Lost Jaguar protos?

[Gunstar]

If there is such a shortage of Jag CD players to go around, how come I have NEVER searched for Jaguar items on E-bay and NOT seen at least a couple Jaguar CD units up for auction. There are several for auction right now.

 

I know far more Jag base units exist than CD units, but obviously there seems to be enough to go around the current Jaguar community. Anyone who wants one can go to E-bay right now and bid on one.

Edited June 9, 2008 by Gunstar

[BuddyBuddies]

If there is such a shortage of Jag CD players to go around, how come I have NEVER searched for Jaguar items on E-bay and NOT seen at least a couple Jaguar CD units up for auction. There are several for auction right now.

 

I know far more Jag base units exist than CD units, but obviously there seems to be enough to go around the current Jaguar community. Anyone who wants one can go to E-bay right now and bid on one.

there are fewer cd units the consoles for sure,but i agree,they are always on ebay and arent as scarce as people seem to think.

[BuddyBuddies]

These games are Genny and SNES quality in the graphics department.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The only way they say Jag is by screaming 'cheap port' look

 

Doesn't matter, we all know Buddies buys twenty of anything.

 

 

Then he'll probably hate my policy of one to a customer. Just a step

to keep the e-whores at bay in the hopes that they might think twice

about selling it realizing they may never get another copy again.

 

We need more CD players. That would help big time right there.

i thought you guys decided to sell them on ebay with a buy it now so people couldnt e-whore the game? eitherway i hope to get atleast one copy!

[Pete5125]

These games are Genny and SNES quality in the graphics department.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The only way they say Jag is by screaming 'cheap port' look

 

Doesn't matter, we all know Buddies buys twenty of anything.

 

 

Then he'll probably hate my policy of one to a customer. Just a step

to keep the e-whores at bay in the hopes that they might think twice

about selling it realizing they may never get another copy again.

 

We need more CD players. That would help big time right there.

i thought you guys decided to sell them on ebay with a buy it now so people couldnt e-whore the game? eitherway i hope to get atleast one copy!

 

I think the reason you see alot of CD drives on e-bay is that if you are an everage Jag owner and can't figure out how to download homebrews like me(I download them but they never work, even though I own the Protector cart). Then their are very few legit Jag CD Games, 1/2 are games that are cartoon FMV w/ limited playback value(Space Ace, Dragons Lair, Myst, Brain Dead 13), theirs Blue Lightning (a bad After Burner Rip OFF), and Primal Range (an old arcade game that you either hate or love. Which leaves the Jag-CD being good for 4 games (Hoverstrike and Battlemorph),(IS2 and World Series Racing but both are in the $80 range)

 

So if you can get a $100 or more, for it then why not unless your in love w/ any of the above games, but after a while you have played them to death.

 

But you would think enouth old 2X Cd Roms were out their so that a Jag CD unit could be home maded rather cheaply

[Gorf]

These games are Genny and SNES quality in the graphics department.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The only way they say Jag is by screaming 'cheap port' look

 

Doesn't matter, we all know Buddies buys twenty of anything.

 

 

Then he'll probably hate my policy of one to a customer. Just a step

to keep the e-whores at bay in the hopes that they might think twice

about selling it realizing they may never get another copy again.

 

We need more CD players. That would help big time right there.

i thought you guys decided to sell them on ebay with a buy it now so people couldnt e-whore the game? eitherway i hope to get atleast one copy!

 

 

Well only when we saw someone trying to e-whore it would we bother.

[BuddyBuddies]

These games are Genny and SNES quality in the graphics department.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The only way they say Jag is by screaming 'cheap port' look

 

Doesn't matter, we all know Buddies buys twenty of anything.

 

 

Then he'll probably hate my policy of one to a customer. Just a step

to keep the e-whores at bay in the hopes that they might think twice

about selling it realizing they may never get another copy again.

 

We need more CD players. That would help big time right there.

i thought you guys decided to sell them on ebay with a buy it now so people couldnt e-whore the game? eitherway i hope to get atleast one copy!

 

 

Well only when we saw someone trying to e-whore it would we bother.

ill be happy with 1 copy ,its been so long since a new Jag game has been released.....

[JagChris]

Holy christ. Buddybuddies, I've been a member of this forum since '03 and already you've spazzed out and gotten a higher post count than me.

[Gunstar]

These games are Genny and SNES quality in the graphics department.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The only way they say Jag is by screaming 'cheap port' look

 

Doesn't matter, we all know Buddies buys twenty of anything.

 

 

Then he'll probably hate my policy of one to a customer. Just a step

to keep the e-whores at bay in the hopes that they might think twice

about selling it realizing they may never get another copy again.

 

We need more CD players. That would help big time right there.

i thought you guys decided to sell them on ebay with a buy it now so people couldnt e-whore the game? eitherway i hope to get atleast one copy!

 

I think the reason you see alot of CD drives on e-bay is that if you are an everage Jag owner and can't figure out how to download homebrews like me(I download them but they never work, even though I own the Protector cart). Then their are very few legit Jag CD Games, 1/2 are games that are cartoon FMV w/ limited playback value(Space Ace, Dragons Lair, Myst, Brain Dead 13), theirs Blue Lightning (a bad After Burner Rip OFF), and Primal Range (an old arcade game that you either hate or love. Which leaves the Jag-CD being good for 4 games (Hoverstrike and Battlemorph),(IS2 and World Series Racing but both are in the $80 range)

 

So if you can get a $100 or more, for it then why not unless your in love w/ any of the above games, but after a while you have played them to death.

 

But you would think enouth old 2X Cd Roms were out their so that a Jag CD unit could be home maded rather cheaply

 

Well, assuming that what you say is the case, it still comes back to the fact that there isn't a shortage of CD units, and won't be, if people get bored and sell them off.

 

But any true Jag fan knows that the Jag CD is a must becuase of those 4 "good" games you mentioned, they are my top favorites above ALL cartridge games. I found by selling my Jaguar CD before that my interest in the Jaguar took a nose-dive without it. I got one back as soon as I could, which, by the way, there was no problem getting one when I wanted it. I can't imagine owning a Jaguar without Battlemorph, Iron Soldier 2, WTR and Hoverstrike CD.

 

The bottom line is there is no shortage becuase the demand is less than supply. That may change if we continue to get more Jaguar CD games. But most people who will buy these new games already have Jaguar CD's. I see no reason to worry about hombrew Jag CD units until the demand is greater than the supply of Jag CD units out there now.

 

But, play a game to death?!?!? You are ON A CLASSIC GAMING SITE!!!!!!!!!! If great classic games could be "played to death" then sites like Atari Age wouldn't EXIST!!!! Great games never die and people never get bored of them. I have been playing classic atari games for 30 years! They are STILL, far from me "playing them to death" (and yes, I mean it in the same sense as you, I'm not talking about the actual media dying, that does happen, unfortunately). And my Jaguar CD unit and the CD's themselves will probably die long before I ever get bored of playing those great classic games like IS2, BM, HS and WTR. Hell, even the linear FMV and adventure games like Dragon's lair and Myst are fun again if you come back to them after a few years when your memory of the game has faded. But BM, IS2 and the rest have never-ending replayability in my opinion. I still play them at least once every couple weeks. I just played all of them over this past weekend. And I promise you, if I am still alive, and AtariAge still online, come back in another 20 years and I'll still be playing these games and hanging out here (assuming no fall of civilization has occured). Sure, I'll have the latest gaming tech too, as today, but the classics will be in my life until the day I die or the game machines and media crumble to dust.

Edited June 9, 2008 by Gunstar

[Gorf]

The bottom line is there is no shortage becuase the demand is less than supply. That may change if we continue to get more Jaguar CD games. But most people who will buy these new games already have Jaguar CD's. I see no reason to worry about hombrew Jag CD units until the demand is greater than the supply of Jag CD units out there now.

 

 

The trouble is , once you bring about the demand with more CD games of serious quality, you leave out

at least half the Jag base from playing that game. To make a cart and a CD production is just crazy.

Carts are a nightmare, costly and just plain annoying to manufacture, especially by hand.

 

The carts are going to be awfully expensive in comparison to a CD. like almost triple in cost. I would love

to sell our games between $25 and 35 dollars on disc but then other Jag fans are SOL.

 

Again, we need a creative hardware guru to come up with an ATAPI IDE interface that ANY Jag fan can use.

This way everyone can play by simply buying a ATAPI compatible IDE CD drive...and screw the CD, go right

for the DVD. Those drives are ridiculous cheap anymore. I could probably figure out a way to do this myself

but I quite sure there aer much more seasoned hardware guys around the Jaguar community that would be

better suited to the task.

 

We would no longer need to release carts and have to charge crazy prices for them and then everyone would

be eligible to play. It would also make the production much less of a hassle and anyone wanting to develope

and release games would have easy access to materials. Disc cases are easy to find and the sleeves can be

done at kinko's or at home if you have a killer printer.

 

However, we would release a CART only game from time to time just because or the cart port being there.

Whats a cart console with out a few carts once in a while?

[BuddyBuddies]

id like my jag cd unit to be able to play blue-ray too!

[Gunstar]

The bottom line is there is no shortage becuase the demand is less than supply. That may change if we continue to get more Jaguar CD games. But most people who will buy these new games already have Jaguar CD's. I see no reason to worry about hombrew Jag CD units until the demand is greater than the supply of Jag CD units out there now.

 

 

The trouble is , once you bring about the demand with more CD games of serious quality, you leave out

at least half the Jag base from playing that game. To make a cart and a CD production is just crazy.

Carts are a nightmare, costly and just plain annoying to manufacture, especially by hand.

 

The carts are going to be awfully expensive in comparison to a CD. like almost triple in cost. I would love

to sell our games between $25 and 35 dollars on disc but then other Jag fans are SOL.

 

Again, we need a creative hardware guru to come up with an ATAPI IDE interface that ANY Jag fan can use.

This way everyone can play by simply buying a ATAPI compatible IDE CD drive...and screw the CD, go right

for the DVD. Those drives are ridiculous cheap anymore. I could probably figure out a way to do this myself

but I quite sure there aer much more seasoned hardware guys around the Jaguar community that would be

better suited to the task.

 

We would no longer need to release carts and have to charge crazy prices for them and then everyone would

be eligible to play. It would also make the production much less of a hassle and anyone wanting to develope

and release games would have easy access to materials. Disc cases are easy to find and the sleeves can be

done at kinko's or at home if you have a killer printer.

 

However, we would release a CART only game from time to time just because or the cart port being there.

Whats a cart console with out a few carts once in a while?

 

That all sounds reasonable, and DVD would be cool, But... I don't like the idea of my Jaguar looking like a hack-job. Remember, your talking about ribbon cable and some generic DVD drive sitting next to the Jag with no case, and then power supply for the DVD drive on top of that, oh, almost forgot to mention the interface device itself most likely sticking out of the cart port(though hopefully it would at least be cased in a Jaguar cartridge case). Plus, then what of the people that still have a Jaguar CD? Two releases? One on Jaguar CD with possibility of multiple discs and then the other in DVD format? Never really utilizing the DVD and just using CD-roms in it anyway just to maintain backward compatibility? Or would this be a "so what if you have a Jaguar CD, you'll have to buy this new hack-job setup if you want the new software only on DVD" situation. If that's so, it better at least work through the Jag CD unit so we don't have to keep switching between the two.

 

I mean, I also know the Jaguar CD units won't last forever, and at some point we probably will need an alternative, so there's that in favor of your argument...

 

But, as you mentioned, don't forget about cartridges completely, and as a matter of fact, I'd really, really, like to see at least one 6MB cartridge released, just because the Jaguar was meant to have them. They will just cost what you have to charge. The 4MB games were always more expensive than the 2MB ones anyway weren't they?

Edited June 11, 2008 by Gunstar

[Gorf]

The DVD would be for data sake. You could make a REALLY big deatailed RPG or adventure

on DVD. It's not just a video device, it is also data storage. Fine then CD even. The interface

would not be something ugly. As far as looks? who the hell cares, as long as it helps get new

decent games. Truth is you can make a nice enough looking case and use the thru cart conector

deal like the CD unit already does. It would not have to be hacked looking. Even a nive square

box that can fit both the interface and the drive that plugs in to the Jaguar just like the CD does.

[Gunstar]

The DVD would be for data sake. You could make a REALLY big deatailed RPG or adventure

on DVD. It's not just a video device, it is also data storage. Fine then CD even. The interface

would not be something ugly. As far as looks? who the hell cares, as long as it helps get new

decent games. Truth is you can make a nice enough looking case and use the thru cart conector

deal like the CD unit already does. It would not have to be hacked looking. Even a nive square

box that can fit both the interface and the drive that plugs in to the Jaguar just like the CD does.

 

There hasn't even been a game that uses up an entire CD yet, let alone more than one. I'll check back in 20 years to see if anyone has made that huge Jaguar DVD RPG yet. But if it was a professional looking device that plugged into the Jag just like the Jag CD unit, that would be a different story, regardless of if a game would ever be made that actually required the extra DVD storage. Let's just start with actually getting some of these cart and CD Jag games that have been in development by you guys and others for years out first, then go from there. Becuase right now, I doubt too many people would care about a DVD add-on for the same reason there isn't a demand for Jaguar CD players right now; apparently not enough software for the expense for many people.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Gunstar

[Pete5125]

I doubt too many people would care about a DVD add-on for the same reason there isn't a demand for Jaguar CD players right now; apparently not enough software for the expense for many people.

....

Yeah, I have to agree myself I'm a collector and have most of the Jag games out their, but even I have a price range if I'm going to have to spend $40+ for a game including shipping then it has to be good. So far few of the Jag games qualify for that. With the exception of Protector SE. Most Jag games are mediocure or a little bit better than that. Jag CD games are no exception, the unit will run you $100+ for about 4 good games and some home brews that are difficult to download (for people like me). Myself I rarely play The Jag CD, I find having to put a memory cart then the game in and hope that I didn't disslodge the CD unit from the base in any way to play a game is not worth it. Also, while I use to like flight games, I find myself more into Puzzle games (tetris, lemmings, even Zoop)and fighters. Maybe in my old age my attention span is dead, you work crazy hours, and I just want fun Atari2600 games w/ descent grafix.

 

I guess my point is that I lucked out got the Jag/Jag CD unit for a good price and got my original batch of CD games for like a couple bucks a piece. It got me back into retro gaming, and I did it because the year or so when I use to geek out in college about video games, and each 1 of my roomates had a different system 3DO vs Jag vs Sega Gen/CD. We had a good time. Then Atari of course went under 2 yrs. in...The new grand Daddy was a PS1 and the games it had was no better then my Jag (the roomate that got it had 2 games ZOOP and Theme Park)...Then Teken and MK3 came out and it was odvious the Jag was over.

 

It hurt nobody ever thought Atari would be # 1 We thought that would be Sega Saturn, or #2 figured Nintendo Ultra64 would get that honor

 

Atari threw in the towel and the CD unit was suppose to make it where the cast to make a game was so low that even if they were in 4th, 5th place then they could continue making game that cost them less using a 64 bit CD system that should of crushed anythig out at the moment..but never got close ot the hype

[ovalbugmann]

Myself I rarely play The Jag CD, I find having to put a memory cart then the game in and hope that I didn't disslodge the CD unit from the base in any way to play a game is not worth it.

 

Just say you don't care for the JagCD player dude, (i.e. - the Jagcd player just sucks, it has no good games, is quite finicky, and doesn't play downloaded and burned games with ease, is a ripoff, etc.) you don't have to make lame justification excuses like this to us, people should respect your honest opinion and it's not expected to always fall in line with ours. Just putting a cart in it, it should be impossible dislodge it, your pressing down and the clip is up front holding it down. Clean your all connections including your riser card, check for anything loose.

 

Atari threw in the towel and the CD unit was suppose to make it where the cost to make a game was so low that even if they were in 4th, 5th place then they could continue making game that cost them less using a 64 bit CD system that should of crushed anything out at that moment..but never got close to the hype.

 

Atari was an real innovator, and although the CD medium is cheaper to distribute games on than carts, that's not why they brought it out. They knew that CDs have several advantages over carts such as more storage to run bigger, more elaborate programs with FMV cutscenes, more levels, multiple disc spanned epics, ability to distribute demos, etc. So they were well aware that optical media was the format of the future, the industry had outgrown expensive, limited capacity cartridges. Atari did a good job in making loading times minimal with the JagCD, unlike many other platforms, and the JagCD enabled the system to be termed a "multimedia" system with things like a planned MPEG video decoder cart & Kodak photo cart that both were to utilize discs in the Jag CD to hold the pics or vids. Things like CD+G music Cds-Karoake, Jeff Minters VLM, Cinepak video decompression, regular audio CD playback, etc are all possible because of optical mediums.

[Gorf]

There hasn't even been a game that uses up an entire CD yet, let alone more than one. I'll check back in 20 years to see if anyone has made that huge Jaguar DVD RPG yet. But if it was a professional looking device that plugged into the Jag just like the Jag CD unit, that would be a different story, regardless of if a game would ever be made that actually required the extra DVD storage. Let's just start with actually getting some of these cart and CD Jag games that have been in development by you guys and others for years out first, then go from there. Becuase right now, I doubt too many people would care about a DVD add-on for the same reason there isn't a demand for Jaguar CD players right now; apparently not enough software for the expense for many people.

 

Even if it never uses the whole CD up, DVD's are cheap and they are the latest technology. It is

also faster access by leaps and bounds. Not to mention that ATAPI IDE DVD drives are probably

easier to find than are CD drives anymore. An ATAPI IDE compatible allows both anyway and

developers can make the choice. I'm guessing however that you'd need a license for the ATAPI

IDE. If so, it's probably quite miniscule.

 

For the minute difference in cost between a DVD or CD drive, the DVD would only make sense. The

only thing the Jaguar CD offers outside of the typical features of a PC CD/DVD drive is the VLM,

which has zero to do with the games anyway. I suppose it could be incorporated into the interface

but then you'll probably need permission for that too(unless that can somehow fall under the jag

going PD but that is highly unlikely.)

 

The other issue is that the Jad CD operates like an audio drive in its format but normal Jag games

may still be able to run off of the off the self drive just set to another mode. Most DVD/CD drives have

all these audio/data modes anyway nowadays.

 

The point is, why be short sighted? The interface can be used for CD, but have the ability to go DVD.

Shoot, someone might be able to write an app that actually lets you what DVD on your jag in lower

rez of course but what the hey! Remember, its just part of the fun to wonder about all this stuff.

[ovalbugmann]

id like my jag cd unit to be able to play blue-ray too!

 

I would buy one of those drives in a second! I would like to have my Jaguar CD drive do as many things as possible, and if it played DVDs that would have been great!

 

The Soulstar JagCD is 654MB close to the 700 capacity of CDs (or the 790mb of the JagCD) so the massive storage space and multiple functionality of Digital Versatile Discs would have been welcomed, but it wasn't available in 1995.

[Gorf]

id like my jag cd unit to be able to play blue-ray too!

 

I would buy one of those drives in a second! I would like to have my Jaguar CD drive do as many things as possible, and if it played DVDs that would have been great!

 

The Soulstar JagCD is 654MB close to the 700 capacity of CDs (or the 790mb of the JagCD) so the massive storage space and multiple functionality of Digital Versatile Discs would have been welcomed, but it wasn't available in 1995.

 

 

You wont beable to view a DVD in high rez but I imagine it could be done in

a lower rez format using the data off the DVD. The point being, the cost difference

between CD and DVD is small anymore. Why not just go with the improved tech?

Also again, ATAPI IDE should handle either. The best thing would to make an interface

that can use an IDE drive an operate in the Jag CD format compatible modes, so it

can boot an offical Jag CD disc and still do all the G+ and stuff as well.

[Atari_Owl]

I'm not sure i think another add-on is the answer.

 

Whats needed is a secure and cheap method of delivering memory (as a cart would) directly to a stock Jaguar as part of a single cartridge without being reliant on an additional adapter

[Gorf]

I'm not sure i think another add-on is the answer.

 

Whats needed is a secure and cheap method of delivering memory (as a cart would) directly to a stock Jaguar as part of a single cartridge without being reliant on an additional adapter

 

 

Memory modules of anykind will not be 'cheap'. Not anywhere near as cheap as a blank disc.

You can buy them anywhere, burn them anywhere, package them easily.

 

No current memory module offers this for under $1 or even close.

[Atari_Owl]

I'm not sure i think another add-on is the answer.

 

Whats needed is a secure and cheap method of delivering memory (as a cart would) directly to a stock Jaguar as part of a single cartridge without being reliant on an additional adapter

 

 

Memory modules of anykind will not be 'cheap'. Not anywhere near as cheap as a blank disc.

You can buy them anywhere, burn them anywhere, package them easily.

 

No current memory module offers this for under $1 or even close.

 

Well its a balance isn;'t it.

 

A more expensive medium without the need for an add on which not many people will have - or a very cheap easily copyable medium with the requirements for yet more hardware.

 

I'm not saying i have any answers because i don't but nothings really ideal.

[Gorf]

I'm not sure i think another add-on is the answer.

 

Whats needed is a secure and cheap method of delivering memory (as a cart would) directly to a stock Jaguar as part of a single cartridge without being reliant on an additional adapter

 

 

Memory modules of anykind will not be 'cheap'. Not anywhere near as cheap as a blank disc.

You can buy them anywhere, burn them anywhere, package them easily.

 

No current memory module offers this for under $1 or even close.

 

Well its a balance isn;'t it.

 

A more expensive medium without the need for an add on which not many people will have - or a very cheap easily copyable medium with the requirements for yet more hardware.

 

I'm not saying i have any answers because i don't but nothings really ideal.

 

 

 

 

The interface could offer hardware protection from copying. The developers would be given a key.

[Red_Queen]

Black ICE\White Noise

 

This game looks like it could have passed for shadowrun or even a comic adventure game like Shenmue. One reason to own the Jag I guess considering the lame commercialism in this game.

[Gorf]

Black ICE\White Noise

 

This game looks like it could have passed for shadowrun or even a comic adventure game like Shenmue. One reason to own the Jag I guess considering the lame commercialism in this game.

 

 

Im sure this particular engine could be improved upon as well. It could have been useful early in the Jaguar's

life. The trouble is, Im sure it was a pain to get it this good. Time is of the essence. IT seems too many jag

projects took way to much time. I doubt it will ever happen, but it would be cool to see this finished.

[Tweety]

,braingames, [EDIT] the list is on JSII,however there were rumored to be almost 40 games in the works from Telegames....because a few of them didnt sell good enough they wont release anymore.

Braingames... I found this box picture...

Think we'll never see that one released.

 

BTW, I ordered Breakout 2000 from Telegames, 2 month ago I received this message from them: "Just to update you we are actually having more manufactured right now and these will be in stock shortly - within 10 - 20 days."

I'm still waiting, and I think Songbird Production is also waiting for there back-order.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Tweety