toptenmaterial Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 you said it koolkitty, it's about enthusiasm for the hobby and connecting with other like-minded individuals; system performance and market share of these old systems is irrelevant and not what we remember about them. also, I don't think we need to stick to the original thread topic, if this discussion makes you think of a new idea, then I say speak your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 And he was refering to the popularity of the RETRO consoles, I think that was pretty obvious really seen as Atari havn't made a new console since 1993 Yeah yeah, I must've misunderstood where he was going with that. With "How many Nintendo homebrews get released each year compared to Atari ones?", were you suggesting that those dozen or some homebrew games show that the 7800 is currently more popular? I mean, I guess it's more popular to program for, but in what other respects? I'm curious if the general gaming public is aware that Atari made any consoles other than "the atari", and possibly the Jaguar. You'd have to limit it to retro gamers, I guess, and even then awareness isn't popularity. I think the 7800 homebrew scene just shows which system has room in its library for more titles. Not much sense in writing a burgertime clone for NES when it's got Burgertime. That's probably part of the appeal of programming for the 7800, too... filling those gaps in the library. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 That's probably part of the appeal of programming for the 7800, too... filling those gaps in the library. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The NES has quite a few homebrew projects going for it at the moment :- http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atarifever Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The NES has quite a few homebrew projects going for it at the moment :- http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=22 How hard can it be to program an NES game? Claim you are making a new game, then make a cart that cycles colours as if it is not connecting properly, and no one will ever know the difference. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 How hard can it be to program an NES game? I'll tell you when I've done it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underball Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The NES has quite a few homebrew projects going for it at the moment :- http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=22 How hard can it be to program an NES game? Claim you are making a new game, then make a cart that cycles colours as if it is not connecting properly, and no one will ever know the difference. LOL. Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 How hard can it be to program an NES game? Claim you are making a new game, then make a cart that cycles colours as if it is not connecting properly, and no one will ever know the difference. LOL! Someone should actually make that. The game could be nothing but a single screen that says "CONGRATULATIONS! WINNER IS YOU!" or something else in Engrish, and the whole game is just blowing on the cart for X (have the game cycle random colors for a randomly generated amount of time upon startup) number of minutes/hours/days/years in an attempt to get the thing to even start in the first place. The repro box could have something like 'The game...IS the game...'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The NES has quite a few homebrew projects going for it at the moment :- http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=22 How hard can it be to program an NES game? Claim you are making a new game, then make a cart that cycles colours as if it is not connecting properly, and no one will ever know the difference. Okay, that was funny... a low blow, but funny. You must also program it to occasionally throw up a splash of random tiles, so that it looks like it's almost going to work if you keep blowing on it, pushing the cart in and wiggling, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubular Gearhead Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The NES has quite a few homebrew projects going for it at the moment :- http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=22 How hard can it be to program an NES game? Claim you are making a new game, then make a cart that cycles colours as if it is not connecting properly, and no one will ever know the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptenmaterial Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 in regards to comparing NES and 7800 titles by emulation, I have, in the past week, seen a lot of variation in emulators... I guess I'll have to hit eBay if I want to make a true comparison.... I think that I will start with arcade ports. It's too bad that the Wii doesn't have 7800 titles on it's virtual console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 in regards to comparing NES and 7800 titles by emulation, I have, in the past week, seen a lot of variation in emulators... I guess I'll have to hit eBay if I want to make a true comparison.... I think that I will start with arcade ports. It's too bad that the Wii doesn't have 7800 titles on it's virtual console. The Wii does have an excellent 7800 emulator, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 The Wii does have an excellent 7800 emulator, though. Its a port of ProSystem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 in regards to comparing NES and 7800 titles by emulation, I have, in the past week, seen a lot of variation in emulators... I guess I'll have to hit eBay if I want to make a true comparison.... I think that I will start with arcade ports. It's too bad that the Wii doesn't have 7800 titles on it's virtual console. The Wii does have an excellent 7800 emulator, though. Ok how do you get or find the wii emulator? for 7800? I never found Atari on there yet. Please explain, no I am not being stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Ok how do you get or find the wii emulator? for 7800? I never found Atari on there yet. Please explain, no I am not being stupid. /me types "wii 7800 emulator" into Google, clicks on first link Are you sure you're not being stupid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atarifever Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 LOL! Someone should actually make that. The game could be nothing but a single screen that says "CONGRATULATIONS! WINNER IS YOU!" or something else in Engrish, and the whole game is just blowing on the cart for X (have the game cycle random colors for a randomly generated amount of time upon startup) number of minutes/hours/days/years in an attempt to get the thing to even start in the first place. The repro box could have something like 'The game...IS the game...'! That is basically what a lot of my NES play sessions were when I was a kid. I'd try so hard to get the game working, I'd feel more success when it worked than when I played the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atarifever Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) You must also program it to occasionally throw up a splash of random tiles, Or be like Dragon Warrior and pull the "okay looking title screen that messes up right as the music tries to start". My copy even does that in the Yobo. It always made me mad because I'd always think it was working and then the rug got pulled out from under me. Edited January 9, 2011 by Atarifever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptenmaterial Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 in regards to comparing NES and 7800 titles by emulation, I have, in the past week, seen a lot of variation in emulators... I guess I'll have to hit eBay if I want to make a true comparison.... I think that I will start with arcade ports. It's too bad that the Wii doesn't have 7800 titles on it's virtual console. The Wii does have an excellent 7800 emulator, though. Ok how do you get or find the wii emulator? for 7800? I never found Atari on there yet. Please explain, no I am not being stupid. I was talking about an official release on the Wii, just as there is a licensed C64 catalog available for download (and a lot of other systems). I haven't played Desert Falcon in a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kool kitty89 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) you said it koolkitty, it's about enthusiasm for the hobby and connecting with other like-minded individuals; system performance and market share of these old systems is irrelevant and not what we remember about them. also, I don't think we need to stick to the original thread topic, if this discussion makes you think of a new idea, then I say speak your mind. Yeah, or at least as far as generally discussing fun games. Those other things are interesting too, especially from a historical perspective (I'd love to get my hands on compiled market share charts for various console/computers broken down by year and region and for hardware and software, or sales figures for that matter -the US 7800 sales figures Curt posted were a bit surprising, 3.77 million units in the US alone and about 3 million in '87/88 alone, much more than I expected -also makes me thing the 2 million US/NA Master System figure is way off). That goes for the technical side of things too, and discussing hypothetical stuff on both sides. (ie "what if" "what could have been" etc) I can enjoy things for what they are and what they achieved, but it's really interesting to muse on what they could have been if things were different too. (as well as why things turned out the way they did historically) It's not just games/computer either though, I've had similar interests in other historical stuff, especially technology. (including aircraft/military tech among some other things -especially during WWII) The NES has quite a few homebrew projects going for it at the moment :- http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=22 How hard can it be to program an NES game? Claim you are making a new game, then make a cart that cycles colours as if it is not connecting properly, and no one will ever know the difference. Yeah, unless it was a famicom or NES2, or a system someone was smart enough to remove the lockout chip from... then the blinking would be a dead give away for being fake (reset loop is triggered by the lockout chip failing to authenticate rather than other systems that just wouldn't boot at all if security didn't pass -or others totally lacking security like the 2600, Famicom, NES2, etc). Edited January 10, 2011 by kool kitty89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 For some reason, I never thought of the lock-out chip possibly being part of the cause of why some cartridges were so finicky on the system and the game not starting, especially so if the power cycling made it glitchy; but it makes some sense. I always attributed it to dust or loose tolerances in connector design. I guess it's a general rule of thumb, one should clip or remove that sucker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhan Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Hehehe. Making NES games is a pain in the ass because the PPU is wacko. I want games like this on the 7800. Someone make one so I can actually buy a 7800 There just werent any games like this on the 7800, and as far as arcade ports were concerned, the 2600, NES, SMS and C64 we had were already fine. and then we got a genesis, and turbo grafx, so yeah....the 7800 was like "uh, why?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Atari 7800 the Rolls Royce of video gaming: Edited January 10, 2011 by high voltage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERY Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 in regards to comparing NES and 7800 titles by emulation, I have, in the past week, seen a lot of variation in emulators... I guess I'll have to hit eBay if I want to make a true comparison.... I think that I will start with arcade ports. It's too bad that the Wii doesn't have 7800 titles on it's virtual console. The games to the 7800 are so cheap that no emulator is required. You could even buy any game just to test it =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kool kitty89 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) For some reason, I never thought of the lock-out chip possibly being part of the cause of why some cartridges were so finicky on the system and the game not starting, especially so if the power cycling made it glitchy; but it makes some sense. I always attributed it to dust or loose tolerances in connector design. I guess it's a general rule of thumb, one should clip or remove that sucker. They're both parts of it. Lockout causes the blinking, without it, every time you see a game try to start only to then reset is due to the 10NES system... ironically the voltage spike hack used by unlicensed games tends to reduce the issue. (save Tengen as they used a clone authentication chip not the simple hack -ironically their much more R&D intensive effort caused them legal headaches that the cheap hack totally avoided for others ) Removing lockout not only makes starting games easier, but also greatly reduced bump sensitivity to crashing games. (so will having a good connection in general though) And never remove it... it's integral to the design and the system won't boot without it unless you do a lot of other hacking. Just clip one pin (pin 4 -you're supposed to ground it but that almost never matters) and it's fine and region free too. (as all Famicoms and NES2s) Supposedly some of the super early models (ie in the test markets) actually lacked lockout, but I'm not sure if that's true. And the connector plays a big role too: any case where you see a blank screen or solid color, that's a total connection problem, same for garbled graphics. It happens on the NES2/Famicom too, but not as bad as the frontloader. Also note (as I mentioned in detail in my first post in this thread) that in most cases you can "revive" a dead connector and not need to replace it. Pretty much anything short of broken off (or heavily twisted/corroded) pins can be corrected with some good cleaning/polishing and sometimes some careful resetting of the pins with small pliers (or careful wedging with a screw driver). You definitely want to avoid over tightening the pins like some aftermarket connectors that are WAY too tight to the extent that pushing the game down risks fatiguing traces on the motherboard and permanently killing the system. I've hears rumors about Nintendo using aluminum connectors and that would be horrible for connection issues (oxidation and dissimilar metal corrosion), but I really doubt it. (I need to check, but I bet it's just tinned copper contacts -which in some cases can be much more of a pain than bare copper, but not terrible in any case) Sometimes a standard cleaning cart is enough, but removing the connector for a good polish isn't that tough. (much more of a pain than other systems though... except the VCS with the dust cover built into the slot -but that's not really a biggy as 2600s rarely needs to be cleaned ever) As for dirty carts, yes, that's an issue as it is for every single cart based platform from VCS (mainly those lacking dust covers) to N64 to the DS today... sometimes alcohol+swab doesn't do the trick either and you need to really get in there and polish with fine sand paper (1000+ grit) or (preferably) disassemble the cart and use an eraser to polish it and in either case finish up with alcohol and a swab. Pretty much all systems have the problem at one time or another, some more than others, albeit none really have that same graphical garbage/corrupted issue that the NES does (especially not as easily), but that may have something to do with the sheer high pin count and dual bus design of the system (others won't boot if the cart isn't fully seated, but the NES could boot with the CPU bus fully connected but the video bus a bit iffy), maybe the Neo Geo would do that too. (it has multiple cart buses, like many arcade boards but almost no home consoles -the Famicom was an exception with the dual bus, dual ROM design and a rather high pin count for the time, more so on the NES -hence why the SNES has many fewer pins, especially without the expansion sockets used -46 or 52 to the famicom's 60 pins and NES's 72, N64 used a smaller number too, but did some rather heavy multiplexing) You can also fine the odd NES system in the wild that works almost perfectly. I was surprised to find one at good will a couple months back like that. (works much better than my old one that I did a half assed job polishing the connector and mine's got the lockout disabled too -one trick for the NES in general though is to get the cart seated and then wiggle it slowly and try again) The model 1 Sega Genesis seems to be one of the best connecting in general, especially for dirty games (which should be avoided in any case) and bumping... the thing is damn tight and also takes in a good chunk of the cart's height so less leverage on potential bumping (more so than the model 2 in both cases). Hell, I've been able to literally pick up the console by the cart while a game is playing without freezing in many cases. (not with the Sega CD attached though) Edited January 10, 2011 by kool kitty89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 The games to the 7800 are so cheap that no emulator is required. You could even buy any game just to test it =) Could you buy me Ninja Golf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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