Converting disks to ultraspeed

[djmat]

Hi all. My first post on this forum!!

 

Have been a fairly avid Atari collector for a while now....reliving my youth!!!

 

Have a fairly large collection of software and have recently upgraded my 1050 driver with a US Doubler.

 

What i want to know is, is there a way to convert my software game disks to a high speed format? I have many menu disks and disks with single games on them and would love to be able to use the high speed option of the upgraded drive.

 

Cheers in advance.....

[+Guitarman]

I know you already installed a USD but the better option would have been a Happy upgrade since it loads standard format disk extremely fast. I'm not sure if there is a way to 'add' sector skew to a formatted disk.

[+Larry]

Hi all. My first post on this forum!!

 

Have been a fairly avid Atari collector for a while now....reliving my youth!!!

 

Have a fairly large collection of software and have recently upgraded my 1050 driver with a US Doubler.

 

What i want to know is, is there a way to convert my software game disks to a high speed format? I have many menu disks and disks with single games on them and would love to be able to use the high speed option of the upgraded drive.

 

Cheers in advance.....

 

If your disks are copy-protected (originals), it would be very difficult to do without tracing the loads. That would require a Happy or a Super Archiver (or APE/Atari810 with a PC). If you were able to trace the loads, then you might be able to custom-format specific tracks, based on the copy-protection (or lack thereof). It's a PITA, but can be done.

 

For your menu disks, presumably with binary load files, yes, you should be able to do that. You would need to make a new disk with Ultra-Skew format, then copy the old disk contents to the new disk. Be sure to check each disk after copying before "burning any bridges" i.e. erasing your old disks.

 

Of course, you'll need a high-speed driver so that SIO can operate at high speed. That could be a potential issue for your project unless your driver is in ROM.

 

Guitarman's advice about the Happy drive is dead-on. If this is a casual thing, not worth it, but if you decide you are into this for the long haul, get a Happy 1050 board/workalike. These are quite inexpensive these days. See: .... http://www.atarimax.com/myide/documentation/ (scroll down toward the bottom). If you could have only one drive, then there is nothing so useful as a Happy or workalike.

 

Good luck.

-Larry

[Urchlay]

What i want to know is, is there a way to convert my software game disks to a high speed format? I have many menu disks and disks with single games on them and would love to be able to use the high speed option of the upgraded drive.

 

You can't change a disk's sector skew in-place with a US Doubler (don't think you could with a Happy either, but I could be wrong).

 

For your menu disks, try Hias Reichl's MyPicoDOS: http://www.horus.at/~hias/atari/

 

Basically you'll format a new disk with MyPicoDOS and copy the files from the old disk... when you boot from the new disk, you get a menu, and high-speed SIO is supported. MyPicoDOS has a pretty nice menu system (can choose the game to load with the joystick if you want), and even supports long filenames.

 

For boot disks (non-DOS), there's not much you can do with a USD. Something like a Happy or Speedy upgrade (something with a track buffer) could load them at high speed, assuming the disks aren't copy protected.

[djmat]

What i want to know is, is there a way to convert my software game disks to a high speed format? I have many menu disks and disks with single games on them and would love to be able to use the high speed option of the upgraded drive.

 

You can't change a disk's sector skew in-place with a US Doubler (don't think you could with a Happy either, but I could be wrong).

 

For your menu disks, try Hias Reichl's MyPicoDOS: http://www.horus.at/~hias/atari/

 

Basically you'll format a new disk with MyPicoDOS and copy the files from the old disk... when you boot from the new disk, you get a menu, and high-speed SIO is supported. MyPicoDOS has a pretty nice menu system (can choose the game to load with the joystick if you want), and even supports long filenames.

 

For boot disks (non-DOS), there's not much you can do with a USD. Something like a Happy or Speedy upgrade (something with a track buffer) could load them at high speed, assuming the disks aren't copy protected.

 

Thanks for all your help guys. Think i might sell the USD and purchase a happy board instead. Thought these were hard to come by to be honest and found someone selling the USD at a good price.

[+Guitarman]

Thanks for all your help guys. Think i might sell the USD and purchase a happy board instead. Thought these were hard to come by to be honest and found someone selling the USD at a good price.

 

If you get a Happy upgrade, you won't be disappointed!! It is also highly preferred if you get the USB version of Atarimax's SIO2PC and APE to back up disks or create disks from image files. The drive flies!!

[djmat]

I already have the Sio2PC serial cable. I assume that there wouldn't be much difference in speed using the USB version?

I already get 3x speed transfer using atari810 program on some disk images. You're right....it does fly!!

[Tezz]

I already have the Sio2PC serial cable. I assume that there wouldn't be much difference in speed using the USB version?

I already get 3x speed transfer using atari810 program on some disk images. You're right....it does fly!!

The serial Sio2PC is great ...but! SIO2USB wow you ain't seen nothing yet.

[Rybags]

But is there an actual speed difference?

 

AFAIK, the quickest SIO replacement out there only uses 3x speed, or a little over that, which falls well within what RS232 can do.

[Tezz]

I remember that Steve Tucker posted a video of the SIO2USB utilising a disk copier at very high speed. I think it was a youtube link but I can't seem to find it now searching around. It was very impressive. Maybe I am wrong in that it can also be used higher than 3x during load/save? I still use the RS232 version myself. I'm thinking about an SD card reader built in to my 320XE next like many of the mods that have been done by others with the LED display. I've not seen one fitted into an XE in the mods as the XL seems to be preferable to most.

 

EDIT> I should say SIO2PC USB version. SIO2USB is a different product

Edited January 9, 2008 by Tezz

[+Larry]

But is there an actual speed difference?

 

AFAIK, the quickest SIO replacement out there only uses 3x speed, or a little over that, which falls well within what RS232 can do.

 

It depends on what you are doing and software you are using. The USB can be a little faster for some single density sector copiers. but this amounts to little actual time difference. If you are using Dos, and especially in double density, the serial version is 10-15% faster on my equipment. I ran apples-to-apples tests backing up my hard drive, and the serial version was clearly faster. Both are very nice, but if I already had a serial interface would I buy a USB? No. Would I instead spend the money and get the registered version of the software? Yes!

-Larry

[+Stephen]

But is there an actual speed difference?

 

AFAIK, the quickest SIO replacement out there only uses 3x speed, or a little over that, which falls well within what RS232 can do.

 

Using certain programs (MyCopier for one) the USB version can be double the speed of the serial SIO2PC. At the moment, not even Steve's Warp OS support all the PoKey divisors (meaning only regular speed and 3X are supported). But, as long as the programs supports all divisors, the USB device absolutely screams along.

 

Stephen Anderson

[+Larry]

But is there an actual speed difference?

 

AFAIK, the quickest SIO replacement out there only uses 3x speed, or a little over that, which falls well within what RS232 can do.

 

Using certain programs (MyCopier for one) the USB version can be double the speed of the serial SIO2PC. At the moment, not even Steve's Warp OS support all the PoKey divisors (meaning only regular speed and 3X are supported). But, as long as the programs supports all divisors, the USB device absolutely screams along.

 

Stephen Anderson

 

Some Benchmarks would probably be useful...

 

Test #1: Sector Copy 720 sectors S/D using Copy 2000 2.41D APE image to APE image; Black Box high-speed driver:

Serial "3X" 41 sec.

USB "08" 55 sec.

USB "03" 43 sec.

 

Test #2: Sector Copy 720 sectors D/D using Copy 2000 2.41D APE image to APE image; Black Box high-speed driver:

Serial "3X" 72 sec.

USB "08" 96 sec.

USB "03" 73 sec.

 

Test #3: Copy Ape image to APE image using Win XP and mouse:

Instantaneous...

 

Notes:

I also used MyDos to do the sector copy but got the same numbers as the Copy 2000 (+/- 1 second).

I can't get the Pokey divisor any lower than 03. Maybe the "Black Rabbit" from Analog which blanked the screen entirely?

Yes, the USB sounds like it is screaming at "03" but the numbers say that the throughput is essentially the same as "3X."

Originally, using a USB hub slowed things down a bit as opposed to plugging the interface directly into a computer USB port. Dunno about now -- my current MB has 6 USB ports, so I don't use a hub.

Doesn't mean the USB interface is not neat or useful (especially if you have no serial port).

All times with second hand on watch.

Will post the HD backup times tomorrow or Sunday -- need to back it up, anyway...

 

-Larry

[classics]

If you are benchmarking be sure to follow the recent update instructions here:

 

http://www.atarimax.com/flashcart/forum/viewtopic.php?t=684

 

The new USB driver and firmware have much improved performance and reliability for a wider range of USB hosts.

 

Steve

[+Larry]

If you are benchmarking be sure to follow the recent update instructions here:

 

http://www.atarimax.com/flashcart/forum/viewtopic.php?t=684

 

The new USB driver and firmware have much improved performance and reliability for a wider range of USB hosts.

 

Steve

 

Wow! I'm impressed!

 

I installed the new (registered) updates and it really improves the USB interface's performance.

 

I can now get all the way down to a Pokey divisor of "01" using the Black Box high speed driver -- that's 111860 BPS.

 

The updates improved the single density sector copy time from 43 seconds to 34, a full 7 seconds faster than the serial interface (~17% faster).

 

This is really quite an improvement! Nice going, Steve!

 

More times tomorrow.

 

-Larry

[+Larry]

If you are benchmarking be sure to follow the recent update instructions here:

 

http://www.atarimax.com/flashcart/forum/viewtopic.php?t=684

 

The new USB driver and firmware have much improved performance and reliability for a wider range of USB hosts.

 

Steve

 

Final Benchmarks and a small bump in the road...

 

I finished my benchmarks this AM, but immediately ran into a small issue -- the my Atari would not boot this AM at a divisor of 01 or 02. It was again completely stable at 03. I can't explain that since the test conditions were the same. Perhaps 01 or 02 is just a little "iffy" on my equipment.

 

So I went back and ran the SD benchmark again; this time it came in at 37 seconds. That's 4 seconds or about 10% faster than the serial.

The double density image copy test came in at 63 seconds, 10 seconds faster than the original USB test, and 9 seconds faster than the serial or about 13% faster.

 

Finally, I backed up my HD using a sector copier. This was 20,000 DD sectors.

Serial: 19:19

USB: 18:11

 

That's about 6% faster, and a more "real world" comparison in my Atari use.

 

So there it is. Steve has made some significant improvements in the USB adapter performance. Would the speed alone be worth purchasing a new adapter? The "wow-factor?" I guess everyone has an opportunity to vote on that with their money.

 

-Larry