Godzilla Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 The below may be a bit thick to get through, but I wanted to put it all in order and get into an appropriate place... Once, longo ago, I worked with (first) Erik Mooney (then) Piero Cavina on an idea I had for a 2600 game. They both had kernals (erik fully and piero mostly,) working before the project was abandoned. I still have the actual iff files on my amiga 4000 but I have yet to find a monitor cord to be able hook it back up to get them off. (for some reason all my 1080/1084s have problem monitor cords.) But, at least one iteration of the player & missle data I created is here. This got pretty far and then died. 10 years. wow... Thought some of you might get a kick out of seeing it. I hope to get the pics up here eventually, and I will add them to the thread. The post with the sprite data and the game details is towards the very bottom. Enjoy. [stella] Wanted: Buff 2600 programmer for new game! Subject: [stella] Wanted: Buff 2600 programmer for new game! From: kickass <kickass@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 01:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Hi, I've got a game I want to make for the 2600, but assembly (especially 2600 line-by-line,) is currently a bit out of my league. I am very adept at 2D graphics/sprites (3d too, but rendered gfx are a BIT out of the 2600s league,) and can provide any and all gfx needed for the game (so long as the programmer knows how to turn them into game gfx, or can tell me how to...) I have a very specific idea for the game, and a very specific idea of what it should have for different versions, one and two player simultaneous modes (possibly four players w/ paddles,) I haven't really seen this game done on any system, either, so it would be a first (well not really*) Well, a first for a console system, anyway... Can someone tell me what the different screen resolutions of the 2600 are, and how many colors per scan line can be displayed in each mode (and exactly what was the 2600s pallette? I keep hearing 256, but have never heard a definate answer...) I would love to have a programmer who agrees with me on the following: 1) The 2600 is the best system ever made for playing games (not looking at them, playing them,) 2) The 2600 provides the fastest gameplay on the planet (I've not seen anything faster,) 3) In the hands of a talented programmer, the 2600 can do amazing things (I believe it can do anything, but then, I've never had to program it! I've just seen the results of others work (Pitfall II, Solaris, Fathom, Space Shuttle, Kaboom!, Mountain King, etc,(Not to mention all the new stuff I've seen on this list (rescue, oystar(tron,plan 9, etc))) 4) I don't expect the world, but at least a continent or other major, desirable land mass. (It would be nice if the game could have the polish of an imagic/acitivsion/good atari title, no flicker would be even better!) 5) Something of a dreamer, but with firm roots. Someone who finds someone saying 'you can't do that' as one of the best reasons to prove that person wrong. 6) A dedication to fun, fast, finely tuned gameplay. 7) Doesn't mind sharing the work with this list (a MUST,) At least make a 4k cart out of it, or a supercharger 6k. (It realistically shouldn't need more then 4k, but this is the 90s, and tight code seems to be a thing of the past...) I want something that will make it easy for the few huddled masses of 2600 heads to ALL be able to play it (not everyone has pcs or emulators or superchargers, My good friend, and fellow collector, Carl, has no computers, and doesn't even play any other systems at all! For him, there is nothing greater than the 2600. I admire his purity, (but occasionally get sucked into a modern game with vacuous gameplay and gorgeous gfx/musc/etc)) Thank you for your kind attention! Please consider this seriously, and let me know. I feel this would make a great game! (*loosely based on my first game watch, from ages ago, where a tank dodges falling bombs,(I'll fill you in on the game details when I hear from you!)) From: Glenn Saunders <krishna@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:22:53 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, kickass wrote: > Hi, I've got a game I want to make for the 2600, but assembly (especially > 2600 line-by-line,) is currently a bit out of my league. I am very adept I'd strongly encourage someone to work with this guy. The reason being that there may be people on this list who are good coders, but not necessarily good game designers. The two do not necessarily always coexist!! Sometimes it's best to focus on your strengths and allow others to help you in your weaker areas. There is also a trend that hobby game programmers fall into of always defaulting to a clone of a preexisting game vs. a totally original title. For instance, John Dondzilla writes great games for the Vec, but _ALL_ of them are clones, not originals. There is something to be said for originality, which would be quite refreshing on an old console. So I would encourage you to consider working with him. I understand that the 2600 is a system where one person can write a game from scratch without any help, but even the best games, though authored by only one person, was a team effort and benefitted from the shared routines, advice, and playtesting of coworkers. Why not give it a try? Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 01:24:14 -0400 (EDT) On Sat, 6 Sep 1997, Glenn Saunders wrote: > > I like the idea, but unfortunately there isn't enough programming activity > to support this notion. I wouldn't feel right about such a movement > unless there was a steadier stream of software on the horizon--i.e. more > of a "movement". Right now there seems to be only two major titles in > active development. > > Perhaps it's time to do another poll to see where people stand... Well, I can't announce anything just yet, but I do have a programmer very interested in my game idea, and he had already mastered the tough part (from a programming standpoint, we are doing something never done before on the 2600! And it's a game type I've not seen on any console...) Anyway, if all proceeds as plans you'll soon have an alpha or beta .bin to help us de-bug and play-test before too long. I really would love to see another cd, as I missed the first! Zilla KDK Re: R: [stella] your opinion (fwd) Subject: Re: R: [stella] your opinion (fwd) From: emooney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Erik Mooney) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:35:32 GMT >> interested in my game idea, and he had already mastered the tough part >> (from a programming standpoint, we are doing something never done before >> on the 2600! And it's a game type I've not seen on any console...) > >If a programmer has done something though, never tried before on the 2600, >then it must be announced even if there isn't any playable game yet! >Detalils, details! :-) Fine... it is I that's doing this. The "never done before" part (to the best of our knowledge) is to have four independent detailed player-controlled flickerless objects on the same scanline. In single resolution. With color changes every scanline. We're using the missiles to display two player objects, and the players for the other two. Video Olympics had four such objects, but they were undetailed pong bars, and according to 'kickass', that doesn't count. Ditto for Super Challenge Football, which draws the non-player-object players with missiles... that has four independent detailed objects (double-resolution, though, and I've got mine running at single.) SC Football can display playfield and the ball on the same lines as the players, though, which I'm not doing. Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 16:09:36 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 7 Sep 1997, Erik Mooney wrote: > Fine... it is I that's doing this. The "never done before" part (to Sorry, didn't mean to force you to blow your color! I just wanted Glen to know that things weren't dead in 2600 land. If any other programmers out there want to do a game, but don't have an idea or need graphics, LET ME KNOW (or if you need a motivational butt kick, LET ME KNOW!!!) > the best of our knowledge) is to have four independent detailed > player-controlled flickerless objects on the same scanline. In single > resolution. With color changes every scanline. We're using the While obviously the missle objects aren't as detailed as the player objects, but they are easily identifiable. (drawing w/ 1,2,4,8 pixels only per line w/in a line of only 8 pixels (and no gaps,) is very tricky, BTW!) > missiles to display two player objects, and the players for the other > two. Video Olympics had four such objects, but they were undetailed > pong bars, and according to 'kickass', that doesn't count. Ditto > for Super Challenge Football, which draws the non-player-object > players with missiles... that has four independent detailed objects > (double-resolution, though, and I've got mine running at single.) SC (And our 4 will be player controlled,) > Football can display playfield and the ball on the same lines as the > players, though, which I'm not doing. Anyway, we'll let ya know more when there is more to let you know! Zilla KDK From: Nick S Bensema <nickb@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:38:22 -0700 (MST) >> screen, so the four players will control objects at the bottom, >> attacking (and being attacked by) up to four computer objects at the >> top. Picture some weird combination of Moon Patrol, Astroblast, and >> Air-Sea Battle > >don't forget inverted kaboom w/ certain elements of centipede, commando >raid, and god knows what else (well, that's what happens you try to >describe an original idea by comparing to existing ones...) I'm beginning to wonder if I could at least have some screenshots? This sounds like a very busy game..... and from the sound of things, colorful too. I bet it doesn't even have a black background. I'm imagining a dark blue sky and a red terrain and tanks of all colors at different levels... Re: R: [stella] your opinion (fwd) Subject: Re: R: [stella] your opinion (fwd) From: emooney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Erik Mooney) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 23:48:24 GMT >Lock-n-Chase had such a system, but the characters weren't THAT detailed. >It did take some fiddling with the size and horizontal motion registers >though... And, of course, double-line res. But it still stumped the >hell out of us. Looks like one player is the player-controlled guy, and the other player and its missiles are the enemies. Also looks like the code prevents three of the computer characters from occupying the same scanline. Lock-n-Chase also does playfield stuff, so it's excused for being double-resolution >But if two of the players are really missiles, and they have color changes, >they're not really independent are they? The missiles can be in a different >horizontal position than the players, and perhaps (I think) they can even >have different size readings... but, unless you're doing mid-scanline >tricks, they'll have to have the same color as the corresponding player >object in that scanline. Each missile does have to share a color with a player object, but they can be positioned independently. The number of missile _copies_ are tied to the player copies, but their widths are independent (bits 4 and 5 of the NUSIZ registers.) Same thing with the ball - it can be 1, 2, 4, or 8 pixels in width, and that's controlled by bits 4 and 5 of CTRLPF. >I can't wait to see it anyway.... the way you're talking them up they >probably at least _look_ independent... They do, so far.. all I have is four objects at the top of the screen, but they can move independently. I only have one set of paddles here, so I dunno how well it looks with four players controlling them. 'zilla' and I are planning to use that kernel twice during the screen, so the four players will control objects at the bottom, attacking (and being attacked by) up to four computer objects at the top. Picture some weird combination of Moon Patrol, Astroblast, and Air-Sea Battle Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 00:16:46 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 7 Sep 1997, Erik Mooney wrote: > >I can't wait to see it anyway.... the way you're talking them up they > >probably at least _look_ independent... Yup, and they will even have some color differences to help out. (good for the 'team' modes of the game,) > screen, so the four players will control objects at the bottom, > attacking (and being attacked by) up to four computer objects at the > top. Picture some weird combination of Moon Patrol, Astroblast, and > Air-Sea Battle don't forget inverted kaboom w/ certain elements of centipede, commando raid, and god knows what else (well, that's what happens you try to describe an original idea by comparing to existing ones...) Zilla KDK Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 00:12:48 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Erik Mooney wrote: > >Yes, this gives you the illusion of having a 8-bits to play with, just > >like players, but you can't do shapes like: > > > >XX XX > > > >Or odd widths like: > > > >XXX > > So, instead of lamenting the lack of those shapes, you design objects > that don't need those shapes. Simple. Yeah, that was my challenge. I managed to come up w/ reasonable representations of a tank, and a helicopter using the 'missle rules' and pulled some neat tricks using half player/half missle and doing my best to make sure you couldn't tell (to create bigger, more detailed helicopters, tanks (and a jet for the 'all tank' modes,)) which half was which. I think you'll be pleased with the results, I am. [stella] The mystery game that was going to do all sorts of neat Subject: [stella] The mystery game that was going to do all sorts of neat Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 22:34:53 -0500 (EST) stuff that was never done before that I was working with Erik Mooney on... Well, Erik hasn't replied to me, and seems to have petered out in his efforts to make this game a reality. All the design issues I know of have been worked out, and all of the graphics have been created by myself. If Erik has given up, maybe he would be nice enough to post a commented kernal so someone else can take a stab at it. Anyone else want to work with me to get this game finished? Take care! Zilla KDK Re: [stella] The mystery game that was going to do all sorts of neat Subject: Re: [stella] The mystery game that was going to do all sorts of neat From: Piero Cavina <p.cavina@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:19:18 +0100 (MET) At 22.34 03/11/97 -0500, kickass wrote: >stuff that was never done before that I was working with Erik Mooney on... > >Well, Erik hasn't replied to me, and seems to have petered out in his >efforts to make this game a reality Uh, should I be happy or sad? >Anyone else want to work with me to get this game finished? First of all we need to give a look at the source... P. Subject: [stella] The Game That Was, but Wasn't From: kickass <kickass@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:23:21 -0400 (EDT) The graphics data for all the player objects and bombs are at the bottom of this file. I also have IFF pictures (can be gif if neccessary,) of these objects in action, showing a rough idea of what the backgrounds should look like, if any gets serious and wants them. The basic premise of the game is this: you have tank who wants to get out of the field of fire and to safety. He is hindered by the helicopters OR airplanes dropping bombs from overhead, as well as the sporadic draw bridge. (Other hinderances appear later and/or in different game variations.) The game is played with 1-2 joysticks or up to four paddles. The idea is that there will be any conceivable combination of one to four player modes. (four human helicopters versus computer tanks, 2 on 2, 3 on 1, 1 on 1, and so,) this mode of the game is a static screen, with copters (in four player modes,) or airplanes (in 2 player or lower modes,) on the top of the screen, a simple gradient mountain range in the middle, over which all the bombs fall (up to four per scan line, claims my previous coder,) and the tanks at the bottom, with ground, a drawbridge and water beneath. (basic ascii version) _ \ HELICOPTER / JET AREA / | /\ | | / \ /\ | |Mountai/ns \ n Bomb/s \ Area | | / \______/ \ | | / ------| | ___/ | | |_ | TANK AREA Freedom! |---------------------------=====|- |_pointer_area___________________| \ |Water | Drawbridge (drawn under tanks. (The pointer area is for multiplayer tank games using the paddle, I'll explain later,) There is a one or two player scrolling mode, with boss encounters and power ups (cooperative, or head to head) It goes on the same basic principal of the static screen game, it just takes longer to reach the drawbridges, and when you do the color scheme changes, and the falling bombs increase in difficulty (faster, then eventually, more of them up to the 4 per scan line max, and later, they angle.) One of the basic variations is whether or not the tank can shoot. In many variations, all you can do is dodge. In some, the tank can shoot, and in others, it can shoot and control the turret level. This is where the pointer comes in, with paddle controls. In order to change the turret angle, you have to hold the paddle button down, then the rotation controls the turret and not your tanks movement. Button presses fire. Well, there is a pointer color-coordinated to your tank on the line just beneath the ground. Wherever the pointer is, that is the direction your tank will travel in. This solves the problems of the paddle being absolute (as far as how the 2600 reads it,) This was done because the coder I was working with said that using the paddle in the way I wanted to wouldn't be possible directly, so we came up with the pointer to fix the problem. I'm sure I'm leaving out tons, cause I'm tired, but that should be enough to give you a feel. The GFX (some are player gfx, some are missle gfx, following the rules. All were planned to have some gradient to them, each player needing to be a different color,) Some objects are composed of a player and a missle. These graphics were built off of the assumption that the coder I was working with claimed he had a display kernal that could achieve 2 players AND 2 missles per scan line simultaneously. Plyrs. Tank turret facing up, tread pos. # 1 .111111. 11.1.1.1 1.1.1.11 1111111. 1.111... 1..11... ...11... ...11... tread pos. # 2 .111111. 1.1.1.11 11.1.1.1 1111111. 1.111... 1..11... ...11... ...11... turret pos. # 2 .111111. 11.1.1.1 1.1.1.11 1111111. 1.111... 1..11... ....11.. ....11.. turret pos. # 3 .111111. 1.1.1.11 11.1.1.1 1111111. 1.111... 1...11.. .....11. ......11 turret pos. # 4 .111111. 11.1.1.1 1.1.1.11 1111111. 1.111... 1...111. .....111 ........ Copter, blade pos. #1 ..111111 ...1..1. 11111111 .11.1..1 ....1... .111.111 Pos. # 2 ..111111 ...1..1. 11111111 .11.1..1 ....1... ..11111. Pos. # 3 ..111111 ...1..1. 11111111 .11.1..1 ....1... .11.11.. Pos. # 4 ..111111 ...1..1. 11111111 .11.1..1 ....1... .11..11. The missle tank, w/ it's 4 turret positions ..1111.. 11111111 11111111 .1111... ..1111.. ....11.. ....11.. ....11.. pos. 2 ..1111.. 11111111 11111111 .1111... ..1111.. ....11.. .....11. .....11. pos. 3 ..1111.. 11111111 11111111 .1111... ..1111.. ....11.. .....11. ......11 pos. 4 ..1111.. 11111111 11111111 .1111... ..1111.. ....1111 ......11 ........ The missle copter, and it's 4 rotor positions ...1111. ....11.. 11111111 ..1111.. ....1... 11111111 pos 2 ...1111. ....11.. 11111111 ..1111.. ....1... ..1111.. pos 3 ...1111. ....11.. 11111111 ..1111.. ....1... 1111.... pos 4 ...1111. ....11.. 11111111 ..1111.. ....1... ....1111 The back (plyr) and front (missle,) half of the tank .....111 .1111... ...1.... .....1.. ..1.1.11 ..11.... 11.1.... .....1.. 111.11.1 1111.... 1.11.... ....11.. 1..11111 1111.... 1...1111 11...... 1....... ..11.... 1....... ...11... ........ ....11.. ........ ....1111 ........ .....1.. ....1111 1111.... ...1.... .....1.. ..1.111. .11..... 11.1.... .....1.. 111.111. ...11... 1.11.... ....11.. 1..11111 1111.... 1...1111 11...... 1....... ..11.... 1....... ...11... ........ ....11.. ........ ....1111 ........ .....1.. ....111. 1111.... ...1.... .....1.. ..1..111 ..1111.. 11.1.1.1 .....1.. 111.11.. 1111.... 1.11.... ....11.. 1..11111 1111.... 1...1111 11...... 1....... ..11.... 1....... ...11... ........ ....11.. ........ ....1111 ........ .....1.. ....1.11 ...11... ...1.... .....1.. ..1.1.1. .11..... 11.1..11 .....1.. 111..11. ..11.... 1.11.... ....11.. 1..11111 1111.... 1...1111 11...... 1....... ..11.... 1....... ...11... ........ ....11.. ........ ....1111 ........ .....1.. 1111.... 11...... ..11.... ...11... ....11.. .....11. ........ 1111.... 11...... ..11.... ...11... .....11. ......11 ........ 1111.... 11...... ..11.... ...1111. ......11 ........ ........ 1111.... 11...... ..1111.. ....1111 ........ ........ ........ /\ These are the different turret positions for the 16 pixel wide tank (these are all missle,) The front (plyr) & back half (missle half,) for the 4 frames of anim ........ ....11.. ........ ...11... ........ ..1111.. ........ .1111... ..11.... 1111.... .1..1111 11111111 1.11.111 1111.... .1..1111 11111111 ..11.... 1111.... ........ .1111... ........ ..1111.. ........ ...11... ........ ....11.. Fr. No. 2 ........ ........ ........ .....11. ........ ..1111.. ........ .1111... ..11.... 1111.... ..11.111 11111111 11..1111 1111.... .1111111 11111111 ..11.... 1111.... ........ .1111... ........ ..1111.. ........ ........ ........ ........ Fr. No. 3 ........ ........ ........ ....11.. ........ ..1111.. ........ .1111... ..11.... .1111... .11.1111 11111111 11.11111 1111.... .1111111 11111111 ..11.... .1111... ........ ....11.. ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ fr. no. 4 ........ ........ ........ ......1. ........ ....11.. ........ ..1111.. ..11.... .1111... .1..1111 1111.... 11111111 11111111 .1111111 11111111 ..11.... ..1111.. ........ ....11.. ........ .....1.. ........ ........ ........ ........ Helicopter, front (plyr) back half (missle half,) for the 4 frames ..111111 1111.... ....11.. 11...... .1111111 11111111 1...1111 ......11 .111...1 .......1 .......1 1....... .1111.11 ..1111.. Fr. No. 2 ..111111 1111.... ....11.. 11...... .1111111 11111111 1...1111 ......11 .111...1 .......1 .......1 1....... .111.111 1111.... Fr. No. 3 ..111111 1111.... ....11.. 11...... .1111111 11111111 1...1111 ......11 .111...1 .......1 .......1 1....... .11.1111 .....11. Fr. No. 4 ..111111 1111.... ....11.. 11...... .1111111 11111111 1...1111 ......11 .111...1 .......1 .......1 1....... .1.11111 .11..... Da bombs .1.. 111. 111. 111. .1.. 1.1. 1... 111. 111. 111. ..1. .1.1 ...1 .111 .111 .111 .1.. 1.1. .1.. 111. 111. .1.. .1.. ..1. .111 .111 111. .1.. 1.1. .1.. 111. 111. .111 ..1. .1.1 ..1. .111 111. 111. .1.. 1.1. .1. 111. .111 .111 ..1. .1.1 .... .... .1.. 111. 111. .1.. 1.1. Zilla KDK From: Piero Cavina <p.cavina@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 00:50:46 +0200 At 01.23 12/08/98 -0400, you wrote: >The GFX (some are player gfx, some are missle gfx, following the rules. >All were planned to have some gradient to them, each player needing to be >a different color,) Some objects are composed of a player and a missle. > >These graphics were built off of the assumption that the coder I was >working with claimed he had a display kernal that could achieve 2 players >AND 2 missles per scan line simultaneously. The other day I've tried to put together a display kernel of this kind (2 "real" players + 2 "fake" players made from missiles, changing NUSIZx and doing HMOVEs from line to line). Boys, it was much harder than I though (or maybe I'm starting to forget what I had learned on the 2600 :-). It's almost working, if I can find the time to polish it a bit more, I'll post it. Ciao, P. Subject: Re: [stella] constructively encouraging experimentation and progress. and an ANCIENT unfinished game From: "godzi11a" <godzi11a@xxxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 03:39:30 -0500 So... whatever happened to that tank and airplane game I was working on with ? (piero ?) god it was forever ago. He said he finished the kernal... (ah, erik mooney,) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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