Atari founder says the games of today are "trash"

[MCHufnagel]

Of course they are! However, he's sparked an important debate, even if he did it just to fill his pockets with cash.

But why is it such a big debate? I mean first it was jazz music, then comic books, then rock & roll and now video games. Society is always on the look out to pass the blame of it's problems to what the younger members of society are fond of. I have two kids, ages 15 and 12. And I sure don't like some things they enjoy. But they are basically good kids who do keep their noses clean. My wife and I monitor them though to make sure they are on the right path. Hopefully we instilled enough morals in them so they choose wisely in the future. The real problem is that there aren't enough parents who do this. Not any of the other "problems of the generation" that self promoters like Jack Thompson use to make a name for themselves.

[cimerians]

He makes a valid point in the broader sense. Just look at all the one player games out there. I bet they outnunber co-op games by a huge margin.

 

I also beleive that he forgets what happens to an oversaturated market. He was busy with Chuck E Cheese in the mid 80's but doesn't he remember the crash or even the home PC scene back then? (C64, Atari XL....)

 

Many BAD games. Its no different now than it was back then, lots of crap then, lots of crap now. And back then we didnt have the internet to sort through all the garbage. Just a few magazines that eventually died out.

 

But I do agree with the general point he's making and thats why I'm glad theres a Nintendo out there to focus again on fun rather than a million 1st person single player shooters. I do have my fair share of them (Orange Box, Resistance etc.) but it does get tiresome. Especially having played them since Wolfenstein 3D and Doom. (Better stop myself now).

[moycon]

They've got the same issues as the video games of today, in that they sacrifice the truly important aspects of gaming for exploitation and shock value.

 

Yes this is why Wii is selling so well...It's all the gore fests that system provides for us psychopaths. HAHA You obviously have no clue what's available to consumers these days. Like I said, if every game today was a overly violent kill fest, I might see your point. As it stands, you have no point. The violence games to non-violent game ratio isn't getting any worse than it was back in the days of the 2600. There aren't nearly as many go out and kill innocent people games as you are making it out or even uber violent gore fests.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say here....

 

For every Bioshock or Eternal Darkness, there are three games designed solely to exploit the public's thirst for violence.

 

This makes no sense to me. Bio Shock and ED are violent games, made for adults...Not unlike Custers Revenge or TCM.

 

Here's reality.....

 

For every Bioshock or Eternal Darkness, there are three dozen games designed solely to exploit the public's thirst for gaming.

 

I went to Gamestop, clicked on the "Now Shipping" link and found these recently released games taken from the first 10 pages ignoring the PC games....

 

These are the ones I would hink wouldn't be a problem in terms of being overly violent....

 

Original Frisbee Disc Sports, The Suite Life of Zack & Cody 2, EA Playground , High School Musical with Microphone, Harry Potter Collection, The Sims 2: Castaway, Fish Tycoon, Backyard Football, Crash of the Titans, Disney Princess: Magical Jewels, Ace Combat 6, Avatar: The Burning Earth, Legend of Spyro: Eternal Night , Petz Wild Animals: Dolphinz, Switchball, The Bee Game, Beautiful Katamari, Mercury Meltdown: Revolution, Mountain Bike Adrenaline, Rockstar Games Table Tennis (Wii) ,Tony Hawk's Proving Ground.

 

Here are the games from that exact same time period (Page 10 is where I stopped) that I would think some might consider overly violent in terms on on-screen carnage....

 

SWAT: Target Liberty, Oblivion Game of the Year Edition (This one is debatable but I could see how someone with a stick up their ars might be offended) , Guilty Gear XX Accent Core (Again debatable I would think...but I'll give it to ya)

 

If you think maybe some of the ones I listed in the first list belong in the second, or vice-versa...let me know. Also feel free to double check me...

 

www.gamestop.com

 

Lets deal with reality here folks. And while were' on the subject of reality, does anyone here have a clue how many single player ONLY games were released for the Atari 2600!!! Hee.

Edited October 22, 2007 by moycon

[+Random Terrain]

If the VCS was intended to be a gaming system for one player, they would have manufactured it with one joystick port only.

The great thing about the Atari 2600 was that you could play by yourself or with other people. I hated two-player only games. I love Super Challenge Football by M Network, but I hate that it required two players. I would play that game all of the time if it had a one-player variation. I still wish someone would reprogram the game so that one person can play.

 

 

How does a person really play any game with one's self?

Is that a serious question? How does 'one' take a deck of cards and play solitaire? You can have a lot of fun by yourself with a simple deck of cards, but you can have even more fun with the randomness and artificial intelligence that a video game can provide. When it comes to game systems like the Atari 2600, the trick is to play by yourself, not with yourself. If you're playing with yourself, you're using the wrong joystick.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Random Terrain

[Gabriel]

Nolan is still singing the same song. You gotta admire (or pity) his steadfast devotion to ball containment games though. Oh when will the youngsters learn how much better Breakout is than Halo?

 

With all the babbling about the Wii, and Nolan's rant, and people's comments in this thread, I think it's finally time to say something. Obviously a lot of people don't get it.

 

A whole generation has grown up with videogames. Videogames are not a strange new concept to anyone living in the civilized world. People are not bewildered by the complexity of the standard game. It isn't the subject matter of the games that alienates the mythical person who never played a videogame.

 

The problem is the stigma video-games have of being a kids-only activity. Adults don't play videogames any more than they play with Transformers. If someone over 30 does play videogames, it's because they're a "40 Year Old Virgin."

 

If Nolan were in the boardgame biz, he would imagine a world where everyone played Monopoly exclusively. No one would ever play Heroscape or Catan or Axis & Allies or Twilight Imperium, because those are just niche games which aren't "for the whole family". Only dorks and social retards play those other games.

 

It seems this is a common problem with many videogame fans. They can't seem to stand the idea that there's so much variety in the current game market. They want to get rid of all those other games, and force everyone to play Breakout.

 

One day videogames will shed the stigma of being kiddie. They aren't going to do it if we make everyone go back to only playing Breakout or any other single, narrow genre.

[bretthorror]

Nolan Bushnell apparently thinks that his morality is superior to everyone else's. Morals vary person to person. I hate when someone praises themselves for having "morals" as if others have none. The games of today are fine with their violence and all that because that's exactly what they are, games. Why not put yourself into the world of a drug lord in a game? Nothing wrong with pretending to be an asskicking zombie stomper or a sniper in the US Navy Seals when you have to sit at a desk all day and listen to bullshit spouted by everyone in the office or any crap you have to put up with at your job. The point of the games is to go beyond the realm of the norm.

 

There's a place for every game out there and if the audience is mature enough to handle it, then it's all good in my books. To say this audience can't handle violent games by nitpicking a few crazy things that have happened that were said to be "inspired" by a game would be lunacy. If GTA sold games to 30 million different people (which I don't think would be a stretch by any means) and out of those, say there were ten incidents "inspired" by the game, that is still tremendously low. You have to figure out how many were truly inspired by it and how many of those (probably all) have serious mental problems. To say one out of three million people went nuts and used GTA as an inspiration, that still is so low if you think of how many murders happen out there on a daily basis.

 

Not to mention, the shit on the news is more horrifying and exploitive than in any game, and no one seems to bitch about that. I guess reality isn't as important as fiction...

[homerwannabee]

I think Nintendo and the Wii blow his argument out of the water. He is correct that a vast majority of games are built to what he is saying. But if you are going to have a party. The Nintendo Wii is definitely a cool machine to use.

[carmel_andrews]

Why doesn't Mr Bushnell put a large wad of readies (if he's got any left) and put his money where his cake hole (mouth) is, and buy Atari....if he thinks that today's games are that cack... and come up with something the consumer want's to buy

 

Though Pong and early Atari games were 'successful', could someone remind Mr Bushnell that Pong and Computer Space were hardly 'original'

 

 

Pong...Based on Magnavox's and Higginbothams Video/tele tennis

Computer Space....Based on Steve Russell's 'Space War'

[Mendon]

Just curious...... was there ever an uproar when Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street were released for the NES?

 

I honestly can't recall whether or not there was but I would be inclined to think that there had to be some kind of fuss made by people/organizations when games based on "slasher" movies were released for their family friendly NES by wholesome Nintendo.

 

 

 

Mendon

[Gregory DG]

Wow, I'm surprised how many of you are jumping on Nolan about this. He's basically saying the same thing we classic gamers say, which is that the classic games are the best.

[+Psionic]

One day videogames will shed the stigma of being kiddie. They aren't going to do it if we make everyone go back to only playing Breakout or any other single, narrow genre.

You couldn't be more wrong...in 1976, video games like Breakout were played by everyone (including adults) and when Atari was developing games at that time, they were geared toward the general public. 30 years later, the primary market for video games is antisocial males between the ages of 15 and 30 who lack lives, jobs, and girlfriends and look to the world of video games for some kind release (or they come to video game websites and troll the forums). The fact that many of the most popular games today are rabid testosterone-fueled exercises in graphic violence and video masturbation makes their appeal to the general public limited at best.

 

Just curious...... was there ever an uproar when Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street were released for the NES?

Not that I remember. If there was an uproar, it was because those two games sucked so bad, not because they contained graphic violence (which they did not).

 

Wow, I'm surprised how many of you are jumping on Nolan about this. He's basically saying the same thing we classic gamers say, which is that the classic games are the best.

I'm quite amused by this whole discusssion myself, and how people are taking Bushnell's comments much further than what he actually said.

[Gabriel]

You couldn't be more wrong...in 1976, video games like Breakout were played by everyone (including adults) and when Atari was developing games at that time, they were geared toward the general public.

 

Judging merely from the fact that even the lowest selling console from last generation sold more units than the best selling console of the Atari era, I'd say that you're the one that's wrong.

 

I was called a Nintendo hater, and that's true. I think Nintendo is the worst thing to happen to videogames ever, and will remain such unless videogames become a government controlled substance. Of course, that doesn't mean I want them to stop making their games. I just wish they'd get out of hardware. Sure, I think Paper Mario, Zelda, and Metroid are garbage, but I'm just going to warn people away from games I consider crappy. If someone really wants to play Paper Mario, Zelda, and Metroid, then more power to 'em.

 

However, the people who campaign for "more family oriented games" aren't like that. They actively don't want me to play Final Fantasy VII because Barrett says some naughty words. They don't want me playing Ace Combat 6 because I might fly into a building and remind them of 9/11. They don't want me playing Earth Defense Force 2017 because it's not their idea of fun. Their desire is for everything they don't like to be removed from consideration, leaving us with only "good and wholesome" games like Breakout.

[mos6507]

You couldn't be more wrong...in 1976, video games like Breakout were played by everyone (including adults) and when Atari was developing games at that time, they were geared toward the general public.

 

Which also didn't mean the games had to completely lack violence. Tank was one of early Atari's most successful coinop titles and it involved trying to blow up eachother. There was violence in other coinop titles as well such as Cops n Robbers, Jet Fighter, Subs, not to mention the controversial Shark Jaws. But the common denominator is that these games usually featured a 2-player simultaneous mode.

[mos6507]

Judging merely from the fact that even the lowest selling console from last generation sold more units than the best selling console of the Atari era, I'd say that you're the one that's wrong.

 

Comparing sales 1:1 is apples and oranges considering the population is a lot higher today than 25+ years ago and the game business has penetrated more of the mainstream and more countries. The 2600 barely sold at all in Japan, for instance. XBox 360 today isn't selling that well there either.

[MCHufnagel]

However, the people who campaign for "more family oriented games" aren't like that. They actively don't want me to play Final Fantasy VII because Barrett says some naughty words. They don't want me playing Ace Combat 6 because I might fly into a building and remind them of 9/11. They don't want me playing Earth Defense Force 2017 because it's not their idea of fun. Their desire is for everything they don't like to be removed from consideration, leaving us with only "good and wholesome" games like Breakout.

Too true Gabriel.

 

And it's not just video games, but everything in life. To some people, if they don't do activity A or enjoy product B, then nobody should and it really should be banned.

 

I may be a lot more conservative now than in my teens and twenties, but I'm still a libertarian at heart. And very few things burn me up more than some "do-gooder" wanting to ban things because they are morally opposed to them!

[mos6507]

Though Pong and early Atari games were 'successful', could someone remind Mr Bushnell that Pong and Computer Space were hardly 'original'

 

Atari released plenty of original games after that. The coinop division was consistently innovating right up through I Robot and after the crash as Atari Games.

[mos6507]

However, the people who campaign for "more family oriented games" aren't like that. They actively don't want me to play Final Fantasy VII because Barrett says some naughty words. They don't want me playing Ace Combat 6 because I might fly into a building and remind them of 9/11. They don't want me playing Earth Defense Force 2017 because it's not their idea of fun. Their desire is for everything they don't like to be removed from consideration, leaving us with only "good and wholesome" games like Breakout.

Too true Gabriel.

 

And it's not just video games, but everything in life. To some people, if they don't do activity A or enjoy product B, then nobody should and it really should be banned.

 

I may be a lot more conservative now than in my teens and twenties, but I'm still a libertarian at heart. And very few things burn me up more than some "do-gooder" wanting to ban things because they are morally opposed to them!

 

Can everyone get off the "ban" kick? Nolan is not trying to get any games banned. Sheesh.

[MCHufnagel]

Can everyone get off the "ban" kick? Nolan is not trying to get any games banned. Sheesh.

I don't think that Bushnell wants a ban either. But there are people who do and could use this in their cause. Just think of this, "father of video games" feels that modern games are anti-family.

 

Study history. These things never start out as an outright ban. But they tend to work their way to one.

[Gabriel]

I don't think that Bushnell wants a ban either.

 

I don't think he is either. I think he's preaching to his audience. And who are the members of his audience?

 

To even be aware of this little article, you have to be pretty into videogames. And NB is pretty irrelevant to anyone but classic gamers. So, he's speaking to a crowd already predisposed to dismiss modern gaming as nothing other than GTA and Manhunt. He's saying what that crowd wants to hear, that the popular games today are bad and only the classic games they played growing up have any merit.

 

My whole spiel about censoring games was mainly in response to PingvinBlueJeans. From the article originally linked to at the start of this thread, I don't know what context NB is using the word "trash" to define modern games. I don't know if he's saying they're poor in quality or just smut. From previous interviews of NB I've read, I'm inclined to believe he means the former, not the latter.

 

On the other hand, it's another example of Nolan tailoring to his audience. He's at least marching in the same alarmist, sensationalist parade the Jack Thompson float is in. "Remember when games were pure and simple, and didn't involve shooting hookers?" He's saying this to people in their near 40s who remember having fun playing Asteroids. Why can't their kids enjoy good wholesome fun like that?

[Recycled]

Wow, I'm surprised how many of you are jumping on Nolan about this. He's basically saying the same thing we classic gamers say, which is that the classic games are the best.

 

Here! Here!

[mos6507]

Can everyone get off the "ban" kick? Nolan is not trying to get any games banned. Sheesh.

I don't think that Bushnell wants a ban either. But there are people who do and could use this in their cause. Just think of this, "father of video games" feels that modern games are anti-family.

 

Study history. These things never start out as an outright ban. But they tend to work their way to one.

 

That's not his problem. If he doesn't like today's games, he has a right to express himself.

[Video]

Actually, people aren't antisocial because of games. It's more the other way around, games are becomeing antisocial cause people no longer have that option. Between haveing to work two jobs to make ends meet, and every family member (that's old enough) working, there simply isn't time to do 'family' gameing anymore.

 

Seriously, when was the last time ANY of you had your entire family together in one space for more than a few minutes?

 

I will however agree that most of todays games are trash. But...that's true of all generations. There's not many consoles out there, from any era (including Bushnels own Atari) that 90% of it's library isn't trash. It's just a case of...do you care enough to wade through the garbage to get the gold?

 

Funny that Nolan listed a game as a good game, that has all the qualitys of being antisocial that he's so against...at least, I haven't run into to many breakout games that were particularly interesting to watch someone else play, or let more than one person play at a time. Yes, they do exist, but not many.

[mos6507]

I think there is a strain of ageism in this thread which really disgusts me. Bottom line is today's kids with their tats, emo haircuts, and wigger ebonics are going to be embarassed to look back at their myspace photos 20 years from now. They just don't know it yet. When you get older you have just as much a right to express your opinion as any other age group and it's not fair to just brand someone senile and irrelevant because they don't like what you like.

[MCHufnagel]

Can everyone get off the "ban" kick? Nolan is not trying to get any games banned. Sheesh.

I don't think that Bushnell wants a ban either. But there are people who do and could use this in their cause. Just think of this, "father of video games" feels that modern games are anti-family.

 

Study history. These things never start out as an outright ban. But they tend to work their way to one.

 

That's not his problem. If he doesn't like today's games, he has a right to express himself.

Your right he does have the right to express himself. Just like I have the right to dis-agree with him publicly.

[+Random Terrain]

You know what? An idea about the following has been been barking and scratching at the door of my brain:

 

"My personal favorite is Breakout. It is one of the games that everyone loved. It was very satisfying to play. It was like breaking down walls. And it was a metaphor. The world is better when you break down walls. Walls separate people. The more inclusive we can be, the better we can be as a species."

I could understand that a little better if something really cool happened when you destroyed a wall or you moved on to a second stage of the game that was even more fun, but all you get is another wall. It seems the message is "Breaking down walls is useless because the walls are rebuilt as soon as you knock them down. Give up kids. Life sucks. Go smoke some crack."