Swordquest Airworld Screenshots Posted

[Dutchman2000]

Here is Jeremy's original post from about 2 years ago, his Q and A:

 

I was alerted to this website by a concerned collector. I will try to answer your questions at this time, if you have any others please post them here.

 

"Is this serious or a hoax?"

 

Airworld does exist, I own a copy, and it is "authentic". I put the word authentic in quotation for several reasons. A)The offical copy was never released to the public, because B) It was never officially completed. C) While it was programmed by Atari programmers, foremost and including Todd Frye, it was never licensed or distributed for use. D)The game does not have the dancing colors the other swordquest games do on the setup screen (screen you see when you first turn the console on). It has what appears to be a man on a flying horse, a start command, and the typical atari trademark logo.

 

(Editor's note) Where is this START command and Atari Fuji Logo on the title screen he submitted?

 

"Is that a real picture?"

 

Since most of the questions center around the picture in the auction, I will tell you that I do not have a digital camera or a scanner, I edited a prescanned photo to (exactly?) resemble the copy I have. Close inspection by those of you with a good monitor or photo editing program will detect the variations.

 

"How did you get this cartridge?"

 

I purchased it a while back from a former Atari employee.

 

"How do you know there are only two?"

 

This is the only question I am not sure how to answer. When I acquired it the vendor told me there were only two, and I believed him. I suspect Mr. Frye or one of his coworkers at the time has the other.

 

"Do you have the comic book? Did it come in a box?"

 

No, no.

"Why did you stop the Auction?"

 

I am not a collector, I knew the item was valuable but not to the extent at which bids escalated. I would like to hold on to it for a while now and do something with it. I also received many inflammatory emails concerning the auction which I could have done without.

 

"Would you be willing to create a ROM dump with the cartridge"

Absolutely. Anyone with information on how to do this with an atari 2600 cartridge is welcome. I only insist it be free to the internet community and immune from capitalistic gain in any form.

 

"Would you be willing to create more cartridges from the original?"

 

No. While I would like to, those with copies would be tempted to create more copies and sell.

 

 

"Can you post a screenshot?"

Screenshots will be available soon. Also pictures of the cartridge itself. I am currently looking for a digital camera for this purpose, if you have a lead, email me.

 

As a footnote, I would like to add that the recent sequence of events has lifted my spirits quite a bit (despite the rash influx of derogatory email!), and I am building a website entirely dedicated to the Atari 2600 Swordquest series. It will include information, screenshots, history, and walkthroughs of Earthworld, Fireworld, Waterworld, and the talked-about Airworld.

I will post the URL on this website when it is ready.

 

None of this came to pass. All of us who contacted him regarding it where either ignored completely or he told us "I think it's a fake".

[Scott Stilphen]

I've got to agree with A2L, but there does have to be some form of open air discussion in order to reveal/confirm the proto.  It's a double-edged sword that we have to deal with.  

 

 

You're right. There are still a few 'holy grails' out there, such as Airworld, that (if found) would be worth some serious $. I think we all know now that some people will try their best to take advantage of that fact. This was a good example of how not to do fake screen shots, but you can see how he was testing the water by having us look at it before it went to Ebay (again). Chances are if the screen shots were done right, someone could have stood to lose a lot of money.

 

Personally, if I was prepared to bid on something like a real Airworld proto, I would want the chance to at least see video of the game being played, if not the opportunity to play it in person or examine the binary file of it. Perhaps the best solution to that problem would be to make the ROM available before the sale, since screen shots alone are no longer enough. Albert touched on this before and I agree - having the ROM available does not affect the value of the original prototype, and that's been proven more than once.

[King Atari]

Hey look! I actually have the REAL Airworld proto, and it's about as credible as this guy's! Anyone want to trade?

 

But seriously, this guy is so full of crap I'm astonished. I'm the first to admit I have no idea about all the pixel stuff you guys are talking about, but just in this guy's answers it's obvious he's lying. And his answer about Infogames coming down on him is idiotic.

 

On a positive note, this guy has made me appreciate my Earthworld and Fireworld cartridges more, and he's made me want Waterworld even more than I already did. He's also made me all the more excited about the upcoming modern Airworld, which I've long been waiting for.

 

And finally, I'm proud to be part of the AA community, the way you people figured this out so quick is amazing. You guys rock.

[oesii]

On a positive note, this guy has made me appreciate my Earthworld and Fireworld cartridges more, and he's made me want Waterworld even more than I already did. He's also made me all the more excited about the upcoming modern Airworld, which I've long been waiting for..

 

that's funny, I also spent more than a few minutes playing the Waterworld game on an emulator yesterday because of all the talk

[Tempest]

Out of the three, Waterworld is the best. It's actually almost fun to play. Maybe it's the relaxing blue color scheme (as compared to Fireworlds nasty red and orange), the fact that the sound effects are pleasent to listen to. Or maybe I'm on crack because no one in his right mind would want to play a SwordQuest game...

 

Tempest

[NE146]

Out of the three, Waterworld is the best.  It's actually almost fun to play.  Maybe it's the relaxing blue color scheme (as compared to Fireworlds nasty red and orange), the fact that the sound effects are pleasent to listen to.  Or maybe I'm on crack because no one in his right mind would want to play a SwordQuest game...

Yes, you guys are on crack.. Yes it's been said countless times before by me and everyone else... but let no one doubt that the Swordquest games are the STINKIEST there's ever been. Anyone who criticizes ET's "fall in pits" gameplay should spend a couple of hours immersed in Swordquests "drop obscure items in rooms" gameplay and they'd soon see the light. Obviously the only reason the proto gets so much attention is because of the rarity and historical value... cuz it sure aint the game let me tell ya.

 

Or wait.. maybe since it's incomplete, it's more fun! wooot! j/k

 

 

[RCorcoran]

IMHO, better SQ than ET...

[+Cafeman]

I agree that those games are no fun to play. I thought it was just me. The concept is great, though.

 

Anyway, Dutchman and team, please omit the 'stinky' as you cook up the REAL Swordquest Airworld.

[Warren]

Airworld does exist... The game does not have the dancing colors the other swordquest games do on the setup screen (screen you see when you first turn the console on). It has what appears to be a man on a flying horse, a start command, and the typical atari trademark logo.  

Then I guess I know what that mislabeled Pac-Man cart is... It even has the "Start" command that seems so familiar somehow....

[Chris++]

(Flexure/Jeremy gets hard at work learning Stella ML...)

 

 

CF

[Snider-man]

Here's something to ponder: if Thomas, Manuel, or other talented 2600 programmer was to "turn to the dark side," do you think they'd be able to cobble together a half-way accurate fake proto and pass it off as the real thing?

 

Think about it: take a long-assumed-lost proto like Airworld (or any other game actually), and research its proposed gameplay. Pop together just enough code to make it work as originally discussed (only about 20%-30% complete). You'd have to find an older EPROM to burn it on, but I think that could be done. Then solder it on an older board (taking care to "age" the solder) and toss it in a cart case. maybe slap on a typewritten "SQ 4" label for good measure.

 

So, who here thinks it could actually be done correctly? It's an interesting puzzle.

[Chris++]

An excellent point -- But would it matter? If the fake proto was so successfully contrived that it passed any test granted by the impeccable eyes of the Atari Age masters, then the buyer would think he had a real-life collectible from back in the '80s. His enjoyment and pleasure at obtaining and harboring the item would be no different either way.

 

After all, for what reason do people collect/play than for pleasure? Certainly not some superficial sense of elitism or importance, I hope!

 

Even THEN, nobody, including the new owner, would be the wiser -- so I ask again, would it matter? An intriguing thought, isn't it!

 

It reminds me of the old joke:

 

Woman 1: My husband thinks he's a chicken.

 

Woman 2: That's terrible! Have you taken him to a shrink?

 

Woman 1: Well, I would, but all the free eggs come in handy.

 

 

 

CF

[Snider-man]

Ah yes! You bring up an interesting point Chris! However, *my* point was that - with enough talent and time (and in complete secrecy), is it possible fopr someone to effectively fake a legendary piece of Atari history? Sure, people should collect for the "enjoyment" of it. But, if someone pays multiple thousands of dollars for a proto and then finds out that it was $15 in spare parts cobbled together in someone's basement, isn't he entitled to go mad with rage over this deceit?

 

Along those same lines, it'd be like buying a Crazy Climber cart for $100, then finding out it was a Hozer copy - available for $20. Same game, but not the "same." Get me?

[Chris++]

Absolutely. On the one hand, if NOBODY ever found out, then the buyer's bliss would carry on uninhibited. However, if the fake was found out, then yes, the poor dope who dropped the price of a car would be more than entitled to fly into a rage!

 

 

Me again

 

 

(Closely inspecting, in a new light, the Super Sandwich Breakout loaner I purchased from Moycon for $2K...)

[Albert]

Here's something to ponder: if Thomas, Manuel, or other talented 2600 programmer was to "turn to the dark side," do you think they'd be able to cobble together a half-way accurate fake proto and pass it off as the real thing?

 

Think about it: take a long-assumed-lost proto like Airworld (or any other game actually), and research its proposed gameplay. Pop together just enough code to make it work as originally discussed (only about 20%-30% complete). You'd have to find an older EPROM to burn it on, but I think that could be done. Then solder it on an older board (taking care to "age" the solder) and toss it in a cart case. maybe slap on a typewritten "SQ 4" label for good measure.

 

So, who here thinks it could actually be done correctly? It's an interesting puzzle.

 

Sure, this can be done. In the case of Airworld, since Tod Frye is willing to publically comment on it, we'll know whether or not it's a fake. In terms of the screenshots that Flexured mocked up, he'll never be able to reproduce them exactly, due to the limitations of the 2600. I would not be surprised if he comes back in six months, or a year, or two years and suddenly announces that he (finally) had the proto dumped.

 

Personally if I had the mad 2600 skillz (which I hope to acquire to so I can do my own games), I'd spend them doing original titles rather than trying to dupe the community at large. But as has been demonstrated repeatedly, some people crave attention and will do anything to get it, even at the expense of their credibility. I don't think we're in danger of seeing a rash of fake 2600 protos flooding the scene, though. Programming the 2600 is *hard*, and most of the people doing it are in it because they enjoy creating games for others to enjoy (which is a better way to get attention if that's what you want, in my opinion).

 

..Al

[Snider-man]

Absolutely and I agree on all above accounts. It was a question of "possiblity."

 

But, if a programmer *was* able to pull together such a dupe, it'd be a pain because 1. he could NEVER tell a soul what he was able to do and 2. he'd never see another dime from the "proto" after that initial sale. I think Albert's correct in that most programmers want to make something new that they can 1. brag about and 2. sell/produce/ or distribute in mass quantities to show what they've done.

 

Also, the "fake proto" angle isn't as lucrative in the long run. Let's say you make a Airworld proto. You sell it - one time only - and make $3,000. And you can't tell a soul. And, if the buyer wants to dump it and sell reproductions (Snow White, Combat II, Elevator Action, etc.) you won't see any of that lucre either.

 

Now, let's say you make an original work. You make up 100 copies and sell 'em for $30 a pop. There's that same $3,000, though it took you longer. However, you can make up more and sell those. You can program another game and sell that, riding on the reputation you garnered from your first game. You could even just turn the reins over to a distributor like Hozer and get the occassional royalty check without lifting a finger.

 

It seems like a no-brainer to me. But it's an interesting scenario.

[Scott Stilphen]

In this case, we were able to contact Tod Frye (thanks John), so the chance of a good Airworld fake getting past anyone now is about nil. As for any other potential protos out there that could be faked, maybe we should make a list. The good thing is there probably isn't that many titles that would be as valuable as Airworld (which IMHO is at the top of that list). I think it would be harder (and less valuable) to pass off something 'original', rather than say modifying an existing proto (making it seem more complete, for example). Something like the Hulk (of which we know little about) would be one such title now (new movie coming out, comics are hot again, etc.). As I mentioned, screen shots should not be enough if someone is willing to spend $$$ on a proto based on just that, but if you are, it's your risk.

[Turnspike]

I avoided reading this thread because the *world series really lacks in playability. I passed on the topic even tho it stayed active for so long. After catching up on my reading here, I have got to say this is the single most interesting thread I have yet to read at AtariAge. The lesson to be leaned here is there is no substitute for knowlege.

[Jeffy Arensmeyer]

 

Let's not all be blinded by our obsessions. We luuuv Atari and Atari related products. And it's like someone slapping our Momma when something like this comes along, but the fact is that greed is a powerful determinate.

 

Think about this...

Creating your own game takes weeks and months, if not years. Once created, you now have several choices. You can scour the earth for cartridge cases, buy all of the supplies required and assemble dozens of games yourself. This is at least several days and weeks in the making. Or you can sub-contract Hozer to make the games for you, at a nominal fee.

 

You now have a lot of time and possibly money invested. Once more games are required, you have to do it all again (less the programming time).

 

To fake up screenshots, snatch the label off of an old Combat, research your alibi on the Internet and then present the whole wad to be graded by AtariAge alumni

 

Now, this is for everyone that has had a complaint against eBay...

How hard is it to get your money back once you've been screwed by a seller on Ebay.? It sounds way too common and nearly impossible to resolve.

 

Is it easier to get a paper route, work hard for weeks and buy the pair of new roller skates for yourself or steal roller skates that are left in the park?

 

ò¿ó                

 

[chromizone]

hey i dont know if im correct in saying at the beggining of THIS post when he gave us the heads up that it was going back only he said his borther gave it to him and his brother got i off an atari employee NOT THAT HE BOUGHT IT HIMSELF whats up wih that man this IS SO A HOAX!!!!!!!!!!!

[chromizone]

oops its not in this post or in the other one but i remember him saying he got it from his bro AM i right or have i gone crazy?

[oesii]

oops its not in this post or in the other one but i remember him saying he got it from his bro AM i right or have i gone crazy?

 

you haven't gone crazy yet. His story has changed a little bit in the 2 years. He originally stated that bought from an atari employee and recently he claimed to have gotten it from his brother who knew an atari employee. It's in this thread:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.p...ghlight=#124664

[chromizone]

MOO EWW A HA HA HA (<-- evil laugh) YES I AM CORRECT hey dude sort out your shit dump a rom.. throw some pics of u playing it up... do something or crawl back into the hole u came from cause this is now behond ridiculous

[Atari2600Lives]

I know most of you think the Swordquest series suck ....but..I have fond memories of getting the game and me and my buddy playing into the wee hours of the night.

I think it was the excitement that came with it....the money and prizes was this cool motivator that made you forget the sucky gameplay and just made you buckle down and figure out clues and tricks....the game did not withstand the test of time but I do have great memories of when it was first released.

 

A quick comment on getting burned on Ebay...I have had over 250 transactions and have never been burned once...so it is not all too common to get burned.

[MagMax667]

I thought from the moment I saw the screenshots that this was a fake. The screens looked too much like Earthworld. Then I thought it might be a hack of EW, but one of those screenshots is from Waterworld.

 

But what really did it for me was the guy on the horse. It looks almost exactly like the Black Riders from the Lord of the Rings proto. Flexured said that the programmer may have "borrowed" it from there. This can't be at all. Atari and Parker Brothers are two different companies. They wouldn't have access to eachother's prototypes.

 

Also, if this was a faked proto, it would have been impossible to have the guy on the horse. At first I thought the fake programmer himself borrowed the black rider. But then I remembered Flexured said he found this proto years ago, and Lord of the Rings was found only last year.