XE versus 800XL Video?

[+Larry]

I have recently taken a modded 800XL out of retirement and put it back into service. It now works fine, but compared to my XE's, this video/color is quite "washed-out." I have to turn the color boost on my capture card settings way up, and it is still not right. Yes, a very well-known problem, but I put Super Video 2.0 (not 2.1) into this XL, so I was quite surprised. Since I did this years ago, I really don't remember a lot about it, but I did "piggyback" the resistors per the original Atari Classics article. It looks like it's correct, but I'm going to rip it out anyway and redo it with the correct (single resistor) values just to be sure. I never noticed this issue before, because I didn't install the chroma resistor/line when I originally did the mod (used it with a monochrome monitor). This time, I'll go ahead and put in 2.1 also.

 

I don't have much experience with 800XL's. I originally used an 800 until the 130XE's came out, and have used XE's pretty much exclusively until now. Is this a common problem -- even with SV 2.1 (which deals some with saturation)? Do 800XL's still have washed-out color compared to XE's? I know that my "Clear Pic 2000, 1200XL looks great -- easily the equal of a 130XE. Perhaps this is a problem unique to this XL.

 

-Larry

[Rybags]

I found that my XL had washed out colour after I did one of the Super Video mods.

 

IIRC, the general consensus is that the A8s video quality got progressively worse. The 130XE tends to be reasonably sharp, but is pretty bad so far as interference goes.

[Bryan]

I found that my XL had washed out colour after I did one of the Super Video mods.

 

IIRC, the general consensus is that the A8s video quality got progressively worse. The 130XE tends to be reasonably sharp, but is pretty bad so far as interference goes.

 

The problem is that the video circuitry is messed up on a couple levels. The 75-ohm drivers were all wrong, but fixing them produces a stronger signal than was probably intended. These are the mods I recommend:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=41580

[+Larry]

I found that my XL had washed out colour after I did one of the Super Video mods.

 

IIRC, the general consensus is that the A8s video quality got progressively worse. The 130XE tends to be reasonably sharp, but is pretty bad so far as interference goes.

 

The problem is that the video circuitry is messed up on a couple levels. The 75-ohm drivers were all wrong, but fixing them produces a stronger signal than was probably intended. These are the mods I recommend:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=41580

 

Hi Bryan-

Thanks for the info and link. When I am re-doing the offending XL, I'll give this a try!

-Larry

[+Larry]

Follow-up:

 

I ripped the original SuperVideo 2.0 out of the XL and installed the correct values of single resistors. The display looked absolutely the same, so I must have done it correct originally. While I had the "piggy-back" resistors out, I did the mods as suggested by Bryan. As he indicated, it is less complex, but gave the same results on my XL as SV2.0. I would say that adding the 1K resistor from C55 to R58 (Step 4 in the Atari Classics SV2.1 section -- page 9) did improve the color saturation a bit.

 

But on my 800XL, the step that made the most difference in the chroma saturation was Step 3 in the SV2.1 section. Replacing the 2K resistor with a 2.7K. I didn't have any 2.7K resistors, so I used a parallel pair (piggy-back) of 5.6K, 1/4-watt resistors. I checked these with a meter and got 2750 ohms -- close enough! It improved the saturation enough that I could cut the color gain on my capture card by about 25%. At this level, it looks like my XE's.

 

It is now quite acceptable, and of course, immensely improved from the terrible stock video that this XL had. Hope this helps someone else.

 

-Larry

[Urchlay]

Were you testing only with a capture card, or did you try with a monitor too? Also, were you using composite or s-video (chroma/luma)?

 

I did the Supervideo 2.1 on an 800XL recently, using a Commodore 1702 in chroma/luma mode as the display... After completing the SV 2.0 part of the mod, I hooked it up and was impressed (looks even better than the 1200XL Clearpic I have). I went ahead and did the 2.1 part, but it didn't seem to change anything (still looks great, but not noticeably better than the 2.0).

 

I never did get around to adding the composite-disable switch (I left it permanently disabled), so maybe the 2.1's improvement over 2.0 would have been visible with composite video instead of s-video.

 

I *still* think I prefer the video of a stock Atari 800 over even the SV 2.1 on the 800XL... but at this point that's probably more of a personal preference than anything I could quantify.

 

No Atari 8-bit looks good on my capture card, no matter what I do

[Beetle]

If you use Chroma/Luma, adding that switch is well worth the work. Image quality is noticably better with the composite mixing off.

[Urchlay]

If you use Chroma/Luma, adding that switch is well worth the work. Image quality is noticably better with the composite mixing off.

 

That's why I left the composite mixing permanently disabled... don't need composite (right now anyway), and didn't want to make a new hole in the case for the switch.

 

Later on I'll probably dremel out some new holes in the case, add the composite switch, a standard RCA jack for composite output, a 1/8" headphone jack for the audio, and a modern S-video jack. Also I'll be doing a 4-in-1 OS and some sort of multiple BASIC, so I'll need switches for those.

[Beetle]

That's why I left the composite mixing permanently disabled...

 

Or that way, just like i did it

[+Larry]

Were you testing only with a capture card, or did you try with a monitor too? Also, were you using composite or s-video (chroma/luma)?

 

I did the Supervideo 2.1 on an 800XL recently, using a Commodore 1702 in chroma/luma mode as the display... After completing the SV 2.0 part of the mod, I hooked it up and was impressed (looks even better than the 1200XL Clearpic I have). I went ahead and did the 2.1 part, but it didn't seem to change anything (still looks great, but not noticeably better than the 2.0).

 

I never did get around to adding the composite-disable switch (I left it permanently disabled), so maybe the 2.1's improvement over 2.0 would have been visible with composite video instead of s-video.

 

I *still* think I prefer the video of a stock Atari 800 over even the SV 2.1 on the 800XL... but at this point that's probably more of a personal preference than anything I could quantify.

 

No Atari 8-bit looks good on my capture card, no matter what I do

 

Hi Urchlay-

 

No, I only use a video card (All-in-Wonder) with the S-Video input. I've had lots of monitors, including 1802's, but this AIW setup is the best I've ever had. Maybe this 800XL was particularly ugly. I just have not looked at enough 800XL's to say whether this one was typical or not. BTW, I did not do the CV switch or disable. Next time I have it opened up, I'll add that.

 

Here are a few screen shots of the finished SuperVideo XL, a stock XE, and an XE with the SuperVideo mods. Sorry, but I didn't have very good success with trying to save the screenshots as .jpg pics. They kept coming out very dark, so I zipped the (larger) .bmp files.

 

 

 

-Larry

[tjlazer]

Follow-up:

 

I would say that adding the 1K resistor from C55 to R58 (Step 4 in the Atari Classics SV2.1 section -- page 9) did improve the color saturation a bit.

 

-Larry

 

I just did this mod and tested the video at each stage on a Commodore 1702 monitor with separate chroma/luma. This last step did absolutely nothing so I did not bother. In fact the most noticeable step was removing C56...

 

My video is a lot better so I am happy!