokey song, not a SID one. Also, I would consider a 4-bit volume control over the ADSR the SID because ADSR isn't too friendly with weird volume patterns. The SID also has a problem with resetting the ADSR, where it needs time to reset them, or else the note will cling onto the ADSR configuration of the last note. The route most composers have done was to make the entire speed of the piece slower to compensate for this. However, Rob actually doesn't reset the ADSR values for some instruments, because it isn't necessary for some of them to decay, so he left those instruments with a volume that stays the same. The fastest note that you can play (if you plan to reset the ADSR) is the intro of the song for Sanxion:

Edited October 28, 2018 by EnderDude

[Zap!]

You simply chose the wrong game for a comparison.

 

I was thinking about picking Super Zaxxon, but Ghostbusters seemed more fun.

[EnderDude]

How about Pac-Man Jr. ?

 

 

I was thinking about picking Super Zaxxon, but Ghostbusters seemed more fun.

[Zap!]

How about Pac-Man Jr. ?

 

 

I hadn't played those versions, so I had to look them up. Crazy how the C64 version didn't scroll. Even the 2600 port did. Perhaps they saved the space by adding the intermissions.

[fujidude]

 

Ok, I've got a serious question then, and I am in no way trying to start a flame war since I have and like both systems. The question is, if the Atari is better in so many categories, then why do the vast majority (if not all) of 80's C64 games look and sound better than the same Atari version? Just look at Ghostbusters for example.

 

 

 

Uhm... sprites! That's it.

[TMR]

[Peers nervously into necrobumped thread with dodgy-looking title]

 

Oh dear Rassilon...!

 

Most of my week is going to be spent concentrating on C64 demo code for X'2018, why doesn't everyone just work as a group and put something together for Silly Venture rather than grind over the same, tired old ground for the Nth time...?

[Mclaneinc]

[Peers nervously into necrobumped thread with dodgy-looking title]

 

Oh dear Rassilon...!

 

Most of my week is going to be spent concentrating on C64 demo code for X'2018, why doesn't everyone just work as a group and put something together for Silly Venture rather than grind over the same, tired old ground for the Nth time...?

 

Agreed X a million...

[popmilo]

[Peers nervously into necrobumped thread with dodgy-looking title]

 

Oh dear Rassilon...!

 

Most of my week is going to be spent concentrating on C64 demo code for X'2018, why doesn't everyone just work as a group and put something together for Silly Venture rather than grind over the same, tired old ground for the Nth time...?

Similar here... Last two months spent in active c64 demo development with team of good people.

I don't see any reason same can not be done in A8 land. So as soon as this weekend passes it's back to A8 with new games in progress....

Just do more atari stuff and this vs comparison won't be that important then...

[carlsson]

Thousands of cartridges for the Atari 8-bit computers? While I never really got a good grip on how many cartridge releases there were, it sounds like a very huge number. Or are you counting every game released in XEX format as a cartridge?!?

 

Atarimania has a little over 400 entries for cartridge format, which seems like more adequate number given the C64 has some 300+ titles. Perhaps Atarimania is missing out on 50% so it would be closer to 600 but still far from thousands.

Edited October 29, 2018 by carlsson