Which Atari 8 bit computer is best overall?

[JamesD]

If you don't mind the size and mods the 1200 has the best keyboard of the Atari 8 bits and it looks nice.

 

If you don't want to add mods but still run even the larger stuff the 130xe is best. If you are doing a lot of typing you might not care for it though. I have a couple 130xe's. I don't mind the keyboard but it is kinda spongy.

 

The 800xl is a pretty good all around system and can be had cheaper than all but the 400 but won't play larger games without mods.

 

The 600xl is smallest but needs expanded to run anything other than cartridges that need 16k.

 

I'd like a 1200 or 600 just because I think they are cool looking.

[mimo]

So in summary (feel free to cut and paste next time someone starts a whats best thread )

x00 range- 4 joystick ports

400 - cute, weired keyboard, no monitor port, 16K standard, limited upgrades available (my favorite) cant run XL/XE progs

800- Built like a Tank, nice Keyboard, 48K standard, best s-video output cant run XL/XE progs

 

XL range - need translator/cracked software to run some 400/800 progs, Basic Built in, fair build quality, some/all IC's socketed, only 2 joystick ports

600XL - smallest 8bit, good keyboard(Alpes) 16k standard, monitor out only on PAL models

800XL- 64k, real workhorse, fair to good keyboards, missing chroma on monitor out

1200XL - 64K, nicest keyboard, hackers favorite, some software incompatibility in standard trim, needs clearpic/supervideo mod to have decent video out.

1400XL - In your dreams

1450XLD- Rocking horse shit

 

XE Range, build quality compromised, least liked keyboard, decent video out

65XE-64K

130XE-128K

XEGS- 64K detachable keyboard,composite out, pastel coloured console keys

 

Colours of all the above can change due to UV light

 

Anyone want to add anything?

Edited November 12, 2007 by mimo

[JamesD]

What about number of joystick ports?

[mimo]

What about number of joystick ports?

fixed

[walter_J64bit]

IMHO the ATARI 800 computer is best as some XL computers require what is called THE FIXXL to play some games and run some programs.

 

My best friend has a 1200XL and it needed THE FIXXL for certain games and programs and you don't know what games and programs need it until you try to run a program or play a game.

 

My first Atari computer was an Atari 800 and I love it and I never had any problems with it and I also got an Indus GT disk drive and no problems with that either.

 

I did get another Atari 800 from EBAY and I thought I was having problems with it but it turned out to be the Atari 810 disk drive.

THE FIXXL? So what your saying I can run some XL/XE programs on an 800? I have an 800 with 288k that needs a new key Keyboard I would love to see XL/XE programs run on it, where can I get this FIXXL? Now I have to pull out the old 800 and see this.

Edited November 12, 2007 by walter_J64bit

[mimo]

If only!!

it is to run 400/800 software on an XL

http://www.atariarchives.org/mapping/appendix18.php

[+wood_jl]

I'll have to chime in on this topic, but granted this is from a non-technical user's view.

 

Non-technical means I've never soldered fine electronics and would likely screw something up.

I'm also kind of poor at the moment, or I'd likely PAY SOMEBODY to fix up an XL to superior specs....

 

Having said that....

 

I'd go with the 130XE. Here's why:

 

(1) Has "proper" chroma/luminance outputs on the monitor port (as does the original 800) but the XL computers don't. This translates into S-Video output with no modifications, with $10 S-video cable from Ebay.

 

(2) It's an XL/XE - I think some of the later games (even ROM cartridges) need XL/XE to play. Archon on ROM?

 

(3) It has BASIC Rev. C built in - not the buggy Rev. B like an XL

 

(4) The extra memory - but I doubt I'll find use for it.

 

(5) The cartridge port on back takes getting used to, but doesn't scratch up like the metal doors on XL.

 

Drawbacks??

 

As many people attest to, there's some cheap build quality. I've read how cheap/thin the motherboard traces are. All the more reason I'd be afraid to attempt soldering/desoldering to it with no experience. Everything's soldered in. Cheap! But, since it has what I want in it already, and I don't know how to mod, it continues to work and serve me!

 

The keyboard, as many attest to, isn't the greatest. It's like an ST. However, back when it was my "main" computer that bugged me. Now I just toy with it and use a PC!! So I don't type much on it and never will.

 

It's a "Tramiel" era product....philosophically, I prefer Atari products before the Tramiel "aire of cheapness" but I must admit the 130XE, in all its cheapness, does what I ask of it and I don't have to mod it.

 

If you can solder/mod/etc (or afford to have one modded, and even KNOW WHO/WHERE to get it done) I'd go with 800XL (I think Hong Kong was better than Taiwan 800XL), get the missing signals back on the monitor port so you can do S-video and get BASIC REV C swapped in (may have to be unsoldered/socketed on motherboard) and a 256K (or whatever) memory upgrade.

 

If I could find one of those, I'd be happy with an 800XL. Alternative is to get a nice 130XE from Ebay for $40 which is what I did. When I get more money, I wouldn't mind buying a modded 800XL or paying someone to fix one up for me. I had one of these about 18 years ago (with those changes I've suggested) and I wish I still had it.

 

James Wood

Laramie, WY

[+Philsan]

I must admit the 130XE, in all its cheapness, does what I ask of it and I don't have to mod it.

I agree.

[pepax]

I always liked my expanded 130XE (320KB,Q-MEG, parallel port) which I had to sell in favor of Amiga 600. But not very long ago I got a 600XL (as a bonus with a (then) Czechoslovak ZX Spectrum clone ) which was already upgraded to 64KB+Q-MEG+parport. Since then it got upgraded to 576KB, stereo and supervideo mod (thanks a lot Beetle!). Together with a tiny little 5V/3A power source it's a great party machine.

It's funny that I have always considered the XE design very nice and XLs really ugly. Now there's a small exception.

 

Pepax

[+wood_jl]

I always liked my expanded 130XE (320KB,Q-MEG, parallel port) which I had to sell in favor of Amiga 600. But not very long ago I got a 600XL (as a bonus with a (then) Czechoslovak ZX Spectrum clone ) which was already upgraded to 64KB+Q-MEG+parport. Since then it got upgraded to 576KB, stereo and supervideo mod (thanks a lot Beetle!). Together with a tiny little 5V/3A power source it's a great party machine.

It's funny that I have always considered the XE design very nice and XLs really ugly. Now there's a small exception.

 

Pepax

 

Back towards the end of the 8-bit heyday (late 80's/early 90's) I had a modded 600XL that I wish I still had. Scott Peterson (who was known for 320K/576K/1088K 130XEs) lived in Anchorage, AK at the time I did, and used to mod stuff for me for pennies. So I had a 600XL with "Rambo" 256K (or equivalent) and added monitor port (hole drilled in case) with chroma/luminance and BASIC rev. C. Wish I didn't let it go; hence I use a stock 130XE now. I really shot myself in the foot when I got rid of my 8-bit stuff because I was wowed by the glamourous new ST stuff at the time. In retrospect, the move from ST to PC (a 286/16Mhz) was not as painful and I don't really miss the ST computers. Moving from the ST to a DOS/Windows machine felt much like moving from a Pentium 3 to Pentium 4 machine - just a progression, but without the "character" and uniqueness of the 8-bit Atari. Damn if I wasn't in school I'd be stockpiling the 8-bit stuff before it's all gone - merely replacing what I once had. Wish I'd learned something of electronics because it's not cheap or easy to find someone to work on 8-bit Ataris in 2007.

 

JW

[Urchlay]

BASIC Rev C vs. Rev B isn't really an issue unless you're planning to write lots of BASIC code. The rev B lockup bug only occurs when editing programs, not running them.

 

And if you *are* planning to write lots of BASIC code, you'd be better off using Turbo BASIC or maybe OSS BASIC XL or XE.

[+wood_jl]

BASIC Rev C vs. Rev B isn't really an issue unless you're planning to write lots of BASIC code. The rev B lockup bug only occurs when editing programs, not running them.

 

And if you *are* planning to write lots of BASIC code, you'd be better off using Turbo BASIC or maybe OSS BASIC XL or XE.

 

I think the "lockup"bug was supposedly one of Rev.A. Wasn't Rev. B the bug that added "garbage" bytes to the basic program each time you saved it? Then you'd run out of memory (presumably)?

 

It's likely just psychological....who writes tons of Atari Basic code nowdays? But who wants buggy stuff either!

[Urchlay]

I think the "lockup"bug was supposedly one of Rev.A. Wasn't Rev. B the bug that added "garbage" bytes to the basic program each time you saved it? Then you'd run out of memory (presumably)?

 

Rev A has an editor lockup bug that triggers when lines of code are deleted... rev B fixed that, but added a new lockup bug that triggers when lines of code are added (happens more often, because you tend to add lines to your program more often than you delete them). You're right about the other thing though: programs grow by 16 bytes every time you save them in rev B... but AFAIK, it's only the on-disk copy that gets the 16 bytes of junk. Running SAVE over & over again won't make the current program in memory grow (each SAVEd copy will have 16 bytes extra though).

[JokerCPoC]

If you don't mind the size and mods the 1200 has the best keyboard of the Atari 8 bits and it looks nice.

 

If you don't want to add mods but still run even the larger stuff the 130xe is best. If you are doing a lot of typing you might not care for it though. I have a couple 130xe's. I don't mind the keyboard but it is kinda spongy.

 

The 800xl is a pretty good all around system and can be had cheaper than all but the 400 but won't play larger games without mods.

 

The 600xl is smallest but needs expanded to run anything other than cartridges that need 16k.

 

I'd like a 1200 or 600 just because I think they are cool looking.

Some games will require a Translator disk or a 400/800 OS, Something like the Ramrod XL would do, Of course the trick is finding one. Of course I don't know If the Ramrod XL and the 1200XL were ever do able at all, It would be nice. Other items are slightly easier to find, Now where did I place that Best Catalog of mine(out of print too)? Not to mention the S-Video could use a mod to make It as sharp as the 800 was supposed to be. Of course is Atari Classic 2/6 referring to Antic?

[mimo]

If you don't mind the size and mods the 1200 has the best keyboard of the Atari 8 bits and it looks nice.

 

If you don't want to add mods but still run even the larger stuff the 130xe is best. If you are doing a lot of typing you might not care for it though. I have a couple 130xe's. I don't mind the keyboard but it is kinda spongy.

 

The 800xl is a pretty good all around system and can be had cheaper than all but the 400 but won't play larger games without mods.

 

The 600xl is smallest but needs expanded to run anything other than cartridges that need 16k.

 

I'd like a 1200 or 600 just because I think they are cool looking.

Some games will require a Translator disk or a 400/800 OS, Something like the Ramrod XL would do, Of course the trick is finding one. Of course I don't know If the Ramrod XL and the 1200XL were ever do able at all, It would be nice. Other items are slightly easier to find, Now where did I place that Best Catalog of mine(out of print too)? Not to mention the S-Video could use a mod to make It as sharp as the 800 was supposed to be. Of course is Atari Classic 2/6 referring to Antic?

Just get the APE warp+OS from Atari Max

[Bryan]

I really like the 800. Very cool case. Solid engineering. Unfortunately, it was somewhat obsoleted by later models. I would love to see an 800 case modeled in new colors with an XL/XE compatible mobo (and maybe 1090 compatible slots). I'd be very surprised if the 800 molds still exist.

 

There is no perfect A8 in my opinion. The XL's are decently built but most have flaws in the video output that need to be corrected. The XE's are cheap junk in my opinion. The cases are flimsy and the keyboards feel awful.

 

My choice is an 800XL with one of the circuit board based keyboards, video mods and a RAMBO upgrade (there are no fewer than 5 different keyboards out there in the XL's).

[Urchlay]

There is no perfect A8 in my opinion.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head... Without hardware mods, none of them is perfect.

[+Larry]

I agree, the ONLY thing that really kept me from upgrading my 1200XL sooner, and getting rid of the 130XE, was the lack of a PBI/ECI port on the 1200XL as well, but as you said, with the advent of the MyIDE+Flash, PBI/ECI isn't important for HD expansion any more, besides, the PBI/ECI HD boxes are rare and expensive, and aren't even IDE compatible, so only older SCSI type drives with less capacity can be used anyway. Without adapters or the new redone Multi I/O board that MetalGuy66 produced, but still far more expensive than a the MyIDE.

 

The MyIDE series is a fine product that keeps getting better and more versatile. But there is also an excellent alternative in the KMK/JZ IDEa interface available at

http://atarifanstore.selfip.com/idea.htm

Cost? Currently $115 + shipping from New York IIRC (check the website). These interfaces were previously less expensive, but like all things from Europe, the prices have followed the Euro/Dollar divergence. The interface shown does not have a picture of the included ECI adapter for the 130 XE (or 65 XE with ECI). Also, there is no cartridge jack included on the adapter, but there are connections on the ECI adapter pcb to add one. (I added a cart jack on mine from a dead 65 XE, although my board is slightly different.)

 

I have and very much like both interfaces. The MyIDE is certainly quite fast, but the KMK/JZ interface is absolutely the fastest interface currently available for the Atari 8-bit. There are quite a few timings of various interfaces mostly on pages 1 and 2 at

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...=76383&st=0

 

Larry

[+wood_jl]

I really like the 800. Very cool case. Solid engineering. Unfortunately, it was somewhat obsoleted by later models. I would love to see an 800 case modeled in new colors with an XL/XE compatible mobo (and maybe 1090 compatible slots). I'd be very surprised if the 800 molds still exist.

 

There is no perfect A8 in my opinion. The XL's are decently built but most have flaws in the video output that need to be corrected. The XE's are cheap junk in my opinion. The cases are flimsy and the keyboards feel awful.

 

My choice is an 800XL with one of the circuit board based keyboards, video mods and a RAMBO upgrade (there are no fewer than 5 different keyboards out there in the XL's).

 

I agree completely about the 800. I want a mint one just as an ornament. XL innards would be awesome! But new colors?? Whoa there - gotta have the beige.

 

As cheap and flimsy as the XE's are, it's hard to ignore the fact that you can get a NICE 130XE for $40 on Ebay, about the same price as 800XL. How many multiples of that price would it cost to buy the 800XL, pay shipping both ways to a modder (not all users are modders) as well as pay the for the mods? You'd be lucky to get in under $150 (more??) by the time all that is taken care of - even if you knew *where* to get the work done.

 

The only point in the 130XE is you can play a cheap, S-video game of Star Raiders on a $40 machine, and since you only type with 1 finger when 8-bit gaming, the keyboard isn't really an issue like it was in the 80s.

 

This thread should be titled "Which is the most practical Atari 8-bit computer overall?" For casual users on a budget, the "best A8 of all" is of comparatively little relevance.

 

Since there's all this talk of modding XL's - which indeed makes them the more desirable machine once paid for - anybody have a list of modders (and prices) that still perform typical mods on 800XL? Then this topic could be brought out of the theoretical. Correcting XL video and memory upgrades would be of course of prime interest!

Edited December 14, 2007 by wood_jl

[Bryan]

I agree completely about the 800. I want a mint one just as an ornament. XL innards would be awesome! But new colors?? Whoa there - gotta have the beige.

Oh, I like the beige but if someone were to make a new 800 it would be cool to see that case in gray or white.

 

-Bry

[JokerCPoC]

If you don't mind the size and mods the 1200 has the best keyboard of the Atari 8 bits and it looks nice.

 

If you don't want to add mods but still run even the larger stuff the 130xe is best. If you are doing a lot of typing you might not care for it though. I have a couple 130xe's. I don't mind the keyboard but it is kinda spongy.

 

The 800xl is a pretty good all around system and can be had cheaper than all but the 400 but won't play larger games without mods.

 

The 600xl is smallest but needs expanded to run anything other than cartridges that need 16k.

 

I'd like a 1200 or 600 just because I think they are cool looking.

Some games will require a Translator disk or a 400/800 OS, Something like the Ramrod XL would do, Of course the trick is finding one. Of course I don't know If the Ramrod XL and the 1200XL were ever do able at all, It would be nice. Other items are slightly easier to find, Now where did I place that Best Catalog of mine(out of print too)? Not to mention the S-Video could use a mod to make It as sharp as the 800 was supposed to be. Of course is Atari Classic 2/6 referring to Antic?

Just get the APE warp+OS from Atari Max

Thanks, I'd found that out on My own later on after I'd made that post, Talk about obscure stuff these days.

[JokerCPoC]

I agree completely about the 800. I want a mint one just as an ornament. XL innards would be awesome! But new colors?? Whoa there - gotta have the beige.

Oh, I like the beige but if someone were to make a new 800 it would be cool to see that case in gray or white.

 

-Bry

Well the last of the New 800 case tops and bottoms at Best Electronics are SOLD OUT now. So someone would have to make a copy from an existing case that has a dead 800 in It, Heavy shielding and all.

[GasMonkey]

Hands down, it has to be the 800XL.

[JokerCPoC]

I agree, the ONLY thing that really kept me from upgrading my 1200XL sooner, and getting rid of the 130XE, was the lack of a PBI/ECI port on the 1200XL as well, but as you said, with the advent of the MyIDE+Flash, PBI/ECI isn't important for HD expansion any more, besides, the PBI/ECI HD boxes are rare and expensive, and aren't even IDE compatible, so only older SCSI type drives with less capacity can be used anyway. Without adapters or the new redone Multi I/O board that MetalGuy66 produced, but still far more expensive than a the MyIDE.

 

The MyIDE series is a fine product that keeps getting better and more versatile. But there is also an excellent alternative in the KMK/JZ IDEa interface available at

http://atarifanstore.selfip.com/idea.htm

Cost? Currently $115 + shipping from New York IIRC (check the website). These interfaces were previously less expensive, but like all things from Europe, the prices have followed the Euro/Dollar divergence. The interface shown does not have a picture of the included ECI adapter for the 130 XE (or 65 XE with ECI). Also, there is no cartridge jack included on the adapter, but there are connections on the ECI adapter pcb to add one. (I added a cart jack on mine from a dead 65 XE, although my board is slightly different.)

 

I have and very much like both interfaces. The MyIDE is certainly quite fast, but the KMK/JZ interface is absolutely the fastest interface currently available for the Atari 8-bit. There are quite a few timings of various interfaces mostly on pages 1 and 2 at

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...=76383&st=0

 

Larry

Yeah those Guys from Poland seem to know their stuff, I like the idea of using a 16MB flash card, Imagine about 177 or so atr disk images able to be stored there per card, Nice. The old pbi/eci interfaces are nice, But are just a waste without an affordable device to go there anymore. So a 1200XL for Me is plenty, especially with the Warp OS, 400/800 OS and XL/XE OS installed.

Edited December 15, 2007 by JokerCPoC

[NightSprinter]

Is there a way to play four/eight-player games (Asteroids, M.U.L.E., Super Breakout) on the XL/XE series? I'm curious because I'm becoming intrigued by this "Video Easel" cartridge I have, and want to see if there's a way to have joysticks three and four work on the XL/XE.