Can anyone show some comparison shots of the XL's and XE's video output?

[Ross PK]

I've heard that the XL's video is crappy and the XE's is great. I'd like to see a comparison.

[mimo]

can't show you, but I can give my opinion.

XL is poor in standard form, but with a very easy mod the video is better than the XE IMO.

In standard form the XE gives an over powered image, which I do not like at all.

The 800 is the best

[+Larry]

I've heard that the XL's video is crappy and the XE's is great. I'd like to see a comparison.

 

Here's some screen shots and opinions...

 

Notes:

*I don't have an 800XL modded just for S-Video. So I can only show you color with the composite.

*Also included is a comparison shot of the 130XE with the Chroma turned all the way down to compare to the stock 800XL S-video.

*The other comparisons are pretty much self-explanatory.

*The "Super Video" mods were published in Atari Classics. Although the SV mods are not difficult, it does require a fair amount of soldering. You must (mainly) replace resistors with *different values or "piggyback" resistors on top of the originals to provide the new desired values.

* You can improve the 800XL video greatly by connecting the Chroma wire to the video jack *and* clipping one small cap.

*One difficulty that I have seen consistently in the XL's is lack of color saturation and lack of "green tint" in the green-blues. I have never seen this in an XE.

*All of the "SuperVideo" mods overdrive the screens slightly. My standard video setup includes variable resistors on both the Chroma and Luma lines, although I seldom re-adjust them.

*Taiwan XL's video is pretty much equivalent to the stock XE. Although the SuperVideo articles play down the improvements in the Taiwan and XE models, IMO it is quite substantial.

* Last, all of this is subject to manufacturing variation and age/condition. Some XE's are slightly better than others. Some 800's are slightly better than others. Etc.

 

 

 

-Larry

[Ransom]

The 800 is the best

 

You've obviously never seen a supervideo upgraded 1200XL.

[Ross PK]

Thanks for the screen shots Larry.

 

I've noticed on all of them that when you zoom in you can see fine vertical lines on the screen.

 

These are quite prominent on my 800XL, because the video output has aged there was a slight ghosting. There was some slight fuzzyness as well I think.

 

I now use a scart lead connected to the monitor output which has fixed everything, except the vertical lines are still there. I don't think they are as prominent as what they were though.

Edited March 26, 2008 by Ross PK

[+Larry]

Thanks for the screen shots Larry.

 

I've noticed on all of them that when you zoom in you can see fine vertical lines on the screen.

 

These are quite prominent on my 800XL, because the video output has aged there was a slight ghosting. There was some slight fuzzyness as well I think.

 

I now use a scart lead connected to the monitor output which has fixed everything, except the vertical lines are still there. I don't think they are as prominent as what they were though.

 

 

Hi Ross-

 

You're very welcome.

 

Yes, I've noticed the lines, also. Using my little variable resistor box allows me to mitigate them, somewhat. IIRC, these are the "signature pulses" of the color clock as GTIA draws the picture across the scan lines. (?) If I'm off base here, someone please correct me. On some monitors/video setups, these are not all that noticeable. On SVGA (capture) screen, it is usually pretty obvious.

 

I can add one other little tidbit. I recently replaced both the power jack and the monitor jack on my "main" ~1985 130XE. The monitor jack was still in pretty good shape, but the power jack was getting fairly loose, and that was affecting the colors on the display. Those changes definitely made an incremental difference in the video.

 

-Larry

[Osbo]

Yeah, I had an XEGS and the video was much better than in the old 800XL, I have never seen a original 800 connected with the A/V.

[Ross PK]

Thanks for the screen shots Larry.

 

I've noticed on all of them that when you zoom in you can see fine vertical lines on the screen.

 

These are quite prominent on my 800XL, because the video output has aged there was a slight ghosting. There was some slight fuzzyness as well I think.

 

I now use a scart lead connected to the monitor output which has fixed everything, except the vertical lines are still there. I don't think they are as prominent as what they were though.

 

 

Hi Ross-

 

You're very welcome.

 

Yes, I've noticed the lines, also. Using my little variable resistor box allows me to mitigate them, somewhat. IIRC, these are the "signature pulses" of the color clock as GTIA draws the picture across the scan lines. (?) If I'm off base here, someone please correct me. On some monitors/video setups, these are not all that noticeable. On SVGA (capture) screen, it is usually pretty obvious.

 

I can add one other little tidbit. I recently replaced both the power jack and the monitor jack on my "main" ~1985 130XE. The monitor jack was still in pretty good shape, but the power jack was getting fairly loose, and that was affecting the colors on the display. Those changes definitely made an incremental difference in the video.

 

-Larry

 

Interesting. By power jack you mean the end of the power lead that plugs into the system? Maybe I should check it, I don't think it looks or feels loose though, otherwise I'm sure I would have noticed it.

Edited March 26, 2008 by Ross PK

[HiassofT]

The monitor jack was still in pretty good shape, but the power jack was getting fairly loose, and that was affecting the colors on the display.

I can confirm this, I had a similar problem on my main (PAL) 800XL a few weeks ago. The 800XL still worked fine, but sometimes the color saturation went down to almost B/W. Fiddling around with the power cord then fixed it again. Actually, the power jack was still OK (and contact cleaner didn't have any effect), but the solder joints on the PCB were going bad. So I took out the PCB, re-soldered the connections of the power jack and everything was fine again.

 

so long,

 

Hias

[mimo]

The 800 is the best

 

You've obviously never seen a supervideo upgraded 1200XL.

well as I have had 2 s-video moded 1200xl's, a super video one that I sold and a clear pic one that I still have I still say that the 800 is the cleanest clearest nicest picture

[mimo]

Thanks for the screen shots Larry.

 

I've noticed on all of them that when you zoom in you can see fine vertical lines on the screen.

 

These are quite prominent on my 800XL, because the video output has aged there was a slight ghosting. There was some slight fuzzyness as well I think.

 

I now use a scart lead connected to the monitor output which has fixed everything, except the vertical lines are still there. I don't think they are as prominent as what they were though.

Ross, if you do this Quick & Easy Video Upgrade for 800xl the lines are practically eradicated by separating the +5v supply to the video circuits from the clock oscillators.

This mod is really easy, and involves piggy backing 4 resistors and cutting a couple of components out.

Believe me I am no expert at this stuff, but it took me half an hour and the results are well worth the effort. I had not done any electronics or soldering before doing this btw

[+Larry]

Interesting. By power jack you mean the end of the power lead that plugs into the system? Maybe I should check it, I don't think it looks or feels loose though, otherwise I'm sure I would have noticed it.

 

I think what you are referring to would be the "plug" and I would call the PCB port as the "jack." Wasn't it Churchill that said "...two nations divided by a common language?"

 

And as Hias mentions, I was also fiddling around with the power cord to get the color correct. Tried contact cleaner -- no effect. Got out the pliers (!) -- maybe a little better, but still not right. "Transplant surgery" fixed it!

 

-Larry

[Ransom]

well as I have had 2 s-video moded 1200xl's, a super video one that I sold and a clear pic one that I still have I still say that the 800 is the cleanest clearest nicest picture

 

It's been a long time since I've had an 800. It's just so much nicer to put an XL on a keyboard drawer in a typical desk than to have the 800 sitting in front of the monitor. Good to hear the stock video circuits are so good!

[a8isa1]

The monitor jack was still in pretty good shape, but the power jack was getting fairly loose, and that was affecting the colors on the display.

I can confirm this, I had a similar problem on my main (PAL) 800XL a few weeks ago. The 800XL still worked fine, but sometimes the color saturation went down to almost B/W. Fiddling around with the power cord then fixed it again. Actually, the power jack was still OK (and contact cleaner didn't have any effect), but the solder joints on the PCB were going bad. So I took out the PCB, re-soldered the connections of the power jack and everything was fine again.

 

so long,

 

Hias

I had a similar problem. Just barely bumping the power cord caused the display to go to black and white OR look mostly blue (but faded) OR go out completely.

 

Honestly, I thought the connector was bad but took a chance and re-solder the joints. That's all that was needed.

 

 

- Steve Sheppard

[Urchlay]

It's been a long time since I've had an 800. It's just so much nicer to put an XL on a keyboard drawer in a typical desk than to have the 800 sitting in front of the monitor. Good to hear the stock video circuits are so good!

 

The keyboard drawer in a typical desk will fall out of the desk if you put anything as heavy as an 800XL on it... it probably won't happen right away, oh no, it'll wait until you least expect it, and then drop your vintage computer on the floor...

 

Seriously, I wouldn't trust a keyboard tray even with a modern lightweight keyboard, I've never used one that didn't fall out. It's not just modern ones that have this problem: my 800XL really did get dropped on the floor in about 1987 (and it was then that I found out I'd forgotten to put the screws back in after taking the XL apart, so it split in two pieces... no permanent damage tho)

[Hornpipe2]

I just completed the 130XE Super Video mod described here: http://www.retrocomputing.net/parts/atari/...cs/sv130-1.html There are two errors that caused me confusion for a while: the resistor in Step 4 R204 is next to Q3 (not Q2), and the resistor R202 in Step 5 is next to Q2 (not Q3).

 

It was a pretty simple mod, but be careful around the big electrolytic caps, as I broke the lead on one of them accidentally and had to repair it. The results weren't as dramatic as I had hoped, but as pictured above it does greatly brighten up the picture (especially white text), so for such a small cost of parts and effort I'd say it is worth it. I wasn't unhappy with the video quality of my 130XE before, but I am always in search of that better image quality.

 

By far the best thing you can do to improve the video quality of your Atari experience is to switch to S-Video. Building a cable for this is much easier and the results are a vast improvement.

Edited April 13, 2008 by Hornpipe2