Atari Is Down For the Count.....

[carmel_andrews]

Just to point out, Atari died as a 'company' once tramiel RM'd with JTS, all Atari became was essentially a brand name, collection of hardware and software patents and that is it

 

Also, The fact that Atari Inc (US) is a 'separate' legal corporate entity amazes me, if i remember correctly, tramiels Atari practically 'died' in the US after 1988, Atari only survived till 1996 because of the money it was making in the UK/European markets mostly and also some of the other non US markets

 

The one big mistake Infogrammes made was making Atari a French owned Entity, that practically killed off any hope of Atari ever succeeding in it's main market (the US)

 

I guess that means that both parts of Atari (coin op and home gaming) are going to become inactive, as WMS havent done anything with Atari games (the orig. part of Atari) since that was absorbed into WMS's Midway division...Perhaps, since WMS still manufactures 'Hardware' of a sort (but not consumer based) and that they still part own Atari's Hardware rights/patents from Atari coin op/home pong up to Tramiels RM with JTS, why don't WMS do a deal with Infogrammes to allowing WMS to use the name Atari for hardware (for the home) and allow Infogrammes to using Atari's existing software rights but under the infogrammes banner

 

Or, even better, someone like Sammy...Who i believe own a considerable chunck of what used to be 'SEGA' and make both brand's the bigshots in emulation hardware

 

Thing about sega is, like atari, after sega pulled out of Hardware manufacturing (after they ditched the dreamcast) they simply became a software publisher (like Atari)

 

Amiga hasn't been a hardware platform since Viscorp and then Gateway 2000 owned the brand, Viscorp started the all rolling by licencing out the Amiga OS (Remember AmigaDE) and set up The Amiga open source group, all Gateway did is follow in the same footsteps

 

Just like infogrammes following in the footsteps of hasbro's and JTS's business model for Atari

 

The Ironic thing in all this is that, Iremember Atari's previous CEO, Mr Bonnell in an interview with Atari games HQ, just after he purchased Atari friom Hasbro... saying that 'he's a long time atari fan/user'...Strange then that he obviously didn't or doesn't know much about Atari history prior to He buying Atari from hasbro...i.e Atari's attempts at using the Atari name for software (apart from Atari branded software released on Atari's own hardware) has being remarkable by it's apparent lack of success in the marketplace, both Atarisoft and Atari interactive both resulted in Atari having of offload the company to someone else, i thought that tramiel had gotten the message by closing down Atarisoft (as well as selling of APX to either the publishers of Antic or Analog) within months of taking over... then relaunching it again as a software lable of the ST (for new releases) and re-launches of the A8 stuff but on cassette format only..that only lasted a little while, then in the mid/late 80'sAtari again tried to get into software publishing with ARC/frames (remember the battlescape series of wargames by Peter Turcan) not forgetting games like black lamp, cygnus x1 and nucleus on the A8 (and whatever they released games wise on the ST), again, that was closed down after a few months

 

Whoever buy's out the spoils of Atari this time...here's a footnote...if you don't want history repeating itself...Forget using Atari's name on software...it doesn't work (and probably has never and will never work)

[Math You]

...what's the problem with a cart slot again?...remember, it's there to play the older games but for crying out loud, there's nothing that would implore Atari to honor warranties of games 25 years old.

 

Actually its quite the opposite, there's nothing that would stop a flood of callers to tech support (which costs money to operate) and irate owners returning said consoles to retailers (which costs more money) because said 25 year old games they happened across won't work. If you think putting a disclaimer is going to stop that, I'd say you haven't been around retail much. Once again, there's a reason why it was left off. Retailers and the product supporter didn't want it for the previously mentioned reasons, regardless of how "unfounded" you claim it is. And retailers have as much to do with shaping a product line as the manufacturer does - because its the retailers who decide what will sell and what won't in their store and why. And it makes no sense to retailers to have a product on their shelves that uses another product that hasn't been manufactured in 25 years. Waste of retail space.

I remember reading that somebody bought a hugh amout of Atari cartridges (I think they were found in a cave?) back in the 80's or 90's with the intention of re-releasing the 7800 console. If Atari did bring back a cartridge based system then whoever has these cartridges would probably try to cash in on the idea.

[atarilovesyou]

...what's the problem with a cart slot again?...remember, it's there to play the older games but for crying out loud, there's nothing that would implore Atari to honor warranties of games 25 years old.

 

Actually its quite the opposite, there's nothing that would stop a flood of callers to tech support (which costs money to operate) and irate owners returning said consoles to retailers (which costs more money) because said 25 year old games they happened across won't work. If you think putting a disclaimer is going to stop that, I'd say you haven't been around retail much. Once again, there's a reason why it was left off. Retailers and the product supporter didn't want it for the previously mentioned reasons, regardless of how "unfounded" you claim it is. And retailers have as much to do with shaping a product line as the manufacturer does - because its the retailers who decide what will sell and what won't in their store and why. And it makes no sense to retailers to have a product on their shelves that uses another product that hasn't been manufactured in 25 years. Waste of retail space.

 

 

Well I don't have much retail info although I understand how a retailer can influence a product. However, how many FB2's were returned because people didn't like the games included? What's one of the biggest complaints you read on amazon about the FB2?..."I got this for my husband but he was hoping that it played the games he already had"...

 

I don't think that including a cart slot would have affected the bottom line, although it would have affected overall PROFITS for the manufacturer. Perhaps Curt could expand a bit if he's around...yes, the unit would have costed more to produce if it had a cart slot. But you still would include the programmed games...

 

That way, you'd have a viable platform right NOW. Instead of only targeting people who have modded their FB or retrogamers who own the original equipment, there could be a movement of employing homebrewers to expand the current library and sell the titles HERE.

 

The way it stands it doesn't appear that the homebrewers are making much cash, or even breaking even. However, if there were a standard method to development and production, they could go through Curt or somebody else who will take care of the cart shells, manuals, so forth...and outside marketing. With a cut going to the programmer of course.

 

Now I KNOW I'm dreaming, but really, if someone has a better way/idea to bring some new life into an older system, let's hear it.

 

Homebrewing won't make anyone rich but I'm sure they can at least make money via the retrogaming community...and isn't that part of the plan?

[Artlover]

Well I don't have much retail info although I understand how a retailer can influence a product. However, how many FB2's were returned because people didn't like the games included? What's one of the biggest complaints you read on amazon about the FB2?..."I got this for my husband but he was hoping that it played the games he already had"...

What amazon are you pulling that out of? I was over at Amazon just now, reading the 56 reviews on the FB2. Only 5 people complained about the lack of a cart port, and not phrased even close to your reference. Some people complained about the games not being what they or loved ones remembered when they used to have them. Most people, by and large, liked the system as it is. Many even complimented the lack of cartridges.

 

 

I like Atari as much as the next guy, but you seem hell bent on ignoring the fact that there is no viable market for a cartridge port to be included. Most people buying plug-n-play system's have no need/use for it. Very small numbers of people do, and even a lot of those who did the cart mod did it not because they needed it (having real atari hardware to play on), but just to do it for the sake of doing. The added cost to include the connector is not all that trivial, and pointless when the target is a low single digit percentage sub-target of an already niche retro group. The number of people who would buy it because of that connector will be a far smaller number of people who don't need that connector that won't buy it because it costs more because that connector was included.

 

There is no shortage of 2600's and stuff on eBay or up for sale/trade in places like Atariage. More then enough to cater to the actual demand for such products.

 

The way it stands it doesn't appear that the homebrewers are making much cash, or even breaking even. However, if there were a standard method to development and production, they could go through Curt or somebody else who will take care of the cart shells, manuals, so forth...and outside marketing. With a cut going to the programmer of course.

 

Now I KNOW I'm dreaming, but really, if someone has a better way/idea to bring some new life into an older system, let's hear it.

 

Homebrewing won't make anyone rich but I'm sure they can at least make money via the retrogaming community...and isn't that part of the plan?

Again, demand, which on a large scale doesn't exist.

 

To that end, most homebrewers aren't doing it to make anything, they do it because they enjoy doing it, and enjoy contributing to their small fellow group.

 

If your goal is a reproduction 2600 with cartdriges being for sale in every store across the country, then yes you are dreaming. You could probably fit all the people who actually want such a thing in a single stadium somewhere. There is just no large scale interest or market in such a thing. It's for exactly that reason things are like they are now amd why everything is a xx-in-1 plug-n-play device.

[mos6507]

...what's the problem with a cart slot again?...remember, it's there to play the older games but for crying out loud, there's nothing that would implore Atari to honor warranties of games 25 years old.

 

IMHO, they did it because it was cheaper and to make the system more closed. The warranty thing is a cover story.

[mos6507]

Actually its quite the opposite, there's nothing that would stop a flood of callers to tech support (which costs money to operate) and irate owners returning said consoles to retailers (which costs more money) because said 25 year old games they happened across won't work.

 

Aside from dirty contacts, I've experienced at most like 1 or 2 carts that "don't work". 2600 carts just don't break. If Atari was fearing this, it was largely an irrational one. If you intend to release a console as a true console you have to be willing to tackle such issues. PS3 users will try to run scratched PS1 CDs from 12 years ago, for instance. Atari's approach was not to market FB2 as a fully functional console but as a closed system. You buy into a fixed selection of games. If you want more, maybe buy another FB2 down the road with different games on them. That's the whole business model of the Jakks sticks sorts of things. So primarily it is poor-man's DRM. If it had a cart port then it eliminates their ability to resell games you already have free access to.

[potatohead]

Actually its quite the opposite, there's nothing that would stop a flood of callers to tech support (which costs money to operate) and irate owners returning said consoles to retailers (which costs more money) because said 25 year old games they happened across won't work.

 

Aside from dirty contacts, I've experienced at most like 1 or 2 carts that "don't work". 2600 carts just don't break. If Atari was fearing this, it was largely an irrational one. If you intend to release a console as a true console you have to be willing to tackle such issues. PS3 users will try to run scratched PS1 CDs from 12 years ago, for instance. Atari's approach was not to market FB2 as a fully functional console but as a closed system. You buy into a fixed selection of games. If you want more, maybe buy another FB2 down the road with different games on them. That's the whole business model of the Jakks sticks sorts of things. So primarily it is poor-man's DRM. If it had a cart port then it eliminates their ability to resell games you already have free access to.

 

This is an opportunity man!

 

Just include a retro cleaning kit, some glossy instructions and stories of great , "in the wild --you never know what you might find" things and let people either try their carts or not. Heck, offer a prize for anyone who finds games from the scavenger hunt. That way, working through the issues (if there are any) is worth doing, right?

 

Non issue. Just needs some thinking through, IMHO.

[Artlover]

If it had a cart port then it eliminates their ability to resell games you already have free access to.

And just how many people have "free access" to cartridges who at the same time do not have access to the real hardware to play them on?

[potatohead]

Not to mention value adds.

 

Sell the carts in packs, with goodies. Or perhaps have new carts and old carts. New carts are multi-carts, and or enable additional functionality. Old carts are just old.

[mos6507]

If it had a cart port then it eliminates their ability to resell games you already have free access to.

And just how many people have "free access" to cartridges who at the same time do not have access to the real hardware to play them on?

 

I think the biggest risk would be people who don't have old carts who DO have access to ROMs who pick up a FB and then pick up a multicart so they can dl whatever else they want to play. The same risk would be true for any cart-based console that doesn't have a lockout chip.

[Artlover]

I think the biggest risk would be people who don't have old carts who DO have access to ROMs who pick up a FB and then pick up a multicart so they can dl whatever else they want to play.

Which still doesn't realisticly make any sense.

 

Anyone who knew what a multicart was, where to get one and was going to buy one for this purpose, could just as easily buy a real 2600, more often then not for less then what a FB w/cart port would cost. The FB series is simply not meant for people who want a cartridge based system. There are enough cartridge based systems to go around for the small number that do.

 

It's like... If you want a truck, buy a truck; not a car then complain that it can't do what a truck can. It's not supposed to.

[mos6507]

Anyone who knew what a multicart was, where to get one and was going to buy one for this purpose, could just as easily buy a real 2600, more often then not for less then what a FB w/cart port would cost.

 

If hundreds of thousands of people (who don't have 2600's in their basement or any old carts) casually bought flashback2's as an impulse buy it does open up a potential aftermarket for multicarts to sell in quantities much larger than what we've seen before if marketed aggressively enough and sold cheaply enough. We're just talking theoretically right now.

 

We're dealing with Infotari here. The same infotari that once attacked the homebrew community directly. I would expect them to hold onto irrational fears.

[Retro Rogue]

Perhaps, since WMS still manufactures 'Hardware' of a sort (but not consumer based) and that they still part own Atari's Hardware rights/patents from Atari coin op/home pong up to Tramiels RM with JTS,

 

Huh? They own nothing of home pong and nothing of Tramiel's Atari Corp. As previously stated, they have the rights to the coin-op hardware from Atari Inc. (1972-1984) and all hardware and console properties of Atari Games (1984-1994, 1996-2000).

 

 

The Ironic thing in all this is that, Iremember Atari's previous CEO, Mr Bonnell in an interview with Atari games HQ,

 

Just to clarify, he was a temp CEO and filled the position several times over the years (each time the regular CEO's left or were fired).

[atarilovesyou]

I don't want to get into an argument, so realize that while I say some things I don't mean to incite anger. Old school games are a fun pastime for me and while I like to banter around ideas, full blown arguments are NOT what I want to involve myself in.

 

So as far as the Amazon reviews goes, I only had to look at the first two screens of reviews to find at least four instances where somebody mentioned the fact that the FB2 didn't have a game they remembered on it, or they applauded the fact it can be modded. To me at least, this simply means that 'had' their been a slot, it would have been very easy to get that customer into the retrogaming groove...just hit a flea market and you're off!

 

Mind you I just picked up three used games for dirt cheap, and they're quite tricky to get working..this is even after they've been cleaned and the contacts treated with alcohol. So I can see how the old carts could prove to be a problem, honestly.

 

I'd like to see why a cart slot would have been a bad idea. How much would it have increased the value of the system? Can anybody hazard a guess?

 

The reason I got into the whole slot scenario is because I recently picked up 3 games from the AA store...and I really liked them. I think it's great that there's programmers out there who can come up with some GREAT products! And I'd like to see more of that kinda product.

 

Sure, you can go onto ebay, but an Atari and hope that it works well enough to be reliable. I've picked up two and each one has visited the techshop to get brought up to speed. But I'm a hobbyist, I don't mind the cost. But how easy would it have been to have just used my FB2, if it had a cart slot? It's compact, comes with two great controllers that I don't have to shell out more coins for on ebay, A/V outputs...great product.

 

I've heard people say that simply re-releasing a 2600 is not what the FB was intended for. Ok, so they included a lot of the games you remembered as a kid...and included some nice homebrews...hmm, HOMEBREWS....got me thinkin.

 

I think that had the FB2 had a slot, there was a possibility that those who purchased it would have been open to purchasing multicarts....say, an Activision multi...a homebrew multi. 20 bucks isn't out of the question for a collection of 10 games.

 

Why is this such a strange idea? I'd leave my VCS's in the closet if my FB2 had a cart slot. I've seen the mod and it doesn't look like something I want to do...for a bunch of reasons. Why bother including that option when you can rest assured that ONLY enthusiasts will try to take advantage of it?

 

Now that it's said and done, who cares really. But it was an opportunity that wasn't fully explored...perhaps in no small part due to the timeframe the system had to be developed. I realized that getting homebrewers to agree on prices and such was an issue. I certainly don't blame Curt for that, he's an example of what dedication and follow through can do and he's got my respect.

 

BTW, the homebrews I bought were Lady Bug, Medieval Mayhem and Skeleton+....each one is SO great, I'm very impressed. Hell, I'd buy more if I knew they were of THIS quality! And that's why I'm glad there's a place like AA that caters to the retrogamer like myself.

[grimbasement]

Atari Stock listed as the #1 worst stock of the last 10 years! Of course 4 years ago when I bought my Infotari stock for $1.50 a share it shot up to nearly $4 a share within 4 months of buying it (It was listed as a hot stock from this exact same website that is dissing it now ). I should have sold, the stock has been in free fall ever since. But when it crashed it crashed hard and fast. Then came the 10-1 reverse stock split. So my 100 shares (that I bought for $150) are now 10 shares worth $20. BTW the overall stock price adjusted with the reverse stock split so the numbers I gave were accurate just not reflected in the stock price history... This stock to me was like going to Vegas... I knew I would lose in the end... But I do have a nifty infotari stock certificate

 

 

 

http://www.fool.com/investing/small-cap/20...rst-stocks.aspx

[mimo]

Thats the stock market, when you are up you are up and when you are down

 

Remember , investments can go down as well as plummet!

[bigdcaldavis2k]

It's because of the logo.

 

Iconic theft of the mighty Fuji mountain, offending the proud Japanese people and their ancestry, releasing bad mojo.

 

Didn't John Lennon say something about "Instant Karma"?

[bigdcaldavis2k]

Why aren't they making a new smaller and more modern ColecoVision console that would be compatible with all existing CV carts? It would be an interesting product, especially for owners of aging CVs which are plagued with technical problems. But it will probably never happen, because economically, it doesn't make that much sense to release such a product.

 

Because they have no rights to Colecovision. Just the Coleco brand name.

 

IIRC, Telegames still retains the rights to the Colecovision name and the Coleco-made Colecovision games.

[doctorclu]

I think the Flashback 2 did great in the saturated "plug into the TV" market. And unlike the others (save from the full blown mini-Commodore 64 computer) was tinkerable to work with real cartridges.

 

To me, this made the last incarnation of Atari a true one.

 

They had hardware.

 

And the Flashback 2 is an improvement over the older 2600's in the fact tha the A/V support was a feature already included, so you had A/V out of the box and 20 games and some nice controllers.

 

And then if you wanted it, you could add a cartridge port.

 

Thank you Atari. It was fun to have you back, even if for a while.

[Pixelboy]

Why aren't they making a new smaller and more modern ColecoVision console that would be compatible with all existing CV carts? It would be an interesting product, especially for owners of aging CVs which are plagued with technical problems. But it will probably never happen, because economically, it doesn't make that much sense to release such a product.

 

Because they have no rights to Colecovision. Just the Coleco brand name.

 

IIRC, Telegames still retains the rights to the Colecovision name and the Coleco-made Colecovision games.

If you look at the "Our Company" section of River West Brands' web site, you'll notice that they mention both Coleco and ColecoVision.

[Retro Rogue]

Why aren't they making a new smaller and more modern ColecoVision console that would be compatible with all existing CV carts? It would be an interesting product, especially for owners of aging CVs which are plagued with technical problems. But it will probably never happen, because economically, it doesn't make that much sense to release such a product.

 

Because they have no rights to Colecovision. Just the Coleco brand name.

 

IIRC, Telegames still retains the rights to the Colecovision name and the Coleco-made Colecovision games.

If you look at the "Our Company" section of River West Brands' web site, you'll notice that they mention both Coleco and ColecoVision.

 

 

Never happened. When they first came out with the site they talked about the possibility of Colecovision branded games and were working to create a deal (since Telegames owns it). Probably some corporate pr guy that put the thing on the new site together and didn't realize they never put out a Colecovision product (as the text is stating they did). Telegames still owns it after it was unloaded to them in the late 80's.

[almightytodd]

I think the Flashback 2 did great in the saturated "plug into the TV" market...

 

To me, this made the last incarnation of Atari a true one.

 

They had hardware...

 

Thank you Atari. It was fun to have you back, even if for a while.

 

I second that emotion

 

It was a fun little ride, while it lasted...

[calfranklin]

I’ll probably get shot for saying this but I don’t really feel the same connection to the Atari that exists today versus the Time Warner version I grew up with. Reminds me of Coleco and how another company has made and effort to resurrect that name brand. Not really the same company I bought my Colecovision from so many years ago. I guess if I can’t walk into a department store and purchase games for either of those systems (2600/Colecovision) then it’s really hard for me to get all nostalgic about a company that hasn’t existed (at least to me) since the late 80s.

 

I agree. The Atari I love and collect no longer exists. Atari ceased in 1991! That's why we call it retro gaming. This isn't a bad thing either. Atari made it's niche in history and we should be glad for it. Maybe this time they will let Atari rest in peace.

[Retro Rogue]

I agree. The Atari I love and collect no longer exists. Atari ceased in 1991!

 

 

1991?

[+Lynxer2007]

I agree. The Atari I love and collect no longer exists. Atari ceased in 1991!

 

 

1991?

 

I think he meant 1996. I agree with him.