What's so fun about Adventure after beating it?

[NE146]

Yknow.. here's another idea. How about a random Game 1? And by that I mean just the yellow & black castle, and blue maze with random item placement. It doesn't seem like all that great an idea, but heck, why not?

[supercat]

I think he means that when the game started you could enter a number (like 17, for example) and everytime you played game number 17, the objects would be in the same place (except for the ones the bat moved around, of course). If you didn't want to play that particular game any more, just pick a new number and get a new game.

 

Exactly. One problem with adding a timer to a game like 'Adventure' is that if two people play game 3, one will likely get a much easier 'setup' than the other, thus making it impossible to meaningfully compare times.

 

On the other hand, if two players each pick a random two-digit number (e.g. 58 and 23) then both players could try game 5823 and see who manages the better time (add, say, a five-minute penalty for each restart). Neither player would likely have seen that particular game before, so both players would be on equal footing.

[Kittenmommy]

I think he means that when the game started you could enter a number (like 17, for example) and everytime you played game number 17, the objects would be in the same place (except for the ones the bat moved around, of course). If you didn't want to play that particular game any more, just pick a new number and get a new game.

 

That would've been pretty cool. Imagine what the User's Manual would've looked like - it would've been as thick as a phone book!

[accousticguitar]

I don't think they would have listed where the objects were in the different variations. What fun would that be? Just plug in a number, play the game, and find the objects the old fashioned way.

[Kittenmommy]

I don't think they would have listed where the objects were in the different variations. What fun would that be? Just plug in a number, play the game, and find the objects the old fashioned way.

 

Yeah, I figured. I was just being a smartass.

 

PS. What's NE146's avatar supposed to be doing? It looks vaguely obscene!

Edited June 11, 2008 by Kittenmommy

[Nukey Shay]

http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html...twareLabelID=25

[Kittenmommy]

http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html...twareLabelID=25

 

Aahhh hahaha hahahaha!

 

This probably wouldn't be so amusing to me if I'd actually had any sleep last night.

[+Atari_Warlord]

Here is my take on why Adventure is fun. Imagination!

 

I get the exact same pleasure out of playing Grand Theft Auto IV as I do out of Adventure. Running around and doing random things and making up my own stories. Some people prefer games that are less open, and that is fine. Growing up with very few entertainment options, I learned to make my own fun, and I still enjoy it!

[Skylark68]

In game 3 could the gold key actually be in the gold castle (therefore not allowing the player to win)? I've heard this was possible, but I never encountered it.

 

Adventure was a fabulous game for its time and is still fun to play to this day. The minimal graphics allow your imagination to soar.

[Nukey Shay]

During randomization, all objects are allowed a minimal screen number of #1 (the 3-exit screen area below the yellow castle). All objects begin at their game2 assigned locations prior to being shuffled.

 

Highest possible random screen numbers allowed by randomization:

 

Yellow key : 29 (anywhere in the kingdom and castles)

 

White key : 22 (inside yellow/black castles or in the rest of the kingdom -except- the black castle's entry room or a couple of rooms near the catacombs)

 

Black key : 18 (inside the yellow castle, 2 screens of the white castle, or in most of the rest of the kingdom)

 

 

 

An unfinishable game would therefore either be where...

 

The Black key is inside the yellow castle, the white key is inside the black castle, AND the yellow key is inside the white castle...e.g. all 3 keys in alternate castles.

 

...or...

 

The Black key is inside the white castle and the white key is inside the black castle.

 

...or...

 

The yellow key is in it's own castle.

 

 

The keys are arranged sequentially in ram, making the former 2 scenarios beyond the realm of probability AFAIK. But the latter problem has no test done should it occur. This problem could have easily been avoided by swapping data for screen #1 and screen #18...and making the lower boundry for the yellow key to be screen #2. Or using a different setup for the pseudo-random "seed" (it currently just uses the framecounter added to itself for each pass). IIRC, this variable allows for 18 possible arrangements...and the glitched game just happens to be one of them.

 

 

You can use tilde (~) in Stella to examine the room numbers chosen for the objects. Here's a list of the objects mapped to ram:

 

Dot = $A1 (not randomized)

Red dragon = $A4

Yellow dragon = $A9

Green dragon = $AE

Magnet = $B3

Sword = $B6

Chalise = $B9

Bridge = $BC

Yellow key = $BF

White key = $C2

Black key = $C5

Bat = $CB

 

In Stella, you could force a value of $11 to the above ram locations to make the given object "warp" to the yellow castle's courtyard should you experience the glitch in emulation.

[accousticguitar]

(it currently just uses the framecounter added to itself for each pass).

Does this mean that after the first object is placed the next object will always be in the same place? In other words, every time the first object is placed in room 5, will the second object always be placed in room 14 and the third object always be placed in room 29 and so on? (I'm just throwing numbers out there.) If that were the case you could only have as many variations of object placement as there are places for the first object.

[Nukey Shay]

The program has no provision for altering the sequence of "random" numbers chosen...other than trying again when the sum would be beyond the range of the object - also an unchanging value. In addition, the upper "bits" are trimmed off prior to checking the value (so it automatically falls within the total number of game screens). This is not to say that if X object is in a certian room that Y object will be in a specific room (because the "random" sequence could have ended up there in more than one instance - depending on the value of the initial seed). But there is a finite number of different setups that the "random" sequence will generate, according to the programmer himself:

 

 

Question: At the time of release, what was so innovative about Adventure?

Random placement of objects at the start of the game. I did this only in level 3, the final level. The first level was intended to be easy, so people could get started. Level 2 was hard, but it had the same object placement every time you played it. I used the random object placement in level 3 for variety. I didn't want it to be like a puzzle, where once you've solved it, it's not very interesting to do it again, and I wanted to avoid that. The bat was also added as a confusion factor, to move objects around a bit, so that the game wasn't too predictable. (I did make a mistake in my random object placement code, and there is a 1 in 18 chance that the yellow key will start out in the yellow castle, making the game unwinnable. This only happens in level 3.)

 

http://www.gooddealgames.com/interviews/in...n_Robinett.html

 

 

NOTE: I made a mistake in the previous post. It's not necessarily only 18 setups (2 games out of 36 would still be a 1:18 ratio). I don't think that it's above 32 tho...that's the greatest number of initial seed values that can exist using only 5 bits.

[128bytes]

I don't think they would have listed where the objects were in the different variations. What fun would that be? Just plug in a number, play the game, and find the objects the old fashioned way.

 

Yeah, I figured. I was just being a smartass.

 

PS. What's NE146's avatar supposed to be doing? It looks vaguely obscene!

 

Better not say his username out loud, speaking the names of each digit one at a time

[slosu]

The question should be What's so fun about SUPERMAN after beating it?

 

Adventure rules! I still play it everyonce in a while.

[Kittenmommy]

The yellow key is in it's own castle.

 

I don't know, I don't think that's possible. If the yellow key were inside its own castle, wouldn't the castle's drawbridge be open?

 

Edit:

Question: At the time of release, what was so innovative about Adventure?

Random placement of objects at the start of the game. I did this only in level 3, the final level. The first level was intended to be easy, so people could get started. Level 2 was hard, but it had the same object placement every time you played it. I used the random object placement in level 3 for variety. I didn't want it to be like a puzzle, where once you've solved it, it's not very interesting to do it again, and I wanted to avoid that. The bat was also added as a confusion factor, to move objects around a bit, so that the game wasn't too predictable. (I did make a mistake in my random object placement code, and there is a 1 in 18 chance that the yellow key will start out in the yellow castle, making the game unwinnable. This only happens in level 3.)

 

Oops! I should've read ahead. My bad!

 

I've encountered games where the black key was in the yellow castle and the yellow key was in the black castle. I figured it out by process of elimination and by searching every screen of the "invisible" maze with the magnet in tow. That was a bummer!

I don't think they would have listed where the objects were in the different variations. What fun would that be? Just plug in a number, play the game, and find the objects the old fashioned way.

 

Yeah, I figured. I was just being a smartass.

 

PS. What's NE146's avatar supposed to be doing? It looks vaguely obscene!

 

Better not say his username out loud, speaking the names of each digit one at a time

 

*groan*

Edited June 11, 2008 by Kittenmommy

[Nukey Shay]

I don't know, I don't think that's possible. If the yellow key were inside its own castle, wouldn't the castle's drawbridge be open?

The corresponding key needs to hit the gate for it to open up. By default, all of the gates are initially closed. You can also lock a key inside it's own castle by dropping it on the gate area as the gate is closing, and it will "swallow it up"...making it impossible to retrieve the key. With only 1 exception**, there is no way for you, the bat, or dragons to enter or leave a castle except through the gate. If the player sprite hits a closing gate tho, it will automatically return to it's open position.

 

** The exception is in game #1. Moving sideways from the black castle courtyard places you in the upper room inside (this room is part of the catacombs in games 2/3). Leaving sideways from that room puts you in the blue maze. Naturally, this does not help you in game #1, because the bridge does not allow you to move sideways through walls and the bat is locked up in the inaccessible white castle (the red dragon and white key are also located down there). However, this does not prevent dragons from getting into there in game #1

 

 

One of the first hacks that I did was remove the playfield collisions so that I could explore the game's pathways. But the game's directional map would need to be altered in order to visit the catacombs/white castle portion in game #1.

[flammingcowz]

I just beat adventure on game 2 for the first time...took me about 30 minutes and i'm going to go play game 3 right now.

[Kittenmommy]

One of the first hacks that I did was remove the playfield collisions so that I could explore the game's pathways. But the game's directional map would need to be altered in order to visit the catacombs/white castle portion in game #1.

 

I'm downloading Stella now so I can try your hack.

 

There are undocumented movements that are possible in the unhacked game too. If you take the bridge into the programmer's room and put it up at the top where the credit disappears into a doorway, you can go through the doorway and end up in the blue labyrinth! There are other ones that I can't remember off the top of my head, but I know my friends and I found a bunch of them just by messing around. If I remember any more, I'll post them (though you probably know them already!).

 

Edit: Just tried your hack. It's both confusing and awesome, and it really shows how the rooms are mapped out/connected in ways one wouldn't think they are. You can't get into the programmer's room via your hack, can you? Or maybe I just haven't played around with it enough yet.

Edited June 12, 2008 by Kittenmommy

[supercat]

You can't get into the programmer's room via your hack, can you? Or maybe I just haven't played around with it enough yet. [/color]

 

The room below the gold castle has its right wall mapped back to the left unless the dot is missing from the room where it starts. It is not necessary for the dot to be in the room below the gold castle, but it must have been moved out of its starting room.

[Kittenmommy]

You can't get into the programmer's room via your hack, can you? Or maybe I just haven't played around with it enough yet. [/color]

 

The room below the gold castle has its right wall mapped back to the left unless the dot is missing from the room where it starts. It is not necessary for the dot to be in the room below the gold castle, but it must have been moved out of its starting room.

 

So you do have to go get the dot to access the room, rather than being able to walk right in via another room. Got it.

[Nukey Shay]

It just has to be moved out of it's starting screen. There's a number of questions that need to fail for the room to appear onscreen as a sprite moves to the right:

 

Moving the player sprite?

Did the sprite reach the right boundry yet?

Is the current room beside the secret room? (room #3)

Is the dot out of it's starting screen? (room #21)

 

If all the above are true, the next screen loaded will be the secret room. (room #30)

 

Note that this should make it impossible for the bat or dragons to enter the secret room on their own, but for some weird reason the first question is occasionally ignored (was this glitch ever figured out?).

 

 

 

The panel collision with the player is also given a test (if the one of the 2 objects to print onscreen is the dot, the game ignores player collisions with the "missile1" panel). When more than 2 objects are on a screen the display is not always printing the dot, so player movement is still blocked on frames that aren't printing the dot object.

The 2 missile sprites share the same colors as the 8-bit sprite objects, which is why they change color as objects are moved to the same rooms.

 

While it's possible to move around the missile panel in this hack (in the regular game too...by "walking" the bridge up or down into the panel's screen, or holding a magnet to the side so that it drags the bridge downward from the blue maze), the previous routine that manually sets the secret room would still fail if the dot is in it's starting screen.

Edited June 12, 2008 by Nukey Shay

[Chris++]

I've never played that hack. I didn't even know it existed. I am SO impressed. I must rhapsodize in the actual thread about it.

[Kittenmommy]

I've never played that hack. I didn't even know it existed. I am SO impressed. I must rhapsodize in the actual thread about it.

 

Your avatar made me smile!

[Kittenmommy]

It just has to be moved out of it's starting screen. There's a number of questions that need to fail for the room to appear onscreen as a sprite moves to the right:

 

Moving the player sprite?

Did the sprite reach the right boundry yet?

Is the current room beside the secret room? (room #3)

Is the dot out of it's starting screen? (room #21)

 

If all the above are true, the next screen loaded will be the secret room. (room #30)

 

Note that this should make it impossible for the bat or dragons to enter the secret room on their own, but for some weird reason the first question is occasionally ignored (was this glitch ever figured out?).

 

 

 

The panel collision with the player is also given a test (if the one of the 2 objects to print onscreen is the dot, the game ignores player collisions with the "missile1" panel). When more than 2 objects are on a screen the display is not always printing the dot, so player movement is still blocked on frames that aren't printing the dot object.

The 2 missile sprites share the same colors as the 8-bit sprite objects, which is why they change color as objects are moved to the same rooms.

 

While it's possible to move around the missile panel in this hack (in the regular game too...by "walking" the bridge up or down into the panel's screen, or holding a magnet to the side so that it drags the bridge downward from the blue maze), the previous routine that manually sets the secret room would still fail if the dot is in it's starting screen.

 

This is all so interesting that it makes me wish I understood the programming language. I am hopeless at math and logic, so I FAIL at computer programming!

 

I'm pretty certain I've had a dragon follow me into the programmer's room before, but I can't remember for sure. I don't think I ever saw the bat in there, though.

[Chris++]

Thanks. Joe made it look all shiny for me a few years back. (It's good luck to make a cat smile, right?)

 

I think the only way to get a dragon into the Secret Message Room (I'm stickin' to the 1982 semantics, dammit) is to subject it to a "bug" that makes it wrap funny. Yeah...lucid explanation, isn't it?