What makes the stock joysticks so painful?

[atarian63]

I just recently got the most comfortable joystick I have ever used for the 7800. An Epyx 500XJ. I like it better than the WICO. Try em'. You love em'.

 

I had one when I had a 7800 originally and loved how it fit in your hand. My only gripes were the lack of a second button and the fact that mine sometimes got stuck.

 

Bummer. Luckily you can get them very cheap. $5 on eBay and most other sites. Lots of sellers don't know you can use the on the Atari 2600 & 7800. They usually list them for the Sega Genesis. Man I love it though. Sooooooo comfortable.

My kids prefer that one too. Back in the day at my retail store we sold TONS of those. everyone really dug them. The only thing that bugs me is the clicky sound but you get used to it.

Edited March 16, 2008 by atarian63

[godzillajoe]

Is there a stick or controller that works with the 7800 out of the box, supporting both buttons?

 

Aside from the 7800 stock sticks and gamepads

[FireTiger]

Is there a stick or controller that works with the 7800 out of the box, supporting both buttons?

 

Aside from the 7800 stock sticks and gamepads

 

 

I just asked best electronics this, they said... no.

[Rik]

The pro-lines are too narrow,IMO.Not sure about the reasons why a too narrow stick is uncomfortable,you'd have to ask a chiropractor or something to know exactly why.The cx-40,for example is the ultimate stick for me,a square shape holds better in my hands.Oh yes,the position of the 2 buttons on top off the pro line is bad imo,It would have been better on the hands if placed under the stick where the name plate is,where you can use the other hand,just an overall awkward stick,uncomfortable is uncomfortable,whining or not about it.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Rik

[Atari2008]

I played my 7800 yesterday after having not touched it in over 10 years (just got it fixed), and now I see what everyone is talking about. It didn't bother me when I was little, but now those joysticks are PAINFUL! I could barely last 5 minutes. It really killed my palms. Wow the 7800 joystick was definitely ill-designed, going to invest in a pair of joypads.

[sukotsu9]

I've really tried with the ProLines, but I can't hang. I thought with constant exposure I'd build up some strength and they'd be solid performers, but no. It might be that mine are really worn out, too. They look the coolest; I remember seeing them years ago and thinking they were the "future". But the aesthetic design didn't take into account ergonomics. A modified pistol grip (didn't somebody make a joystick like this?) would've been less attractive, but easier on the left hand. A cool double trigger probably would've sold a lot of 7800s, too!

[S1500]

It seems that the great video game crash has brought us one good thing: The total end of an era of really un-ergonomic controlers. Exception: Atari Jaguar controller. It seems Atari liked to stay consistent with badly designed controllers. *sigh*

[Rybags]

I'll up the ante by saying all Atari's joysticks were crap.

 

The 2600 originals were unreliable and gave a sore thumb after some use.

 

I got a Wico in 1984 or so and still have it - good as new. It's design means it could theoretically last forever.

Only needs pulling apart once every several years to adjust/clean the leaf switches if you're unlucky.

 

But, having said "crap", you can't beat that style of joystick for old-school games where a pixel brush means losing a life - joypads just aren't responsive enough for that type of game.

[Kripto]

I suspect that the Pro-Line joysticks are the direct result of EXTREME cost-cutting...

 

I see this repulsive image in my head of some Atari exec picking it up for two seconds after being told that the cheapest sticks just weren't comfortable enough and saying "These are fine. Ship 'em."

[jbanes]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: it boils down to torque.

 

A joystick by its nature of design is going to have a lot of torque applied to it. This is not a problem when it's attached to a heavy arcade machine. But when you place it on a handheld base, it immediately begins to translate that torque to your hands. (Technically, the 2600 controllers are designed to be placed on a tabletop. Thus the rubber feet.) However, there are two factors that mitigate the torque:

 

1. The length of the shaft

2. The width of the base

 

The longer the shaft is in relation to the base, the more the torque from the stick is able to overcome the counterforce of the base. The shorter the shaft is, the more the force can be spread across a larger surface area. The same basically holds true for the base. If you increase the size of the base, you can support a longer shaft on the controller.

 

Now take a look at the 7800 Proline controllers. Thin base, long shaft. Exactly the WORST design possible for a joystick. The effect is that you end up pitting the strength of one hand against the other. The more force you apply to the stick, the more force you must apply to the base to keep the controller steady.

 

Of course, the flaws in the 7800 controllers didn't stop there. It's one thing when you're applying torque to the base of the stick. At least then you can brace your arm and use it to absorb much of the force. It's a completely separate thing when the control board is inverted! That's right, the second major flaw was that the contacts were on the BOTTOM of the joystick rather than the top! What that means is that effective gameplay requires reverse torque. Which means that you end up PULLING rather than PUSHING. This makes it nearly impossible to brace the base. You're back to fighting with yourself over the controller, except that you've lost a lot of leverage.

 

And just when you thought the design couldn't get any worse, Atari added insult to injury. The upside-down mechanism was very poor at maintaining the nubs over top of the switches. As you struggled with the joystick, you actually pushed the criss-cross inside the stick out of alignment! (One of the easiest repairs you can do with a Proline is open it up, realign the cross, and tape it in place. The results are stunning, albeit somewhat brief.) This causes players to apply even more force to the joystick just to get a direction to register!

 

End result? Tired hands, tired arms, and grumpy players.

 

What's interesting is that Atari was totally on the right path with the 5200 controllers. They had a great feel about them due to the short shaft and large base. Where they failed miserably was that the things disintegrated in your hands. If Atari had released the original Sylvia sticks (which were the base model for the 5200 sticks) I think we'd all be praising Atari's good joystick designs rather than remembering how horrid they were.

[FireTiger]

I really want someone to build me a 2 player 2 button arcade box that can plug into the 7800 or 2600 with the standard chords...I'd buy the parts and pay for labor and shipping!

[jbanes]

I really want someone to build me a 2 player 2 button arcade box that can plug into the 7800 or 2600 with the standard chords...I'd buy the parts and pay for labor and shipping!

The Goat Store used to sell an arcade-quality joystick made by an Atari Age member. I don't remember his name, but he made some kick-ass controllers for nearly every classic system. The 7800 was one of them.

 

They weighed a ton, too. Solid steel construction, cherry switches, the whole works. IIRC, his price was incredibly reasonable.

[FireTiger]

I really want someone to build me a 2 player 2 button arcade box that can plug into the 7800 or 2600 with the standard chords...I'd buy the parts and pay for labor and shipping!

The Goat Store used to sell an arcade-quality joystick made by an Atari Age member. I don't remember his name, but he made some kick-ass controllers for nearly every classic system. The 7800 was one of them.

 

They weighed a ton, too. Solid steel construction, cherry switches, the whole works. IIRC, his price was incredibly reasonable.

 

*drool*

[Almost Rice]

The Goat Store used to sell an arcade-quality joystick made by an Atari Age member. I don't remember his name, but he made some kick-ass controllers for nearly every classic system. The 7800 was one of them.

 

They weighed a ton, too. Solid steel construction, cherry switches, the whole works. IIRC, his price was incredibly reasonable.

 

Makes me want to put my 1943 joystick assembly together for the 7800. Still I would need at least 2 more buttons.

[Almost Rice]

Making an arcade quality joystick is not that hard to do. That hardest thing is the resistors. I had a few Sega Genesis extension cords laying around and got the panel for free from Cybernoid. I know I have not cleaned up the panel and am missing 2 buttons, but I wanted to see if I could get the joystick to work first. The panel has 2 Wico joystick and 2 microswitch buttons on a panel originally with a single center joystick. I used a couple of 470 Ohm resistors scavenged from a XM301. Some games autofire with this setup. I have 270 Ohm resistors that I may use in series in place of the 470.

 

Game play is like the arcade except I need to clean the leaf switches some more. I did not hook up the second joystick at first, but Robotron was calling me. I hooked up the 2nd joystick and got to 1,000,000 easily. I think I may build some more for my nieces and nephew and give them a 8bit Atari with a dozen or so carts. They feel made the games more like the arcade.

 

I will need to clean up the panel and replace the overlay with something cleaner and fill the hole somehow. I also need new buttons and switches. Maybe even a Defender/Stargate joystick.

 

Does not look like a original1943 stick.

 

Sega cables

 

Shots of the wood case back and sides.

[tremoloman2006]

Making an arcade quality joystick is not that hard to do. That hardest thing is the resistors. I had a few Sega Genesis extension cords laying around and got the panel for free from Cybernoid. I know I have not cleaned up the panel and am missing 2 buttons, but I wanted to see if I could get the joystick to work first. The panel has 2 Wico joystick and 2 microswitch buttons on a panel originally with a single center joystick. I used a couple of 470 Ohm resistors scavenged from a XM301. Some games autofire with this setup. I have 270 Ohm resistors that I may use in series in place of the 470.

 

Game play is like the arcade except I need to clean the leaf switches some more. I did not hook up the second joystick at first, but Robotron was calling me. I hooked up the 2nd joystick and got to 1,000,000 easily. I think I may build some more for my nieces and nephew and give them a 8bit Atari with a dozen or so carts. They feel made the games more like the arcade.

 

I will need to clean up the panel and replace the overlay with something cleaner and fill the hole somehow. I also need new buttons and switches. Maybe even a Defender/Stargate joystick.

 

Does not look like a original1943 stick.

 

Sega cables

 

Shots of the wood case back and sides.

 

That is awesome! MAkes me want to go build one myself so I can Robotron the way it was meant to be played!

[Almost Rice]

That is awesome! MAkes me want to go build one myself so I can Robotron the way it was meant to be played!

 

Yes, I was wondering why no one has made arcade quality sticks for sale on the 7800. I guess shipping would probably kill any profit you could make off of it. And Robotron is totally awesome now and I can't wait for the next HSC. It beats the Atari joystick holders hands down. a set of thumb joysticks could possibly a good hack for robotron also. Do any exist?

 

I am thinking of making a Defender/Stargate controller. I am still looking if I can find the original panel instead of building my own.

[Cybernoid]

This is awesome. I am happy to see my old panel used in a new life!

 

BTW, I made an ST2Jamma converter back in the day and it worked great! I had 2 joysticks and a 25" monitor connected to a Mega ST! The ST was inside the arcade cabinet... fun stuff!

[Ferret75]

In my opinion and experience...

 

1. Playing games with two buttons is akward since they are at opposite sides.

2. The joystick is very loose on direction (tricky to make it go the right way).

3. You need to push the joystick a ton to move correctly on 2600 games.