600XL NOOB

[athleos]

hey guys, this is my first post. i just bought a 600XL last night, and here is the link to the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=260212143212

i bought it because i love the POKEY and i wanted to make music with it. my question to you all is: how do i get started making music on my new 600xl and where might i find software/trackers to do it? i have emailed best electronics about purchasing the 64K memory upgrade as well as a composite video mod kit so i will hopefully have that lined up. anything else i should know? i'm super excited and can't wait to get started using this computer!

thanks.

Edited February 20, 2008 by athleos

[+bob1200xl]

You might want to try the 600XL on your TV's RF jack before you make the video mod. Some of the 600XLs look absolutely awesome thru the tuner. Depends on your TV, to a great extent.

 

Did you get a disk drive? You'll need one, as well as 64K.

 

Bob

 

 

 

hey guys, this is my first post. i just bought a 600XL last night, and here is the link to the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=260212143212

i bought it because i love the POKEY and i wanted to make music with it. my question to you all is: how do i get started making music on my new 600xl and where might i find software/trackers to do it? i have emailed best electronics about purchasing the 64K memory upgrade as well as a composite video mod kit so i will hopefully have that lined up. anything else i should know? i'm super excited and can't wait to get started using this computer!

thanks.

[athleos]

You might want to try the 600XL on your TV's RF jack before you make the video mod. Some of the 600XLs look absolutely awesome thru the tuner. Depends on your TV, to a great extent.

 

Did you get a disk drive? You'll need one, as well as 64K.

 

Bob

 

 

 

hey guys, this is my first post. i just bought a 600XL last night, and here is the link to the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=260212143212

i bought it because i love the POKEY and i wanted to make music with it. my question to you all is: how do i get started making music on my new 600xl and where might i find software/trackers to do it? i have emailed best electronics about purchasing the 64K memory upgrade as well as a composite video mod kit so i will hopefully have that lined up. anything else i should know? i'm super excited and can't wait to get started using this computer!

thanks.

i may wait on the video mod and i did not get a disk drive. i assume it's a 5.25 disc drive? are there programs for creating music on floppy?

[yorgle]

I have a 600xl that has nearly perfect video through the rf modulator, so I agree that you might want to hold off on the video mod. Also, if you're interested, I have a 1064 memory expansion that I used the case for another project. You could still plug this in and have 64k but it just wouldn't look as pretty. PM me if you're interested. I'm willing to let it go for little to nothing as long as you pay postage.

[athleos]

PM sent! thanks Yorgle! Now, i still need some help with figuring out how to make music with this thing.

[analmux]

For starters, I would recommend Raster Music Tracker (RMT).

 

It is a PC tool. When song is finished you can export it to an Atari-executable .xex or .rmt file.

 

The .xex is a stand-alone. The .rmt can be added to another atari-program, for background music....but you'd need to know assembly.

 

http://raster.infos.cz/atari/rmt/rmt.htm

 

 

...Though there might be memory issues if I'm correct. The standard .xex export maps the tune executable outside 600xl standard RAM. Then you'll surely need the expansion.

 

And, of course you'd need to have SIO2PC or something.

 

Otherwise, if you have a diskdrive, you'd need a copy of TMC maybe (Theta Music Composer). But RMT is somewhat more user-friendly.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Analogue Multiplexer

[athleos]

so as long as i use the .xex file, i will be able to just export it straight across without having to use any assembly languages?

also, i just downloaded the RMT program but on startup it said there was no 'sa_pokey.dll' library found and no 'sa_c6502.dll' library found. what do i do to fix this? is there an emulator that i need to run in conjunction with the tracker?

 

Thanks for the info by the way!

Edited February 20, 2008 by athleos

[Wrathchild]

Go for post #7 on the thread RMT supporting SA_Pokey/C6502 DLLs

[athleos]

So Cool. thanks a lot man!

[+Guitarman]

PM sent! thanks Yorgle! Now, i still need some help with figuring out how to make music with this thing.

 

 

There are 3 programs I used to write music on the 8bit back in the day. They were Bank Street Music Writer, Music Construction Set and Virtuoso Desktop Performance Studio. They were all really cool for composing. I don't think any of them were used for MIDI so all composed songs played back on the 8bit.

 

 

Bank Street Music Writer was an application for composing and playing music for Atari 8-bit, Apple II, Commodore 64 and DOS (PC). It was written by Glen Clancy and published by Mindscape. The original Atari version, developed under the name "Note Processor" was released in 1985 and used the computer's on-board sound chip to produce four-voice music recordings. The Commodore 64 version also used that system's on-board sound port, while the Apple and PC versions required a sound card that was included in the retail box (a clone of the Apple Mockingboard), or alternately use the 3-voice sound chip standard with all Tandy and PCjr computers.

Users could input sheet music (up to four voices on the Atari version and six on the PC) with the keyboard and play back the results or print it. The program also came with several pre-entered songs, including an excerpt from the Nutcracker Suite and "On Top Of Old Smokey", which form the basis of the tutorial.

 

Music Construction Set (MCS) is a music composition notation program. It was originally developed in 1984 for the Apple II, and quickly ported to other systems of the era. It was designed and developed by Will Harvey and published by Electronic Arts.

Though it is entertainment software, strictly speaking it is not a game, though it is often lumped together with them. It is also considered edutainment since users could learn a bit about music notation by using it.

Will Harvey designed and programmed the original Apple II version of the game when he was 15 and in high school. He programmed that original version in assembly language.

Music Construction Set was the prototype for much of today's scorewriting software.

 

No info found on Virtuoso

[athleos]

i have an apple IIC and i have music construction set for it but i didn't know that it was "ported" to the atari8's. i'll have to check it out. i'm really looking for something that will take full advantage of the POKEY's "synth" capabilities i.e. editable parameters etc.. sort of like P64 for the c64 or crate synth for the Apple IIC.. do any of these programs do that for the POKEY? thanks for the info! i'll check into those programs.

[analmux]

i'm really looking for something that will take full advantage of the POKEY's "synth" capabilities i.e. editable parameters etc....do any of these programs do that for the POKEY? thanks for the info! i'll check into those programs.

 

On this moment, most trackers get very far at supporting "synth", but often there are features missing.

 

F.e. RMT is very user friendly and has a lot of features. The only thing that misses, but is very important for synth features, is a way to deal with so-called 'pulsewidth' control at the start of a note. I've not heard of any other tracker that does support this.

 

It happens to be the case that, after a full year of doing Pokey tests and collecting thoughts on it, I'm trying to write a Pokey-tracker with extended synth support etc. ....so if I get lucky I may have a finished one in some time.

[mimo]

If you dont want to have a plug in board for the memory upgrade, there is a simple "onboard" upgrade to give 64k instructions can be found in this forum

[athleos]

i'm really looking for something that will take full advantage of the POKEY's "synth" capabilities i.e. editable parameters etc....do any of these programs do that for the POKEY? thanks for the info! i'll check into those programs.

 

On this moment, most trackers get very far at supporting "synth", but often there are features missing.

 

F.e. RMT is very user friendly and has a lot of features. The only thing that misses, but is very important for synth features, is a way to deal with so-called 'pulsewidth' control at the start of a note. I've not heard of any other tracker that does support this.

 

It happens to be the case that, after a full year of doing Pokey tests and collecting thoughts on it, I'm trying to write a Pokey-tracker with extended synth support etc. ....so if I get lucky I may have a finished one in some time.

very cool man! i'd like to hear more about this! i just got the Midimax from best electronics, will that be supported? i don't know very much about "pulsewidth" control but if you mean "envelope" then i understand. LSDJ, the tracker for the nintendo gameboy, allows for envelope control i.e. attack and decay etc..

[athleos]

PM sent! thanks Yorgle! Now, i still need some help with figuring out how to make music with this thing.

 

 

There are 3 programs I used to write music on the 8bit back in the day. They were Bank Street Music Writer, Music Construction Set and Virtuoso Desktop Performance Studio. They were all really cool for composing. I don't think any of them were used for MIDI so all composed songs played back on the 8bit.

 

 

Bank Street Music Writer was an application for composing and playing music for Atari 8-bit, Apple II, Commodore 64 and DOS (PC). It was written by Glen Clancy and published by Mindscape. The original Atari version, developed under the name "Note Processor" was released in 1985 and used the computer's on-board sound chip to produce four-voice music recordings. The Commodore 64 version also used that system's on-board sound port, while the Apple and PC versions required a sound card that was included in the retail box (a clone of the Apple Mockingboard), or alternately use the 3-voice sound chip standard with all Tandy and PCjr computers.

Users could input sheet music (up to four voices on the Atari version and six on the PC) with the keyboard and play back the results or print it. The program also came with several pre-entered songs, including an excerpt from the Nutcracker Suite and "On Top Of Old Smokey", which form the basis of the tutorial.

 

Music Construction Set (MCS) is a music composition notation program. It was originally developed in 1984 for the Apple II, and quickly ported to other systems of the era. It was designed and developed by Will Harvey and published by Electronic Arts.

Though it is entertainment software, strictly speaking it is not a game, though it is often lumped together with them. It is also considered edutainment since users could learn a bit about music notation by using it.

Will Harvey designed and programmed the original Apple II version of the game when he was 15 and in high school. He programmed that original version in assembly language.

Music Construction Set was the prototype for much of today's scorewriting software.

 

No info found on Virtuoso

do i need to search ebay for the discs or is there a website that has all the disc images of programs like this? the reason i ask is that i don't have a 1050 disc drive and the prices are a little steep these days. i'm thinking of getting a hold of a sio2pc.

[analmux]

...very cool man! i'd like to hear more about this! i just got the Midimax from best electronics, will that be supported? i don't know very much about "pulsewidth" control but if you mean "envelope" then i understand. LSDJ, the tracker for the nintendo gameboy, allows for envelope control i.e. attack and decay etc..

 

I don't know exactly what a Midimax is, but if you mean some kind of MIDI-interface to play music directly on Pokey using a MIDI-keyboard, then the answer would be no, at least for now.

 

As far as I know, and I did once do MIDI tests, the MIDI uses a serial protocol which can be connected to the SIO port directly (same port as disk drive or cassette). There's one issue though. SIO also makes use of Pokey's sound-channels, thus will interfere a little with the music you'd like to play on it. But, if Midimax is a non-SIO interface, then there wouldn't be any problems I suppose.

 

On the other hand, as Pokey has only 4 channels, and combining them for synth, only 2 are left, it's hardly worth it to connect a midi-keyboard anyway. The standard ATARI keyboard can also be used. You'd be restricted to monophonic music. At least, using the atari-keyboard you won't be able to play chords, but only single notes.

 

The tracker I'd like to make would at least support direct playing with the Atari-keyboard....also in combinations with playing a background track on f.e. voices 2 and 4, while playing voices 1&3 live by yourself. (voice 1&3 combine to give one synth voice)

 

Don't expect my tracker to support such high-level stuff as MIDI-controllers etc. though.

 

 

About envelope. It's a general notion. You can f.e. have 'volume envelope', but also 'filter envelope','note envelope','pitch envelope' and 'distortion envelope'.

 

-volume envelope is what's also known as ADSR

-filter envelope or pulsewidth envelope let's you dynamically specify the soundcolour of a note: this is used for synths

-note envelope is used for things like arpeggios

-pitch envelope is used for things like portamento and vibrato

-distortion envelope lets you specify dynamically if you want pure tones or noise, f.e. used in percussions

 

(in fact filter envelope and pitch envelope are closely related, but that's purely technical)

 

It's my aim to support all these types of envelopes, also independently if the user wants it.

 

....but I don't like to make any promises, as it's a spare time project. Fact is though that the first good reason for me to code this is that I'd like to use it myself, as I'm curious of how pokey can sound with full Hardsynth features with correct tuning corrections.

Edited February 24, 2008 by Analogue Multiplexer

[athleos]

...very cool man! i'd like to hear more about this! i just got the Midimax from best electronics, will that be supported? i don't know very much about "pulsewidth" control but if you mean "envelope" then i understand. LSDJ, the tracker for the nintendo gameboy, allows for envelope control i.e. attack and decay etc..

 

I don't know exactly what a Midimax is, but if you mean some kind of MIDI-interface to play music directly on Pokey using a MIDI-keyboard, then the answer would be no, at least for now.

 

As far as I know, and I did once do MIDI tests, the MIDI uses a serial protocol which can be connected to the SIO port directly (same port as disk drive or cassette). There's one issue though. SIO also makes use of Pokey's sound-channels, thus will interfere a little with the music you'd like to play on it. But, if Midimax is a non-SIO interface, then there wouldn't be any problems I suppose.

 

On the other hand, as Pokey has only 4 channels, and combining them for synth, only 2 are left, it's hardly worth it to connect a midi-keyboard anyway. The standard ATARI keyboard can also be used. You'd be restricted to monophonic music. At least, using the atari-keyboard you won't be able to play chords, but only single notes.

 

The tracker I'd like to make would at least support direct playing with the Atari-keyboard....also in combinations with playing a background track on f.e. voices 2 and 4, while playing voices 1&3 live by yourself. (voice 1&3 combine to give one synth voice)

 

Don't expect my tracker to support such high-level stuff as MIDI-controllers etc. though.

 

 

About envelope. It's a general notion. You can f.e. have 'volume envelope', but also 'filter envelope','note envelope','pitch envelope' and 'distortion envelope'.

 

-volume envelope is what's also known as ADSR

-filter envelope or pulsewidth envelope let's you dynamically specify the soundcolour of a note: this is used for synths

-note envelope is used for things like arpeggios

-pitch envelope is used for things like portamento and vibrato

-distortion envelope lets you specify dynamically if you want pure tones or noise, f.e. used in percussions

 

(in fact filter envelope and pitch envelope are closely related, but that's purely technical)

 

It's my aim to support all these types of envelopes, also independently if the user wants it.

 

....but I don't like to make any promises, as it's a spare time project. Fact is though that the first good reason for me to code this is that I'd like to use it myself, as I'm curious of how pokey can sound with full Hardsynth features with correct tuning corrections.

 

the Midimax is a midi interface designed by Wizztronics for the atari 8 bit family computers. best-electronics-ca.com is selling the remaining "new-old stock" so i figured i give it a try. it looks to me like the interface connects via a Joyport and has IO connectivity as well. i'm not totally sure though and am open to whatever i can find when it comes to making music with my 600XL.

Well as far as the tracker is concerned, it sounds like you're on the right track to me. thanks for the envelope clarification, it is something that i need to know more about! I'd really like to be a "guinea pig" if you ever want to test the tracker out. i'm totally on board whenever you do get it finished. it sounds awesome! keep me updated!

[charliecron]

I have the Midimax. It does not connect via the joystick port. It's a standard SIO device. What it will do though, is send a sync pulse to the joystick port. I guess its used to sync up a drum machine.

 

Charlie

Edited February 24, 2008 by charliecron

[analmux]

Well as far as the tracker is concerned, it sounds like you're on the right track to me. thanks for the envelope clarification, it is something that i need to know more about! I'd really like to be a "guinea pig" if you ever want to test the tracker out. i'm totally on board whenever you do get it finished. it sounds awesome! keep me updated!

 

As a matter of fact, I'm rather surprised (positively) to hear that anyone besides me is interested in a Hardsynth tracker.

 

At the time that I finish you'll be one of the guys that I'll inform. If you'd like to do tests, you're also welcome. First thing I need to do now is configuring a suitable data-format for Hardsynth Tracks.

 

My tracker is aimed for the real machine (i.e. it's not a PC-tool), because the current Pokey emulation does not support some features I need, and because I can't code PC tools

 

 

Anyway, I'm curious. How did you get enthousiastic about Pokey? Ever heard Pokey playing synth style tunes?

Edited February 24, 2008 by Analogue Multiplexer

[athleos]

Well as far as the tracker is concerned, it sounds like you're on the right track to me. thanks for the envelope clarification, it is something that i need to know more about! I'd really like to be a "guinea pig" if you ever want to test the tracker out. i'm totally on board whenever you do get it finished. it sounds awesome! keep me updated!

 

As a matter of fact, I'm rather surprised (positively) to hear that anyone besides me is interested in a Hardsynth tracker.

 

At the time that I finish you'll be one of the guys that I'll inform. If you'd like to do tests, you're also welcome. First thing I need to do now is configuring a suitable data-format for Hardsynth Tracks.

 

My tracker is aimed for the real machine (i.e. it's not a PC-tool), because the current Pokey emulation does not support some features I need, and because I can't code PC tools

 

 

Anyway, I'm curious. How did you get enthousiastic about Pokey? Ever heard Pokey playing synth style tunes?

 

Yes, let me know. as far as getting into pokey music, i'm a classically trained composer but grew up around video games, i.e. arcade games, atari 2600 and NES. i wanted to be able to use the sounds that i was familiar with from my younger days, but the synths that i have all sound too, "sophisticated." i was messing around with my atari 2600 using synthcart but it was severely limited by what notes were available as well as what key one could use. long story short, i decided to search for other ways to get the atari sound (which is my favorite) and discovered the POKEY. i haven't heard much of the POKEY in action but what i have heard i really like. plus, the 8 bit computers seem to play games better than the 2600 which is a big deal to me.

[athleos]

I have the Midimax. It does not connect via the joystick port. It's a standard SIO device. What it will do though, is send a sync pulse to the joystick port. I guess its used to sync up a drum machine.

 

Charlie

 

do you use it much? i'm just curious how well it works and what one can actually do with it.

[charliecron]

I have the Midimax. It does not connect via the joystick port. It's a standard SIO device. What it will do though, is send a sync pulse to the joystick port. I guess its used to sync up a drum machine.

 

Charlie

 

do you use it much? i'm just curious how well it works and what one can actually do with it.

 

I don't use it so much. It works very well though. The MIDI Music System, the software that comes with it, is fantastic. I don't have a real MIDI keyboard, just a synth module, the Roland MT-32, so I have to enter commands into the software to fire off notes. But it will take input from a midi keyboard as well, I don't know how well though. The software is out there in the various collections, so you can at least boot it up and see if you like the interface. I've been able to do some cool stuff with the software, even without a keyboard. I can change volume, instrument, pitch bends, stereo controls, reverb and such from the 8bit! Every 'midi command' the MT-32 supports I've been able to change from just the software and 8bit. And given that I know very little about MIDI, thats quite an accomplishment, and a testament to the software. Whatever that means..

 

Charlie

[UNIXcoffee928]

I have the Midimax. It does not connect via the joystick port. It's a standard SIO device. What it will do though, is send a sync pulse to the joystick port. I guess its used to sync up a drum machine.

 

Charlie

 

Both my Roland JX-3P and Roland TR-707 have an option to use a sync pulse like that. As far as I know, all of the Roland TR-x0x Drum modules support the old-style sync pulse.

 

The cool thing about the JX-3P & 707 is that they can use the sync pulse AND use MIDI triggering.

 

The JX-3P uses the pulse to set the timing of the built-in sequencer, so it can be synced to an older, non-MIDI drum machine. If you buy a JX-3P be sure to get the PG-200 programmer also, which makes it a great synth. Without it, it is EXTREMELY limited (which is why it doesn't have a great reputation), but the same thing goes for the Alpha Junos, and all of the MKS rack gear. Having a programmer hooked up to those machines is what makes them ultra-special.

 

Be sure to check out the "8-bit Synth" thread, we are discussing the design requirements of an Atari-based synth.

 

 

L8R.

[Beetle]

As a matter of fact, I'm rather surprised (positively) to hear that anyone besides me is interested in a Hardsynth tracker.

 

Ohh!, I am highly interested too! Please add me to betatesters... :-)

I like your decision for an a8 tracker running on a8. Especially because

i know you would take care of hardsynth method properly implemented.

 

@ athleos:

I used to make some little music with Chaos Music Composer,

which is quite user-friendly. Perfect for some first Pokey composing.

I suggest you get a SIO2PC interface. Its most useful for the buck.

IF you have one download CMC here, if you want to give it a try.

It has built in instruments to play around with and some very nice

demo songs, too. Of course it does not support the extended synth

capabilities analmux's upcoming tracker aims for.

[athleos]

As a matter of fact, I'm rather surprised (positively) to hear that anyone besides me is interested in a Hardsynth tracker.

 

Ohh!, I am highly interested too! Please add me to betatesters... :-)

I like your decision for an a8 tracker running on a8. Especially because

i know you would take care of hardsynth method properly implemented.

 

@ athleos:

I used to make some little music with Chaos Music Composer,

which is quite user-friendly. Perfect for some first Pokey composing.

I suggest you get a SIO2PC interface. Its most useful for the buck.

IF you have one download CMC here, if you want to give it a try.

It has built in instruments to play around with and some very nice

demo songs, too. Of course it does not support the extended synth

capabilities analmux's upcoming tracker aims for.

 

thanks for the advice and the link man. i'll definitely check it out. i've been considering getting a sio2pc interface for a while now but just hadn't committed to the idea yet. will the sio2pc work with PC running on WIN2000? i've had a few issues with WIN2000 and HDD64 for my c64 interface so i was just curious.