What Stella Type do I use for a bB program made in 2005?

[+Random Terrain]

I went to take a look at the test game I was working on back in September 29, 2005:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77015

 

It looks all screwed up in Stella now, so it must require a certain Type under Game Properties. Does anyone know what Type I should use for a bB program made in September of 2005?

 

 

Thanks.

[SeaGtGruff]

I went to take a look at the test game I was working on back in September 29, 2005:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77015

 

It looks all screwed up in Stella now, so it must require a certain Type under Game Properties. Does anyone know what Type I should use for a bB program made in September of 2005?

 

 

Thanks.

Unless it uses some kind of bankswitching, you shouldn't have to specify any special type. I don't think I had posted my E7 M-Network bankswitching mods yet in September 2005 (they were made to bB v0.35), so any bB game you worked on back then would have had to be either 2K or 4K, unless you were customizing bB yourself. Besides, I don't think I ever saw anyone post anything they made using my E7 mods, so I was probably the only one using them. So the type should just be 2K or 4K, depending on the ROM size.

 

Michael

 

PS-- On the other hand, if you're trying to *recompile* and then run a game you were working on back then, then you'll probably have all sorts of issues caused by changes between the different bB versions. And if you *haven't* recompiled it, then maybe the bugs were always there but you don't remember them clearly because it's been almost 2 years ago?

Edited August 15, 2007 by SeaGtGruff

[+Random Terrain]

Unless it uses some kind of bankswitching, you shouldn't have to specify any special type. I don't think I had posted my E7 M-Network bankswitching mods yet in September 2005 (they were made to bB v0.35), so any bB game you worked on back then would have had to be either 2K or 4K, unless you were customizing bB yourself. Besides, I don't think I ever saw anyone post anything they made using my E7 mods, so I was probably the only one using them. So the type should just be 2K or 4K, depending on the ROM size.

Thanks. I wonder if something in Stella changed or maybe I didn't use Stella then? No matter what I try, that test game flickers and the maze is half-way off the bottom of the screen with the score at the top. I just used the normal bB back then without doing anything special, so I don't know what the problem is. I guess I need to install the other emulator since that's what I probably used in 2005.

[+batari]

PS-- On the other hand, if you're trying to *recompile* and then run a game you were working on back then, then you'll probably have all sorts of issues caused by changes between the different bB versions. And if you *haven't* recompiled it, then maybe the bugs were always there but you don't remember them clearly because it's been almost 2 years ago?

If you're trying to compile old code, use "set legacy 0.35" at the beginning of your code and see if that fixes things.

[+batari]

Unless it uses some kind of bankswitching, you shouldn't have to specify any special type. I don't think I had posted my E7 M-Network bankswitching mods yet in September 2005 (they were made to bB v0.35), so any bB game you worked on back then would have had to be either 2K or 4K, unless you were customizing bB yourself. Besides, I don't think I ever saw anyone post anything they made using my E7 mods, so I was probably the only one using them. So the type should just be 2K or 4K, depending on the ROM size.

Thanks. I wonder if something in Stella changed or maybe I didn't use Stella then? No matter what I try, that test game flickers and the maze is half-way off the bottom of the screen with the score at the top. I just used the normal bB back then without doing anything special, so I don't know what the problem is. I guess I need to install the other emulator since that's what I probably used in 2005.

What Stella version are you using now? So far those old binaries work for me, but we might not be using the same version.

[SeaGtGruff]

Unless it uses some kind of bankswitching, you shouldn't have to specify any special type. I don't think I had posted my E7 M-Network bankswitching mods yet in September 2005 (they were made to bB v0.35), so any bB game you worked on back then would have had to be either 2K or 4K, unless you were customizing bB yourself. Besides, I don't think I ever saw anyone post anything they made using my E7 mods, so I was probably the only one using them. So the type should just be 2K or 4K, depending on the ROM size.

Thanks. I wonder if something in Stella changed or maybe I didn't use Stella then? No matter what I try, that test game flickers and the maze is half-way off the bottom of the screen with the score at the top. I just used the normal bB back then without doing anything special, so I don't know what the problem is. I guess I need to install the other emulator since that's what I probably used in 2005.

Stella has definitely changed since then (if you're using the newest version of Stella). But it probably should be more sensitive to going over the cycles, rather than less sensitive. What I mean is, when I was first working on "Reventure," it was flickering like crazy in z26, but not in Stella (I think, unless it was the other way around), so I had no idea I was going over the cycles and rolling the screen, until people told me that it was flickering. That was before I realized that I didn't need to keep doing the playfield drawing commands during every frame-- instead, I could just draw the playfield once and then leave it alone. So it might be that your game was flickering and rolling back then, but you couldn't tell it because the older version of Stella wasn't emulating things like screen roll as stringently as it should have been.

 

Michael

[+Random Terrain]

If you're trying to compile old code, use "set legacy 0.35" at the beginning of your code and see if that fixes things.

Nope, I'm using the bin files I made back then in this thread:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77015

 

 

What Stella version are you using now? So far those old binaries work for me, but we might not be using the same version.

Since I have a new computer, I'm slowly downloading and reinstalling the things I need. The version I am using now is Stella 2.3.5.

 

 

Stella has definitely changed since then (if you're using the newest version of Stella). But it probably should be more sensitive to going over the cycles, rather than less sensitive. What I mean is, when I was first working on "Reventure," it was flickering like crazy in z26, but not in Stella (I think, unless it was the other way around), so I had no idea I was going over the cycles and rolling the screen, until people told me that it was flickering. That was before I realized that I didn't need to keep doing the playfield drawing commands during every frame-- instead, I could just draw the playfield once and then leave it alone. So it might be that your game was flickering and rolling back then, but you couldn't tell it because the older version of Stella wasn't emulating things like screen roll as stringently as it should have been.

OK, that might be the problem then. It's nice to know that once I start using the latest version of bB within the next month or two that Stella will act more like a real Atari and I will be more likely to catch problems early in case anyone tries my possible future games on a real Atari.

[+batari]

I just checked, and it looks like the only time you ever exceed your cycle quota is when drawing a new screen. Once that's done, the scanline count stablizes again. On real hardware, I'd expect no more than a screen roll and the game should return to normal. If it's not returning to normal in Stella, it's probably improper emulation.

 

EDIT: Maybe Stella is "detecting" PAL?

Edited August 16, 2007 by batari

[SeaGtGruff]

EDIT: Maybe Stella is "detecting" PAL?

I was wondering the same thing, or maybe it's *set* to PAL.

 

RT, does the enemy look green or purple? If it looks green, then Stella is using the NTSC palette. If it looks purple, then Stella is using the PAL palette.

 

I see a steady 260 lines in z26; I guess I never saw the count when a new screen was being drawn. Anyway, 260 lines is slightly off, but it shouldn't cause flickering or rolling, so something else is going on. Stella 2.3.5 auto-detects most everything, but you can try setting specific properties:

 

Video Settings -- What are you using here? I'm using Software for the Renderer, and Fullscreen mode is *un*checked.

 

Game Properties -- Set the Cartridge Type to 4K, set the Display Format to NTSC, XStart 0, Width 160, YStart 34, and Height 210.

 

After you save those settings, use Reload ROM to see if it makes a difference.

 

Michael

[+Random Terrain]

EDIT: Maybe Stella is "detecting" PAL?

I was wondering the same thing, or maybe it's *set* to PAL.

 

RT, does the enemy look green or purple? If it looks green, then Stella is using the NTSC palette. If it looks purple, then Stella is using the PAL palette.

 

I see a steady 260 lines in z26; I guess I never saw the count when a new screen was being drawn. Anyway, 260 lines is slightly off, but it shouldn't cause flickering or rolling, so something else is going on. Stella 2.3.5 auto-detects most everything, but you can try setting specific properties:

 

Video Settings -- What are you using here? I'm using Software for the Renderer, and Fullscreen mode is *un*checked.

 

Game Properties -- Set the Cartridge Type to 4K, set the Display Format to NTSC, XStart 0, Width 160, YStart 34, and Height 210.

 

After you save those settings, use Reload ROM to see if it makes a difference.

All of that stuff was the same, except the default Height was 250. After I set it to 210, the test game worked! Thanks, that fixed it! This is now working fine:

 

ruins_y2005m10d01e06.bin

[SeaGtGruff]

the default Height was 250. After I set it to 210, the test game worked!

I've usually seen 210 lines for the height, but I've also noticed that it gets set to 250 at various times-- probably if Stella thinks the game is PAL. 262 (NTSC) minus 210 equals 52 lines, whereas 250 plus 52 equals 302 lines-- which is close to 312 (PAL). And if the window is set to 320x240 resolution, then 250 is greater than the window's height, which might be why the display was acting wonky.

 

Michael

[+stephena]

EDIT: Maybe Stella is "detecting" PAL?

I was wondering the same thing, or maybe it's *set* to PAL.

 

RT, does the enemy look green or purple? If it looks green, then Stella is using the NTSC palette. If it looks purple, then Stella is using the PAL palette.

 

I see a steady 260 lines in z26; I guess I never saw the count when a new screen was being drawn. Anyway, 260 lines is slightly off, but it shouldn't cause flickering or rolling, so something else is going on. Stella 2.3.5 auto-detects most everything, but you can try setting specific properties:

 

Video Settings -- What are you using here? I'm using Software for the Renderer, and Fullscreen mode is *un*checked.

 

Game Properties -- Set the Cartridge Type to 4K, set the Display Format to NTSC, XStart 0, Width 160, YStart 34, and Height 210.

 

After you save those settings, use Reload ROM to see if it makes a difference.

All of that stuff was the same, except the default Height was 250. After I set it to 210, the test game worked! Thanks, that fixed it! This is now working fine:

 

ruins_y2005m10d01e06.bin

Sorry that I'm only seeing this thread now; I could have saved you some time. It's likely that there were some properties saved somewhere that were causing problems. I suggest to delete all 'stella.pro' and 'user.pro' files you have and just use the defaults. That's what I'm doing here with your ROM, and on my 'virgin' system (ie, I've never used this ROM before so I don't have any properties for it), everything works fine.

 

I suspect that you had a properties entry somewhere that identified this ROM as PAL, which will override the auto-detection. It's almost a sure thing, since you were getting a height of 250, which is used in PAL mode. Again, I suggest to everyone to completely remove any older stella.pro files and start from scratch. And as a nice bonus, not having that file present will make Stella strt up quite a bit faster.

[+stephena]

the default Height was 250. After I set it to 210, the test game worked!

I've usually seen 210 lines for the height, but I've also noticed that it gets set to 250 at various times-- probably if Stella thinks the game is PAL. 262 (NTSC) minus 210 equals 52 lines, whereas 250 plus 52 equals 302 lines-- which is close to 312 (PAL). And if the window is set to 320x240 resolution, then 250 is greater than the window's height, which might be why the display was acting wonky.

 

Michael

Yes, this is true. For the newer releases, NTSC/PAL60 games will use 210 for height, and PAL will use 250. In most cases, it shouldn't be necessary to mess with these things at all, and if you find that it isn't working for some ROM, I'd rather fix the auto-detection than have special cases for certain ROMS. The future direction for Stella (if there is one) is to use these tweaks and the external stella.pro database as a last resort; the emulator should figure out as much as possible from the ROM itself.