How *should* an NTSC 7800 behave in PAL-land?

[Peran]

Hi!

 

I live in PAL-land, but recently found an NTSC 7800 that was so cheap I couldn't resist buying it.

 

Turns out there was a reason the machine was cheap, it's pretty beat up. Problem is, this is the first NTSC console I own that doesn't have a SCART cable, and I just don't know what to expect.

 

Power shouldn't be a problem, I've soldered the original connector to a wall wart with the correct specs, and the machine starts up fine, and after some alcohol-soaked cotton swabbing on the carts, it boots fine, and I can play my (NTSC) 7800 carts.

 

I have two (PAL) TV sets, one of which only shows the image in black&white (which, I assume, is to be expected), but what puzzles me is the audio. All I get is a noisy hum, no sign of audio underneath, i e nothing happens when I shoot the aliens in Galaga (or get shot by them). The hum is the same, even on the TV set that does give me a color image.

 

Also, when I plug in a 2600 cart, I get a really bad picture, kinda like the TV channel adjustor is off by quite a bit.

 

So the theory here is that the TIA is bad, which would seem to explain the humming sound and the poor 2600 mode image quality. Or what do you think?

 

Do any of you guys have any experience with running an NTSC 7800 in PAL-land?

 

 

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

Peran.

[Rybags]

There's probably buzzing instead of normal audio due to the RF signal seperation between audio and video.

 

Even with PAL, there's different standards there - e.g. the Australian system is different to England, so certain devices will have trouble through RF.

 

Modern TVs tend to handle NTSC just fine - my cheap LG from 1999 handles anything I throw at it, e.g. I can send pure NTSC from the computer, and any PAL flavour from it or some of my STB type devices.

 

Your best bet would either be a cheap newer TV or a capture card on the computer. An A/V mod for the console would be handy too.

[Peran]

There's probably buzzing instead of normal audio due to the RF signal seperation between audio and video.

 

Even with PAL, there's different standards there - e.g. the Australian system is different to England, so certain devices will have trouble through RF.

 

That's quite possible. I'm in Sweden, I should've added.

 

But still, if it's just a separation issue, shouldn't I be able to hear the sound somewhere in the background?

 

Modern TVs tend to handle NTSC just fine - my cheap LG from 1999 handles anything I throw at it, e.g. I can send pure NTSC from the computer, and any PAL flavour from it or some of my STB type devices.

 

Your best bet would either be a cheap newer TV or a capture card on the computer. An A/V mod for the console would be handy too.

 

The TV set that does show colors is a 2008 LG (cheap, but great).

 

The A/V mod you mention, would that be the Chroma/Luma mod I've seen floating around, or something more useful (like a standard composite I could just throw into a SCART connector)?

 

 

Peran.

Edited May 26, 2008 by Peran

[Rybags]

Chroma/Luma together is composite.

 

With RF, you shouldn't necessarily get audio, but if you can tune manually you might pick the audio up, however the video might degrade to static.

 

I've got some schematics but have yet to start an A/V mod on mine - I wanted to combine the best features of a couple of the mods before proceding.

 

As a stopgap, you could just do an audio-out mod - should be fairly simple as 90%+ of the work in an A/V mod is the Video circuit.

 

Also note that there's at least 2 different versions of the motherboard (disregarding whether or not it has the expansion connector) - you might find pictures/guides that refer to an entirely different layout to what you have.

[Peran]

Chroma/Luma together is composite.

 

A-ha! I humbly thank you for that little piece of info! I imagined Chroma/Luma would be YUV or some other exotic format. I know now better, thanks to you!

 

As a stopgap, you could just do an audio-out mod - should be fairly simple as 90%+ of the work in an A/V mod is the Video circuit.

 

Not a bad idea. It would certainly answer the question I guess I'm *really* asking, which is "should I bother getting another NTSC machine, or just get a (more expensive) PAL one".

 

Also note that there's at least 2 different versions of the motherboard (disregarding whether or not it has the expansion connector) - you might find pictures/guides that refer to an entirely different layout to what you have.

 

Ooops, thanks for that info too, I'll be sure to dig around before I bring out the soldering iron. Thanks!

 

 

Peran.

[Rybags]

Well, another machine would mean 2 sets of games you'd need to establish.

 

I got my machine through patience - they're pretty rare here and maybe 1-3 a week hit eBay. Got a minimal setup with power wart and controllers only - I wasn't bothered since I can now just buy the games and extras I want.

 

I was initially going to only bother doing the A/V mod to the 7800 video circuit but now I've got several 2600 games, so ruling that out.

 

Also, my motivation for doing the mod is that the RF jack on my unit is worn and gives a very poor signal.

 

What gets me though is why someone hasn't yet worked out how you could just tap a composite signal somehow from inside the RF modulator.

[mimo]

I would get a video mod from 8bit domain (thats what I did) then the 7800 is compatible with all of the 7800 games, there are a few that the PAL system cant play either at all or some problems. Also the colours on the games are "correct" on the NTSC 7800, some colours are way off on a PAL system.

I have got PAL, SECAM and NTSC 7800s. I use the NTSC one all the time, and the others when people ask for compatibility testing on homebrews/hacks.

[Peran]

I would get a video mod from 8bit domain (thats what I did) then the 7800 is compatible with all of the 7800 games, there are a few that the PAL system cant play either at all or some problems. Also the colours on the games are "correct" on the NTSC 7800, some colours are way off on a PAL system.

I have got PAL, SECAM and NTSC 7800s. I use the NTSC one all the time, and the others when people ask for compatibility testing on homebrews/hacks.

 

Thanks a lot for that tip! That kit seems to be well worth the money.

 

BTW, you being in the UK, can you verify that bad audio (noisy humming, no "real" audio audible) is to be expected when running an NTSC 7800 on a PAL TV set?

 

 

Peran.

[mimo]

I would get a video mod from 8bit domain (thats what I did) then the 7800 is compatible with all of the 7800 games, there are a few that the PAL system cant play either at all or some problems. Also the colours on the games are "correct" on the NTSC 7800, some colours are way off on a PAL system.

I have got PAL, SECAM and NTSC 7800s. I use the NTSC one all the time, and the others when people ask for compatibility testing on homebrews/hacks.

 

Thanks a lot for that tip! That kit seems to be well worth the money.

 

BTW, you being in the UK, can you verify that bad audio (noisy humming, no "real" audio audible) is to be expected when running an NTSC 7800 on a PAL TV set?

 

 

Peran.

 

I get nothing at all on my PAL tv

[Peran]

I get nothing at all on my PAL tv

 

Neither picture nor sound?

 

 

Peran.

[gambler172]

Hi Peran

I have no problem with NTSC or PAL.My TV can detect both and both systems run very well.But a video mod is a great solution.I also have a SECAM system from France and this works well too.

greetings Walter

Edited May 26, 2008 by gambler172

[mimo]

I get nothing at all on my PAL tv

 

Neither picture nor sound?

 

 

Peran.

Nope, but my TV is PAL-I, it will only do the other flavours of PAL and NTSC via an AV connection, I get no output at all via RF.

Some people get over this problem by running the 7800 through a video recorder first, as some VCR's can manage the NTSC signal.

I'm sure I saw a "how to" to get the sound problem sorted out, but I can't find the link anywhere

[Peran]

Thanks so much for all your replies! I'll just have to bite the bullet and get a new NTSC 7800. Heh, it could be an excuse to get some more carts at the same time...

 

 

Peran.

[mimo]

try Igg1na he usually has something to sell that is tested and working.

If you want to pick up a load of games to play, try atari2600.com, the wounded soldiers section is a bargain if you dont mind missing/damaged labels. And they don't gouge on shipping.

 

Also I have some NTSC duplicates if you are interested.(2600 and 7800)

 

Mike

[Peran]

try Igg1na he usually has something to sell that is tested and working.

If you want to pick up a load of games to play, try atari2600.com, the wounded soldiers section is a bargain if you dont mind missing/damaged labels. And they don't gouge on shipping.

 

Also I have some NTSC duplicates if you are interested.(2600 and 7800)

 

Man, I cannot believe how friendly you guys are! I have a couple of objects I'm watching at eBay, but if they don't work out I'll follow your tips. Thanks!

 

 

Peran.

[Jobf]

I would get a video mod from 8bit domain (thats what I did) then the 7800 is compatible with all of the 7800 games, there are a few that the PAL system cant play either at all or some problems. Also the colours on the games are "correct" on the NTSC 7800, some colours are way off on a PAL system.

I have got PAL, SECAM and NTSC 7800s. I use the NTSC one all the time, and the others when people ask for compatibility testing on homebrews/hacks.

 

Thanks a lot for that tip! That kit seems to be well worth the money.

 

BTW, you being in the UK, can you verify that bad audio (noisy humming, no "real" audio audible) is to be expected when running an NTSC 7800 on a PAL TV set?

 

 

Peran.

 

Yes, that is what I get with an NTSC 7800 connected to a PAL TV via RF. (i.e. black and white picture and a hum)

I had my NTSC 7800 modded for composite and audio out - then it will work with any PAL TV that is stated as being 'NTSC compatible'

NTSC via RF on a PAL TV is a whole different thing - you would need a NTSC tuner in your TV for a NTSC 7800 to work. You can get these (multistandard TVs), but you are better off getting your 7800 modded.

[thomasholzer]

Open the 7800 and adjust the little hex pin with a red top until the sound is clear, maybe it works.

Edited May 29, 2008 by thomasholzer